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Musicals that are or aren't appropriate for high schools 
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Adie wrote:
Besides the content, I'm shocked that the school admin or board or whoever has to approve the show would choose a show that automatically disqualified any males and for males in the audience is already that much less relatable and accessible.

One of my colleges did The Vagina Monologues and Steel Magnolias simultaneously as their two productions one quarter. It was very unfair to the men in the program, who now had absolutely no opportunity. The excuse being, of course, that they should use this as a chance to try a new crew position, but that's bull. However, that was college, so it got by. As a taxpayer, I would be outraged to hear that a public high school's drama department was staging a production that automatically excluded half the student body from being able to participate.

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Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:05 am
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Quote:
I'm shocked that the school admin or board or whoever has to approve the show would choose a show that automatically disqualified any males and for males in the audience is already that much less relatable and accessible.



Well the school drama program is already pretty much female-dominated anyways, so it's not that big of a deal. The boys could perform in the other plays and musicals that the school does ever year.

And also, tons of guys were in the audience when I went to see the show.


Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:37 am
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Quote:
a show that automatically disqualified any males and for males in the audience is already that much less relatable and accessible.

I think that's the crucial part. Yes, men still attended the show (maybe their wives or girlfriends dragged them along as their Valentine's Day date, maybe they believe in being supportive no matter how ridiculous of a choice the material is, maybe they thought there would be visible vaginas... there are a veritable plethora of reasons why they would go, and only a few of the least likely ones add up to "the material was actually of interest to them"), and yes, the guys at school could still do other things (but is it fair for a school to offer any activity that excludes an entire gender without an equivalent for them being offered? Has the supreme court ever decided anything about that?). But the point is that a high school production of The Vagina Monologues does more ill through the channels of exclusion, dulling interest in the program, and ticking people off than it does good through the channels of what the show is supposed to acheive. So I put it on the "not suitable for high school" list.

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Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:45 pm
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But the point is that a high school production of The Vagina Monologues does more ill through the channels of exclusion, dulling interest in the program, and ticking people off than it does good through the channels of what the show is supposed to acheive. So I put it on the "not suitable for high school" list.



I don't think you can really decide whether or not it would contribute to "dulling interest in the program" when you didn't even see the production. As it turned out, everyone LOVED the show and nobody was ticked off. I strongly doubt that they would do the show every year if it was making people uncomfortable.


And if I was in a public high school where they did an all-male production, I wouldn't mind it at all... as long as there were other shows for me to audition for. As it happens, this particular school does other plays and musicals during the year, giving boys plenty of performing opportunities.


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As a taxpayer, I would be outraged to hear that a public high school's drama department was staging a production that automatically excluded half the student body from being able to participate.


Again, this took place in an extremely liberal town where people are not easily offended over this sort of thing. You probably wouldn't want to live there anyways. But even if you were a taxpayer there, your money wouldn't be going to the drama department... the show is performed annually during "V-Season", which means that they get the rights for free.


Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:52 am
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LeocadiaBegbick wrote:
I don't think you can really decide whether or not it would contribute to "dulling interest in the program" when you didn't even see the production. As it turned out, everyone LOVED the show and nobody was ticked off. I strongly doubt that they would do the show every year if it was making people uncomfortable.

I guarantee not everyone who heard of this was thrilled. Perhaps no one was able to speak out about it because sometimes it's easier to let the libs have their way than to try fighting their bull when you're outnumbered.

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And if I was in a public high school where they did an all-male production, I wouldn't mind it at all... as long as there were other shows for me to audition for. As it happens, this particular school does other plays and musicals during the year, giving boys plenty of performing opportunities.

That's easy to say when it's hypothetical.


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Again, this took place in an extremely liberal town where people are not easily offended over this sort of thing. You probably wouldn't want to live there anyways. But even if you were a taxpayer there, your money wouldn't be going to the drama department... the show is performed annually during "V-Season", which means that they get the rights for free.

Taxpayer money supports the drama department of a public high school in more ways than just royalties. Even if it didn't, I would not wish for that department to see a red cent of it, related to that production or not, as long as it was going on. That isn't about content. It's about equal opportunities for all students. And I would cause a scene. And I would win. You know I would.

