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Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989 

Of the musicals listed below, which is your Top Musical of 1980-1989?
LES MISERABLES 26%  26%  [ 10 ]
INTO THE WOODS 21%  21%  [ 8 ]
SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE 23%  23%  [ 9 ]
LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
MISS SAIGON 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
LA CAGE AUX FOLLES 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
NINE 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
DREAMGIRLS 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 39

Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989 
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Post Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
Some time ago, we did a series of weekly polls where we voted for our Top 10 musicals of each decade and then I compiled a list working out statistically what the Top 10 musicals were for each decade. I thought it might be fun to revisit the topic as those threads were among those lost when the board was moved. However, I thought we would take a slightly different approach this time. I saved the lists when I did the stats and so I have the ordered lists for each decade. I thought that we could, week by week, revisit each decade, this time using a polling feature with a vote for your favourite musical out of the Top 10 we collectively chose last time and then a few questions. Participation will be open ended in each thread, in other words there will never be a cut off date and new members can vote and respond whenever they like. Please don't skip ahead and try to start a new decade earlier. This can be great fun if we work together. As I remember, the discussions last time around became very interesting.

TOP 10 MUSICALS: 1980 - 1989

Vote for your number one musical of the decade, listed above in the order in which they ranked during the previous polls and answer the questions below.

1. Which is your favourite musical from this decade? Why?

2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why?

3. Which musical from this decade that didn't make the list do you think should have appeared in the Top 10? Why?

4. Which cast recording of a show that premiered in this decade is your favourite? Why can't you stop listening to it?

5. If you could pitch a film version, television adaptation or revival for a musical from this decade, which would you choose? Who would you cast? Discuss.

For the sake of having an easy reference, other musicals that featured in the old poll included: City of Angels, Cats, Big River, Grand Hotel, Chess, The Mystery of Edwin Drood, Aspects of Love, March of the Falsettos, Starlight Express, Baby, Singin' in the Rain, Closer Than Ever, Return to the Forbidden Planet, Woman of the Year, Smile, Which Witch, 42nd Street, The Gospel at Colonus, Lucky Stiff, My One and Only and Song and Dance.

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Last edited by RainbowJude on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat May 21, 2011 11:10 pm
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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
1. Which is your favourite musical from this decade? Why?
Sunday In the Park With George! Truly a work of genius. The wonderful songs which matches the book very nicely, and the wonderful scenes like "We Do Not Belong Together", "Beautiful" and "Sunday". It is magical.

2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why?
The Phantom of the Opera. It is crap. Music of the Night is five and a half minutes of boredom and dramaturgic stop! The title song does very little for the story and doesn't match the style. I could go on, but I am not in my usual "bitching on POTO" mood.

3. Which musical from this decade that didn't make the list do you think should have appeared in the Top 10? Why?
City of Angels, Grand Hotel and Chess. I don't know most of these shows very well, I mostly know their scores, but not the books. Going by score I would claim that all three have more exciting material than POTO, Dreamgirls and Miss Saigon. Although the book of Chess is flawed, I think the general idea is good, and that when done right (or at least close to, like in the Swedish production) it is better than POTO and Miss Saigon.

4. Which cast recording of a show that premiered in this decade is your favourite? Why can't you stop listening to it?
Chess. The music is lovely! It is one of my favorite shows, and I never get tired of Pity the Child, Endgame, Nobody's Side and Press Conference.

5. If you could pitch a film version, television adaptation or revival for a musical from this decade, which would you choose? Who would you cast? Discuss.
Chess. Chess. Chess. Chess. Chess. And perhaps Chess once more. I think Chess will need very heavy rewriting to ever be brilliant, and I think perhaps that some 5-6 new productions might make the changes needed. The new production which recently toured the UK solved some of the book-problems with staging and brilliant direction, but I still think a rewrite is due. I would love to direct and co-write a solid-book production of Chess, although I don't think I will ever get the chance.

