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One thing to remember....
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Author:  Profetikus [ Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

I agree with Hans, there is rules on how to compose and to make a story work.

BUT youll have a great deal off freedoom within thoose rules.

Author:  Hans [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

Profetikus wrote:
BUT youll have a great deal off freedoom within thoose rules.


Naturally Sondheim touches this topic in the Hat, too ;)

In his opinion (and I agree), it's more productive/rewarding working within restrictions. When possibilities are infinite, one gets paralysed (I can't find the exact quote right now, I'm afraid). Stephen Fry says something similar in his wonderful book on poetry, The Road Less Travelled: "Genuine feeling that isn't pressed into some sort of shape is a tantrum or a sentimental mess".

I'm not sure if it is universal, but personally, I get more pleasure from reading a tightly composed sonnet than free verse. I think it's because of the effort putting into making it appearing effortless, which moves me.

Author:  Vichysois [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

Hans wrote:
I'm not sure if it is universal, but personally, I get more pleasure from reading a tightly composed sonnet than free verse. I think it's because of the effort putting into making it appearing effortless, which moves me.


This.


I do think that it is possible to have objective standards when evaluating things. There can be a musical that is technically well-written, well-structured, whatever, but you can personally not care for it. Conversely, you can have a musical that is poorly-written, poorly-structured, but you could enjoy it a lot. This is the element of personal taste.

As for whether Wicked is a paragon of all that musical theatre can be - no, it's not. I happen to enjoy the show but I don't delude myself on thinking it's intellectually/artistically grandiose.

As an analogy, I enjoy eating at the Olive Garden. But I don't delude myself that it is in any way "authentic" Italian cooking. And I know objectively speaking it is not a quality establishment.

Author:  elphieglinda16 [ Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

Vichysois wrote:
Hans wrote:
I'm not sure if it is universal, but personally, I get more pleasure from reading a tightly composed sonnet than free verse. I think it's because of the effort putting into making it appearing effortless, which moves me.


This.


I do think that it is possible to have objective standards when evaluating things. There can be a musical that is technically well-written, well-structured, whatever, but you can personally not care for it. Conversely, you can have a musical that is poorly-written, poorly-structured, but you could enjoy it a lot. This is the element of personal taste.

As for whether Wicked is a paragon of all that musical theatre can be - no, it's not. I happen to enjoy the show but I don't delude myself on thinking it's intellectually/artistically grandiose.

As an analogy, I enjoy eating at the Olive Garden. But I don't delude myself that it is in any way "authentic" Italian cooking. And I know objectively speaking it is not a quality establishment.


:)

Author:  ActingDude17 [ Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

elphieglinda16 wrote:
Vichysois wrote:
Hans wrote:
I'm not sure if it is universal, but personally, I get more pleasure from reading a tightly composed sonnet than free verse. I think it's because of the effort putting into making it appearing effortless, which moves me.


This.


I do think that it is possible to have objective standards when evaluating things. There can be a musical that is technically well-written, well-structured, whatever, but you can personally not care for it. Conversely, you can have a musical that is poorly-written, poorly-structured, but you could enjoy it a lot. This is the element of personal taste.

As for whether Wicked is a paragon of all that musical theatre can be - no, it's not. I happen to enjoy the show but I don't delude myself on thinking it's intellectually/artistically grandiose.

As an analogy, I enjoy eating at the Olive Garden. But I don't delude myself that it is in any way "authentic" Italian cooking. And I know objectively speaking it is not a quality establishment.


:)


Would you please elaborate, elphie?

Author:  elphieglinda16 [ Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

Sorry. I didn't have time to type a proper reply. My whole life, I've wished my sister would live by this idea and just leave me and my own tastes and opinions alone:

Quote:
I do think that it is possible to have objective standards when evaluating things. There can be a musical that is technically well-written, well-structured, whatever, but you can personally not care for it. Conversely, you can have a musical that is poorly-written, poorly-structured, but you could enjoy it a lot. This is the element of personal taste.



Quote:
As an analogy, I enjoy eating at the Olive Garden. But I don't delude myself that it is in any way "authentic" Italian cooking. And I know objectively speaking it is not a quality establishment.


I also like the analogy you used here. Seriously, I am tired of people trying to sway my opinions on things at school. I want to stick by what I believe and what I like, not my friend's friend's friend's cousin's uncle's student's opinons from the next town over or whatever.

Author:  Hans [ Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

elphieglinda16 wrote:
I want to stick by what I believe and what I like.


Well, my point was the exact opposite. I have no interest in what you believe and what you like. I want to know what you think about things regardless of your personal taste. How do you evaluate things objectively? Do you for example think Wicked is technically well-written, well-structured, etc, if you don't take into consideration your personal taste?

You can of course stick to what you like, yet what is interesting to us others at the board is your objective evaluation, because we can agree with it or not. One cannot agree or not with someone's personal feelings, because they are personal. Agreeing or not agreeing is of course the core of a discussion board.

Author:  Jman383 [ Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

The problem with that, Hans, is that even our view of structure can be subjective. It's a matter of taste, not facts, you know? Facts inform that sense of taste, but that sense of taste is not a fact. Does that make any sense?

Nevertheless, obviously certain tastes are more qualified and informed than others. I mean, come on. Thats a given. I just mean to say: ignorance is bliss for many, many people.

And because of that...you might be fighting a losing battle :-P

Author:  wangll [ Sat May 25, 2013 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

I also like the analogy you used here. Seriously, I am tired of people trying to sway my opinions on things at school. I want to stick by what I believe and what I like, not my friend's friend's friend's cousin's uncle's student's opinons from the next town over or whatever.

Author:  Hans [ Sat May 25, 2013 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

Jman383 wrote:
The problem with that, Hans, is that even our view of structure can be subjective. It's a matter of taste, not facts, you know? Facts inform that sense of taste, but that sense of taste is not a fact. Does that make any sense


Yes. And I don't think it's a problem as long as one explains the rationale behind one's view on the structure.

It's also not a problem if one doesn't explain it, but then it's indifferent to others (or me at least).

Author:  cubanagu [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One thing to remember....

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