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:40 am
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I guarantee not everyone who heard of this was thrilled.


There obviously weren't enough people to prevent it from happening every single year. In that case, a small minority is irrelevant. There are always going to be people who don't approve of certain shows, appropriate or not.


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That's easy to say when it's hypothetical.


Not really. I know several boys who are in that school drama department, and none of them were bothered at all at the idea of not being able to participate in that show.


It's one thing if the school chooses to perform a whole season of shows that automatically exclude the boys (I agree that it's not right for a college to do Steel Magnolias and the V-monologues right after each other). But again, the school offers multiple performance opportunities for all the students throughout the school year. Most kids don't do every single show anyways. At this particular school I'm talking about, that show was clearly this one.


And as far as "lack of equal opportunities" is concerned, you see that all the time in schools, regardless of gender. My old public high school didn't allow anyone who wasn't in the advanced choir and at least a junior to even participate in musicals. Basically that excluded everyone in the student body except for the 25 juniors and seniors in the advanced choir (many whose experience was limited solely to choir, and with no acting ability).

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And I would win. You know I would.



Lol. You wish.


Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm
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LeocadiaBegbick wrote:
Lol. You wish.

I've led more legal proceedings on behalf of marginalized and disempowered men than you're likely witness in your entire life. Laugh all you like, but make sure you also say a quick thank you prayer that you've never been on the receiving end of them. I don't make it fun.

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:49 pm
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I've led more legal proceedings on behalf of marginalized and disempowered men than you're likely witness in your entire life




At the mere age of 21? Yeah, and I'm Elton John in disguise. :roll:


Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:22 am
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Never mind my literal age (you're off), I have years of work ahead of me. By the time I die, society will have changed and stopped downtreading men. Whether there will be equality then, or whether things will swing back so that women are once again the victims, remains to be seen... but since one of those will be true, you might as well help me work for equilibrium.

That said and returning to the topic, you don't have a leg to stand on insisting that The Vagina Monologues is suitable for high schools and a fair choice for a co-ed program. Everyone else in this thread knows it, and I think you do, too, or you wouldn't have desperately branched off into getting personal with me. Good effort, but I'm not green enough to let you off the hook by getting distracted by the bait, so don't think the conversation is over. So far, your only support has been trying to impress us with how open-minded and liberal your school and community was. That's all well and good, but an anecdote about a very unusual and exceptional situation doesn't carry the day.

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Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:31 pm
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That said and returning to the topic, you don't have a leg to stand on insisting that The Vagina Monologues is suitable for high schools and a fair choice for a co-ed program. Everyone else in this thread knows it, and I think you do, too



Ummm, no. I happen to know for a fact that the show was extremely well-received at the school. And considering that you didn't even see the aforementioned production, I don't think you have any business talking about how the audience members, staff and student body reacted or didn't react. Again, on a logical basis, why would they do the show every year if it wasn't? Face it, you just can't admit the fact that not everyone thinks and views things exactly like you do. Don't even bother attempting to pretend that every community will accept the same show the same way (or, for that matter, that everyone under the age of 20 is too immature to be doing any show with remotely "questionable" subject matter or any substantial emotional content - how else are young actors supposed to grow without material that stretches them?). So far you don't seem to have much of a leg to stand on in anything other than proving how narrow-minded and out of touch you are.


Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:39 pm
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Most people in this thread tend to agree with my stance rather than yours. When it comes to a question of public opinion, that lends credence. And if I may repeat, you are the one bringing up a radical viewpoint and supporting it only with "In one (exceptionally liberal) community, it worked." A community where a good chunk of high schoolers have been homeless and drug-addicted, and all the parents are pleased to hear their sixteen-year-old daughters announce that their vaginas are angry, is an unusual case. You do understand that, right?

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Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:28 pm
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I guess were all live in different societys where different things is apropiate. Musicals and plays that are okey doing in sweden might be big no no in religious part off the states. So I guess every one that consider doing a musical, espeially for youngsters, should consider how the participants and the potential audience might react upon it before choicing one.

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Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:54 pm
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