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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
1. Which is your favourite musical from this decade? Why?
CATS, cause I'm not predictable at all. I think many people dismiss it because they expect a musical where everything is sung at them, rather than one where it is danced at them. Or they just cannot interpret the dance, or they are only used to the film, which does a poor job of telling story and character. Of the ones in the poll, I picked Into The Woods.

2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why?
Of the ones I am familiar with, POTO. Has some good bits, but too much of it just drags, and Raoul never becomes and interesting alternative, and Richard Stilgoe has better lyrics than Charles Hart.

3. Which musical from this decade that didn't make the list do you think should have appeared in the Top 10? Why?
Cats, obviously. Far better work from Webber than Phantom. And the old version of Starlight Express is also much better than Phantom.

4. Which cast recording of a show that premiered in this decade is your favourite? Why can't you stop listening to it?
The Polish recording of Cats (even though it is a 2003 recording). Most Cats recordings, expect some like the OBC. The London recording of Into the Woods and the original Starlight Express as well.

5. If you could pitch a film version, television adaptation or revival for a musical from this decade, which would you choose? Who would you cast? Discuss.
A proper movie of Cats, not toned down at all. I would end up M rated if I was in charge. Blood in the Macavity fight. During Demeter's dance in Macavity and other parts of the song, when she imagines Macavity's touch, be able to see his hands touching her. Maybe some images during Grizabella of her on the street, being the prostitute.

Demeter - Anne Hathaway (if she can dance it)
Grizabella - Judy Dench or Glenn Close
Bombalurina - Catherine Zeta Jones (if she can still do it)


Thu May 26, 2011 9:14 pm
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Post Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
1. Which is your favourite musical from this decade? Why? I always name Sunday in the Park with George for my top pick in this decade. As I sit here right this second, I'm not actually sure that it is my favourite, although it might be the best written overall. There are other shows that are less artistically successful that I think I just like more. Les Misérables, for sure, Dreamgirls, perhaps, even Little Shop of Horrors or certain permutations of Into the Woods. I think the problem is that the more I live with Sunday in the Park With George, the more problematic some parts of the second act become for me - but I think these might be linked more to the physical production that originally appeared on Broadway. The first act never fails to move me. It is cathartic and beautiful and perfect. The second act, so necessary, has high moments that match those of the first act, but it is less consistent overall. Perhaps the artist of the second act is simply less comepelling that that of the first, although it could be argued that that is part of the point. Perhaps it is that the context of creating art has changed. I am unsure. There is a great deal upon which to muse.

2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why? The Phantom of the Opera. Easily. All style, beautifully presented, but completely empty and unsatisfying, particularly in terms of character development. It's such a pity because the concept has the potential to be absolutely compelling and phenomenal. People might say that its success is enough to earn it a spot, but I say that a show needs more than a healthy bank balance to be a good show.

3. Which musical from this decade that didn't make the list do you think should have appeared in the Top 10? Why? I do think Cats should have been there instead of The Phantom of the Opera. Cats has somehow earned a reputation that it doesn't deserve, because the idea, the execution and the staging all have a great deal going for it. I am always drawn into the show when I see it. I've never not enjoyed it, but I've always seen casts that are committed to giving their all to every moment of the performance. I've heard such awful stories about casts that are complacent in the middle of long contracts, so I guess that there are times when the show might not be as compelling as it could be. Chess is also problematic. I saw a production that was just about as perfect as Chess can be a few years ago and if that were the definitive version of Chess, I would say that the show would deserve a spot in the Top 10. But it isn't, so....

4. Which cast recording of a show that premiered in this decade is your favourite? Why can't you stop listening to it? On CD, I probably return to Les Misérables, Miss Saigon and Dreamgirls the most. Les Misérables just sweeps me away, despite its flaws, and I am happy to let it do so. Miss Saigon has a performance by Lea Salonga that is simply phenomenal. Dreamgirls has some super smart set pieces that I always appreciate: I absolutely can't get enough of the fight sequence that leads into "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going".

