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Dancing Through Life 
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Tony Winner
Tony Winner

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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
Your use of the term "lyric baritone" calls to mind something about which I've become more and more aware as a singer. I would dissuade folks from using classical / opera terms to describe non classically-trained voices. I know in the past I've used terms like "lyric baritone" or "dramatic tenor" when talking about musical theatre roles, but in retrospect I don't think it's appropriate. Those classifications are opera terms and they speak to a certain type of trained vocal production - specifically singing in legit operas - which is not the same thing as musical theatre singing.

I doubt many people who fancy themselves musical theatre performers have received professional training in legitimate opera techniques - bel canto and all that - singing properly and projecting enough to be heard, unaided by amplification, over an orchestra. Ya know, doing arias and such. Practicing good technique, vocal placement, etc nowadays is not the same thing (though certainly there will be some elements that overlap). Certainly there are contemporary performers who do legitimate opera as well as musical theatre, but very basically it's two distinct kinds of singing.

It's more appropriate IMO when talking about musical theatre to have the following voice types as guidelines:

Bass, Baritone, Tenor, Alto, Mezzo, Soprano

I say guidelines because you're going to have people who sit between these classifications and people who can, using different vocal placements, access notes outside their usual comfortable range. With this in mind, I'd say Fiyero is basically a tenor role, but could be played by a baritone with a comfortable upper range. I can't say concretely "the baritone will have to use his head voice or use his chest voice" because it's going to vary from singer to singer.


Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:56 pm
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Supporting Player
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
I'm not sure if it's inappropriate to use classical terms, many people in musical have studied with classical teacher or at least I have and I find it personally helpful to read terms like "lyric baritone". Anyway I don't mean it as a strict opera terms I mean really only to use it in a colloquial way to describe a baritone who can has a slightly higher tessitura, but someone who would classify themselves as a baritone.

And I would like to say (although it is very nit picky) the singer is a Contralto and the vocal line is Alto.

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Colin Tidwell


Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:24 pm
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Tony Winner
Tony Winner

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:12 am
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
^ Fair enough. Wasn't trying to call you out, just using your post as a springboard for something that I've been thinking about.


Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
Lol no worries.

Anyway, does anyone know what the original key signature is?

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Colin Tidwell


Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:51 pm
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Tony Winner
Tony Winner

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:12 am
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
Starts out in Eb, then modulates to C when Fiyero comes in. Although, if you're thinking about it in minor mode, it starts in Cm then modulates to Am. Actually, ya know what, that's probably what it is. The song definitely has that moody feel.


Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:02 pm
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Young Hoofer
Young Hoofer

Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:34 pm
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
lowlsnail wrote:
Okay now I realize we've actually been saying the same thing just using incompatible language lol. Yes, on a piano when it says C6 and the song is written for a tenor it means C5, that was both our points it seems. And also just a side note a lyric baritone could sing it in chest/mixed but it'd be kind of a struggle.

Yeah, when I said the song goes up to a G5, I meant in the vocal/piano score, it's written as a G5, not that the singer can physically hit that pitch.

Ugh, why is Tenor music not as written like all other voice parts! :x


Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:56 pm
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Young Hoofer
Young Hoofer

Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:34 pm
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
Vichysois wrote:
Your use of the term "lyric baritone" calls to mind something about which I've become more and more aware as a singer. I would dissuade folks from using classical / opera terms to describe non classically-trained voices. I know in the past I've used terms like "lyric baritone" or "dramatic tenor" when talking about musical theatre roles, but in retrospect I don't think it's appropriate. Those classifications are opera terms and they speak to a certain type of trained vocal production - specifically singing in legit operas - which is not the same thing as musical theatre singing.

I doubt many people who fancy themselves musical theatre performers have received professional training in legitimate opera techniques - bel canto and all that - singing properly and projecting enough to be heard, unaided by amplification, over an orchestra. Ya know, doing arias and such. Practicing good technique, vocal placement, etc nowadays is not the same thing (though certainly there will be some elements that overlap). Certainly there are contemporary performers who do legitimate opera as well as musical theatre, but very basically it's two distinct kinds of singing.
I'm not sure about that. Lots of Broadway performers have operatic/classical training. Kristen Chenoweth started as an Opera singer. I've only been taking lessons for 2 years, and my teacher is training me classically, but I have no intention of being an opera singer.

If you can sing classical, you can sing any other style. Just like ballet is the foundation of all dance, even if you have no intention of being a professional ballet dancer.

Although I do agree with you, sub categories of voice fach (types) like lyric, leggiero, coloratura, drammatico, helden, spinto, etc. are irrelevant to musical theatre.


Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:02 pm
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Tony Winner
Tony Winner

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:12 am
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
^Basically, my main point is the final one you made. As for classical being the foundation of singing - yes, I agree. It's where I alluded to opera singing and musical theatre singing having an overlap - proper phonation, breathing, diaphragm use, etc. But opera singing is more than just those foundation techniques.


Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:06 am
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
Well I have to agree with you there, it is the most annoying thing to me when I talk to an opera singer and they say things like there is musical theater and then there's opera which is the CORRECT way to sing. It drives me crazy when opera is a STYLE of singing, so maybe you two are right idk I have found helpful to use those terms but hey I'm pretty new in communicating things to people who really know there stuff.

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Colin Tidwell


Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:29 am
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Post Re: Dancing Through Life
Fiyero27 wrote:
lowlsnail wrote:
Okay now I realize we've actually been saying the same thing just using incompatible language lol. Yes, on a piano when it says C6 and the song is written for a tenor it means C5, that was both our points it seems. And also just a side note a lyric baritone could sing it in chest/mixed but it'd be kind of a struggle.

Yeah, when I said the song goes up to a G5, I meant in the vocal/piano score, it's written as a G5, not that the singer can physically hit that pitch.

Ugh, why is Tenor music not as written like all other voice parts! :x


I know!!! Curse them

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Colin Tidwell


Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:06 pm
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