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Jesus Christ Superstar Forum


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1973 vs. 2000 
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JCSTAR...

What you say about Judas is not fact, it is historical supposition. Very little is actually known about the life of Judas Iscariot, and what is known is very likely to refer instead to another Judas, who was also one of Jesus' Apostles.

And while yes, the portrait you have created of Judas is indeed an interesting one, and perfectly viable for use by any actor portraying Judas, to me none of your ideas were conveyed by Pradon. Personally I feel Pradon is a fine actor who was badly directed, and it showed. It was obvious he had issues justifying some of the things he was told to do.

Quote:
I never viewed Pradon's Judas as "evil" or bad." He was simply beating Jesus over the head with his remarks and cynicism. He wqs saying "Listen to me! Now! NOW!! Listen, damn it!"


Well, after viewing him, it would seem that in beating Jesus over the head, any sense of a fully three dimensional person was lost. Also, if the audience is to truly feel for Judas, and appreciate his fall, it is imperative for them to see his relationship with Jesus as a friend. The positive. The love. That has to be apparent, it shouldn't be the audience's responsibility to assume as much. It wasn't apparent with Pradon, from the begining through to the end, it was a constant barrage of either completely in your face aggression, or more restrained, but still fully palpable aggression. There was never any conflict in him, at least none the audience could see, and what use is a conflict or emotion if the audience isn't privy to it?

But beyond Superstar, I think it vital that you should go back and look over your sources of biblical information. Most of the historical facts you stated are most obviously not. Historians assume Judas was from another country and could speak another language, there is no proof...(and how is this relevant to the character in Superstar...because Pradon speaks french?). What is known about his family life is nearly all supposition, there is no historial proof for the majority of it, including his father's crucifixtion, or even his status as a Zealot. The idea that Judas had followed other false messiahs in the past is again preceeded by a "probably" my any historian worth his scratch.

All of your supposition on the inner workings of Judas' mind, while interesting, are not fact to be associated with the "Historical Judas." They are your thoughts on how someone in that situation would feel and thing.

Quote:
Therefore filling Judas with doubt.


How could you, or any historian gain access to this information without interviewing Judas himself...again it is historical guess work, and should not be included with a break down of the "Historical Judas" without some advert of it's true origins.

There is no information, and nor has there ever been any splinter of proof that Judas and Jesus were best friends...Judas was Jesus' apostle, that is all we can say is fact.

It is very well and good to have historical hypothesis and to make educated explorations, but it is unfair to readers, and very inappropriate to present these ideas as fact.

Jesus.


Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:53 pm
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Jesus "pwns".

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Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:56 pm
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CHSIBM!

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And one of the things I liked about JCS was that I could enjoy it without having to descend into a theological debate :roll:

Quite cute point about the sunglasses. Though I don't have those sunglasses but I do have a jacket a bit like Pradon's leather one (it was actually a costume for another show that I....acquired).

I don't think the priests in the 2000 version are all scary and evil (admittedly I still giggle at that scene as with the 1973, but more because I see Michael McCarthy and you just can't find him scary!)

Yes, I think JCS is about showing all these famous religious characters as three-dimensional people, but I honestly don't give a toss about the characters in the 73 version. The 2000 managed that better for me, even though some of the performances weren't up to much in my opinion.

And I think debating what is religious fact in relation to JCS is a bit silly personally.


Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:18 pm
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I cheered when Carter was Crucified.

He can't act. See the Amstetten Video's Crucifixion. That's how it should be done.

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Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:19 pm
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DramaPrincess wrote:
And I think debating what is religious fact in relation to JCS is a bit silly personally.


I was in no way discussing religious or historical fact in the context of Jesus Christ Superstar. I was simply pointing out the flaws in what JCStar submitted so as to avoid confusion and the spread of inaccurate fact.

Jesus


Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:41 pm
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Jesus "pwns" again.


Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:16 am
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OMG JEZUS SO PWNS!!!111!lol

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:53 am
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jcstar wrote:
Jerome Pradon (Judas) is an excellent actor and a brilliant baritone. [...] Yes, he may notr have hit the notes like a Carl Anderson or Tony Vincent, but he is tearing his lungs out to sing the stuff.


To me, this seemed intentional. Jesus is perfection, Judas is flaw. Thus, Jesus should have a fair voice, and Judas should not. This adds to his feeling of inferiority, his respect for Jesus and the difficulty of the betrayal.

Atleast I could never imagine acting his part with a fair, golden voice, after hearing that.


Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:28 am
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Jesus wrote:
JCSTAR...

What you say about Judas is not fact, it is historical supposition. Very little is actually known about the life of Judas Iscariot, and what is known is very likely to refer instead to another Judas, who was also one of Jesus' Apostles.


I should have clarified this, but the books I have read on Judas Iscariot have treated their info as fact.

One book, "The Twelve Apostles" written around the time of JCS, treats Iscariot's origin, life and suicide as fact.

Several other books do as well. Maybe I should have explained that in my post.

Andy.

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Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:00 am
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Quote:
To me, this seemed intentional. Jesus is perfection, Judas is flaw. Thus, Jesus should have a fair voice, and Judas should not. This adds to his feeling of inferiority, his respect for Jesus and the difficulty of the betrayal.

Atleast I could never imagine acting his part with a fair, golden voice, after hearing that.


Well someone missed the point of the show. Jesus isn't perfection in Jesus Christ Superstar. He is seen through Judas' eyes, and as Judas does not see him as being divine in the show, neither should the audience. A perfect Jesus wouldn't begin ranting and raving, demanding things of God, as in Gethsemane. He wouldn't fear his death, because he would know that eternal life awaited for him, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Judas NEEDS to have an outstanding voice, with an unnatural range. The part is written as such. He doesn't have to be note perfect, or have any semblence of technique, but he still needs to have a killer tenor voice. Look at Murray Head, his voice isn't always beautiful, but even when it's not, he's still thrilling to listen to, and he can still sing the role. Pradon didn't have the range or timbre for the role to begin with. Look at Carl Anderson, the man has such a huge range that the role of Judas is, dare I say it, easy for him, vocally, but even so, he still puts his blood sweat and tears into, hits the notes, has this amazingly emotional voice, and sounds like the tearing a lung out onstage. Thats what the role needs.

You can't sit there and have this terribly unpleasant voice blaring at you for two hours, the singer needs to be good enough to sing the role, then add the emotion to his voice. Pradon was and is not a good enough singer to sing the role of Judas. He even admits it. It wasn't some clever directorial choice (Gale Edwards is not clever) but simply bad casting.


Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:13 am
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Yes. In one breath, Pradon admits he's bad for Judas, but in the second, he had the balls to say in another interview that when they first approached him, he thought it was for Jesus, of all roles.

I mean, come on!

(NOTE: The first time they approached him, according to some UK fans who are in the know, was during the Lyceum casting stages when they needed a Judas, and ALW kept him in mind since then.)

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