5. If you could pitch a film version, television adaptation or revival for a musical from this decade, which would you choose? Who would you cast? Discuss. I am directing Into the Woods next year, so I could talk about my ideas for that. But I am still nursing them, so they're certainly not ready to be shared. I've also had some ideas for a film based on Chess, but these aren't all thought through either. Let's just say that I think Chess could be a brilliant film with the right people shaping the screenplay.

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Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:40 pm
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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
1. Which is your favourite musical from this decade? Why?
Out of the Top 10, I voted La Cage aux Folles, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being identity reasons ("I Am What I Am" is almost like a rite of passage for young gay men in America who happen to like disco; God bless Gloria Gaynor for her cover). But for favorite musical of the decade period, I would definitely have to go with Chess, just... just because. For anyone who ever likes fixing their favorite show as a hobby, Chess provides no end of fun (and frustration!) in doing so.

2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why?
I'm going to be the heretic and go with Merrily We Roll Along. Don't get me wrong, it's a great show and wonderfully constructed, but as history has shown, people just don't get the fact that it's going backwards. We've had revivals that did everything but have pages fly off the calendar in reverse motion, and people still didn't get it. It's incredibly frustrating, and it shuts out the potential audience. I know it's Sondheim, I know he's the greatest, I know it's innovative ... I don't give a flying f*ck, put the damn thing back to front so people can actually appreciate the story. In my opinion, one of the things that people don't like about the show is that they're forced to feel sorry for the main character because of the backwards nature -- they watch this a**hole Frank become innocent (thereby hitting the audience over the head with "He wasn't always like this!" at a point when they no longer care because they can't follow the story -- it's like Uncle Mortie rewinding the video to go over the plot points without letting you watch the whole movie), rather than being able to sympathize with the anti-hero because he's a decent guy turned into a creep by the world around him. You want them to care about him? Switch the damn thing round, and restore the graduation speech book-ends when that's done so that you've got a coherent whole at the end of the day.

3. Which musical from this decade that didn't make the list do you think should have appeared in the Top 10? Why?
I'm going to cast my vote here for Chess again. It's easy to argue that there have been so many different versions of the show that one has to specify which version should be in the Top 10; I almost made that argument myself. But whatever version of Chess you're seeing, it is bolstered for the most part by a magnificent score that tells a heart-wrenching story of politics, love, and betrayal. If only one could find a comfortable middle for the plot that the score is wrapped around...

4. Which cast recording of a show that premiered in this decade is your favourite? Why can't you stop listening to it?
I love the 2001 Actor's Fund recording of Dreamgirls; it's the whole show on CD. It captures the excitement, the electricity, the rhythm, the vocal fireworks, all the things that made the show a success. Being a (mostly) live recording helps, with the audience giving it some of that atmosphere, but the performances are excellent and the score is shown in all its brilliance. (Additionally, as the recent revival incorporates additional songs from the film, and this may be reflective of future versions, this CD is the only current extant version that captures the original hit version of the show from a period before the days of Beyonce and Bill Condon.) I can't recommend it enough.

5. If you could pitch a film version, television adaptation or revival for a musical from this decade, which would you choose? Who would you cast? Discuss.
Oh boy. Well, I'm going to make some controversial decisions here, so bear with me. First of all, to jump on the bandwagon with all those who don't care enough about Cats to make a gritty reboot (Mungojerrie_rt should really be thankful to have what he does, because the project was originally supposed to be a Spielberg-produced animated film for Universal -- ick, to say the least), Chess is the obvious choice for film. Like RainbowJude, I think Chess could be a brilliant film with the right people shaping the screenplay.

However, there is an obvious direction to take that I think should be adhered to rather than starting off on a whole new version for film entirely (as Thom_Boyer, also on these forums, seems to have done with his fan screenplay; not knocking his work in any way, just asking if we really need one more original variant of Chess). In 2009, RJS posted on the Chess forum the following:

RJS wrote:
It's the same old story, every production has had its good bits, it just has never happened yet that one production has been filled with good bits and none or very few bad bits! If only!


It's a valid point. The thought occurred to me in reading the quoted text ... why has no one sat down, figured out the good bits from all of the major productions, and tried to put them in one version? (Actor's Fund concert cut-and-paste jobs aside.) Opinion being subjective, I'm sure one writer would disagree with another's view of what the good bits from all the major productions are, but it seems to me that's the logical starting point for a screenplay rather than taking whatever version of the score suits the guy running the operation, picking up the basic grains of plot, and fashioning something new around it.

Also, in non-Chess-related film projects, I had an idea for Into the Woods as a "twisted fairy tale" 3D animation sort of film way before DreamWorks and Disney began duking it out over who could send up fairy tales the best, but in the wake of the Shrek franchise, Hoodwinked, Tangled, and so forth, it would just seem like a cash-in. As for Merrily We Roll Along, which lends itself brilliantly to film once the changes I discussed above are made, you already know my thoughts on the subject. (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button notwithstanding, people are not going to follow a backwards plot unless it is somehow worked into the plot itself, and I don't think Merrily is written in such a manner, nor would stooping to such gimmicks make it work any better or worse.)

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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
1. Which is your favourite musical from this decade? Why? Little Shop of Horrors. Everything about it is perfect. It's a perfect morality tale and a top notch score by Menken and Ashman.

2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why? Les Mis, Miss Saigon and PotO.

3. Which musical from this decade that didn't make the list do you think should have appeared in the Top 10? Why? Honestly, none of them.

4. Which cast recording of a show that premiered in this decade is your favourite? Why can't you stop listening to it? Off-Broadway cast of Little Shop.

5. If you could pitch a film version, television adaptation or revival for a musical from this decade, which would you choose? Who would you cast? Discuss. La Cage and Merrily.

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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
Brother Marvin Hinten, S. wrote:
First of all, to jump on the bandwagon with all those who don't care enough about Cats to make a gritty reboot (Mungojerrie_rt should really be thankful to have what he does, because the project was originally supposed to be a Spielberg-produced animated film for Universal -- ick, to say the least)

That gets said a lot, but I have never seen a reliable source for it. Webber himself said that T.S. Elliott never wanted the cats animated (he turned down Disney for that reason), and didn't want them pussy cats, which, unfortunately, a lot of productions do these days.

As for the film there is, it is quite poorly made. Some poor casting choices (though some brilliant ones) and quite substandard directing for film. David Mallet seemed to be more concerned with looking pretty and nifty dancing, than he did with making sure the character came through in the dances, and ignoring Grizabella's other appearances to make her seem less connected to the group. Not to mention some laughably bad edits to paste over sections where whole verses and passages of music have been cut after filming, purely to force it under two hours running time.


Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:21 am
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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
1: Cats, obviously. Seeing it live is a totaly different thing from seeing the movie and I like to state that seeing Cats live is "2.5 hours in paradise."
5: Cats, Cats and Cats. First Cats need a film thats either a proper filmed version off a live show, since Cats is so much better live, or a movie that is an off stage version off the musical, like Mamma Mia! - the Movie is. Second a tv serious could easily explore much more off the characters and sub storys in thats shown in the musical but nevers fully explored. And third Cats definately needs a revival, prepheringly one thats is a total concept and where you is at the cats world from the moment yorue enter the theathre to the moment you leave after the show.

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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
1. Which is your favourite musical from this decade? Why?

Sunday, of course. Because, along with Sweeney Todd, I think it accomplishes everything that can be accomplished within the genre of musical theatre. It is so uniue in concept and sound, and incredibly moving. I think there is a core ideology and metaphor that fuels every possibly aspect of the show - that everything has impact on everything. Every small dot on that canvas is crucial to the overall experience of the painting. I think this is reflected exquisitely throughout every aspect of the show. Along with its other themes, I think this makes it a very profound show.

2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why?

I think Miss Saigon is very bad. Recently I attended a musicals concert (in which our own Hight-Baritonne performed, by the way, and greatly did he). I brought along a friend whose knowledge in musicals is next to zero. It was amusing how he immediately found the MS excerpts to be painfully boring. The performances were very good, but the music is very dully written. The "highlight" was The American Dream, which I suppose is meant to be comic and satirical. It's just that it builds and builds without ever getting actually entertaining, and the satire is sooo lame. The ballads of the piece, which there are too many of at any rate, are very cheesy. I hate that ugly saxomophone ditty. It must end.

3. Which musical from this decade that didn't make the list do you think should have appeared in the Top 10? Why?

I think City of Angels is pure musical comedy heaven. It has very intelligent music and lyrics without being "deep". I think it's a complete conundrum that Zippel later wrote the disgusting lyrics for TWIW. I think this perhaps is Coleman's best music.

On the other hand, lately, I've redevelopped an enthusiasm for Chess. I loved the piece as a teen ager, along with POTO, Les Mis and Which Witch, before I turned Malicious Sondheimist. Now, after having used the second act (of the Danish cast recording) as accompagnement while working out, I have finally been able to try and figure out what exactly happens there. Tim Rice is still the master of misplaced accentuating, but with much concentration, the piece more or less makes sense to me now. There's still too much ado about something cluttered together strangely, but I start to think it is sort of underrated, despite it's popularity (everyone loves it in Scandinavia). People who love it, love the music and don't care about the tangled plot, while people dismissing it either underrates the catchy music or make too much fuss about the convulted, but not unuseable plot.

4. Which cast recording of a show that premiered in this decade is your favourite? Why can't you stop listening to it?

I think Little Shop of Horrors is eternally fresh. The Soundtrack has the superior performances and the revival includes all the music, as well as gems cut from either the stage show or the movie. Both (the movie cast and the entire score) are glorious, though I wish it were the movie cast that had recorded the entire score.

5. If you could pitch a film version, television adaptation or revival for a musical from this decade, which would you choose? Who would you cast? Discuss.

Most of all I’d like to see films of Into The Woods, Sunday in the Park with George, City of Angels and Chess.

All of them would require different modes of filming than the “naturalism” thrend that is so in vogue now, and has ruined film versions of shows less theatrical than these. An example is Nine, whose nature as a musical was tried hidden by disguising it as the same sort of musical that Chicago is. Any filmatisation of any of these must acknowledge that they are musicals, not documentaries.

If I can see Ruthie Henshall, Angela Lansbury, Bernadette Peters, Johnny Depp, Christopher Walken, Judi Dench or a Sondheim cameo in any of these films, I’ll be content. I wonder if Heather Graham can sing?

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:38 am
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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
Brother Marvin Hinten, S. wrote:
First of all, to jump on the bandwagon with all those who don't care enough about Cats to make a gritty reboot (Mungojerrie_rt should really be thankful to have what he does, because the project was originally supposed to be a Spielberg-produced animated film for Universal -- ick, to say the least)

That gets said a lot, but I have never seen a reliable source for it.


See the "Playing for Spielberg" section under "Original Music" on the official website of Steve Margoshes, which can be accessed by clicking the drawing in the top right hand corner. Mr. Margoshes certainly has no reason to lie about it.

Also, for your edification, some concept and storyboard art from the project can be found here. Guess I spoke too soon. It actually looks like they had a bang-up job in mind.

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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
I wonder how they would tell story and character though? The show was written as effectively a ballet with singing, so once you remove choreography, it would be much harder to convey meaning with animated, more feline characters dancing.


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Post Re: Top 10 Musicals Revisited: 1980 - 1989
RainbowJude wrote:
2. Which musical on the Top 10 list is least deserving of a spot? Why?

Okay... I know I'm just a n00b around here, and not crazy knowledgeable about all musicals, but y'all are being WAY too hard on Phantom! Sure, I understand that many may be sick to death of it... but saying that Phantom is the least deserving of a spot in the top ten musicals of the 80s is just wrong. That's like saying Hulk Hogan is the least deserving professional wrestler of the 80s... who is clearly the most well known ever.

With the overall impact Phantom made around the world, and still makes today, I just don't see how anyone can say it's the least deserving.

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