The Resource For Musicals



All ALW, All the Time Forum


Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Accusations of plagiarism 
Author Message
Supporting Player
Supporting Player

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:49 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Australia
Post Accusations of plagiarism
If memory serves me correctly, these are the instances where ALW has been accused of plagiarism...

"The Phantom Of The Opera" (the song) was accused of ripping-off "Echoes" by Pink Floyd.

With "The Woman In White"... "All For Laura" was accused of ripping off "Moonfall" from "The Mystery Of Edwin Drood"... and "Lammastide" was accused of ripping off the Los Del Rio song "Macarena"

With "Whistle Down The Wind"... "Vaults Of Heaven" was accused of ripping off John Williams' theme to "Jurassic Park".

With "Joseph & The Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat"... "Grovel Grovel" was accused of ripping off "We Three Kings".

With "Jesus Christ Superstar"... "Blood Money" was accused of ripping off the theme from the 60s "Batman" TV show.

With "Aspects Of Love"... Frank Rich accused ALW of ripping off "Somewhere" from "West Side Story", with "Seeing Is Believing".

With "Song & Dance"... "The Last Man In My Life" was accused of ripping off "Do You Love Me" from "Fiddler On The Roof".

"Love Never Dies" / "Our Kind Of Love" / "The Heart Is Slow To Learn" was accused of ripping off the theme from Billy Wilder's film "The Apartment".



Can anyone here think of any other instances where ALW has been accused of plagiarism?

What do people think of the allegations? How much substance do you think there is to them?


Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:40 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:18 pm
Posts: 3165
Location: NYC as of 2011. Formerly SF Bay Area.
Current Obsession: punctuation
Main Role: Fan
Post 
From 1998: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/235906.stm

_________________
The Very Angry Woman

The Very Angry Man has retired from musicals.net.
_________________
This just in! People can be mean on the internet. (NPR)


Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:54 pm
Profile WWW
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:06 pm
Posts: 855
Post 
Another "Phantom" one:

I read on Wikipedia that Puccini's estate sued ALW for ripping off a melody from the opera "La Fanciulla del West." The "Silently the senses..."/"Turn your face away.../Etc." phrase in "Music of the Night" is almost identical to a phrase that the tenor sings in Act I of the opera.


Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:02 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2570
Location: California
Post 
Said phrase in only a couple measures long and resolves completely differently.

I think it's pretty silly, really, considering how many other people get away with much longer and more blatant "musical quotations."


Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:07 pm
Profile
Tony Winner
Tony Winner

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 283
Post 
If you write in a major key and don't modulate out of it or borrow any chromatic notes, then there are only seven notes available. Most combinations of them that sound good have been used before. It's not a big issue - what makes a composer talented isn't the ability to come up with short melodic motifs, it's how he uses and develops them.

So superficial similarities between melodies Lloyd Webber uses and other composers really isn't a big deal. It's inevitable given the simplicity of many of his tunes. And simple tunes are usually the most powerful, so he uses them for his big numbers for that reason, not because he lacks the ability to write more sophisticated stuff (which he can and does write, as well).

_________________
Blessed are those who go in circles, for they shall be called "wheels".


Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:32 am
Profile
Fresh Face
Fresh Face

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 1
Post Re: Accusations of plagiarism
I think Phantom of the Opera has very bad, hackneyed musical phrases/expressions. But that is probably why it became successful. Even a character played by Billie Crystal in 'Forget Paris' recognizes that "Music in the Night' is like some kindergarten song he grew up with and he could not, therefore, credit the musical with much originality or effort. The title song has always sounded awful to me, especially that musical phrase 'the phan...tomoftheoperaishere...' How pedestrian. Truly awful. The songs in Phantom are so incongruous and inelegant, that those familiar passages had to have been plagiarized, only for the sake of gaining some response or achieving an effect. I refuse to believe that Weber was 'plagiarizing subconsciously'. He knows music enough to know where he was getting these phrases.


Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:08 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Posts: 4136
Location: The Old Red Hills of Home
Current Obsession: Stephen Sondheim, Falsettos
Main Role: Performer
Post Re: Accusations of plagiarism
The "Love Never Dies"/The Apartment thing is SO ANNOYING. I swear, they're the exact same.

Love Never Dies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKjrCHf ... re=related
Jealous Lover, from The Apartment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_hRC5auJLA

Fail, Andy. :thumbdown:

_________________
Image
Previously: Baker, Into the Woods; Leo Frank, Parade
Currently: Georg, Spring Awakening


Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:41 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:18 pm
Posts: 3165
Location: NYC as of 2011. Formerly SF Bay Area.
Current Obsession: punctuation
Main Role: Fan
Post Re: Accusations of plagiarism
Don't tell me you guys haven't seen the Honest Obituary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoVccXgAy6U

_________________
The Very Angry Woman

The Very Angry Man has retired from musicals.net.
_________________
This just in! People can be mean on the internet. (NPR)


Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:01 pm
Profile WWW
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:31 pm
Posts: 2917
Location: Lancaster, PA
Main Role: Fan
Post Re:
Pannic wrote:
Said phrase in only a couple measures long and resolves completely differently.

I think it's pretty silly, really, considering how many other people get away with much longer and more blatant "musical quotations."


Make Em Laugh from Singin In The Rain is basically the song Be A Clown. :(

_________________
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Image
MdN Superlatives 2009 - Most Likely to Post Breaking News
http://bestpicturenoms.wordpress.com/


Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:31 pm
Profile WWW
Off-Broadway Lead
Off-Broadway Lead

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:46 am
Posts: 230
Post Re: Accusations of plagiarism
Two points on Blood Money. Firstly the rhythm is a fairly obvious scale, and secondly since American TV programs took much longer to reach the UK in those days would the Batman music even have been known in the UK when this was written.


Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:06 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 511
Location: California, USA
Current Obsession: Elisabeth, Cats, Follies, Scarlet Pimpernel
Post Re: Accusations of plagiarism
The whole Phantom of the Opera sounding like Echoes always seemed sketchy to me.

Let's just pretend for a minute that he did rip off Pink Floyd. Do you think one day he thought to himself, while listening to the song, "man, this shit's good. bet it would go well in my musical!". It just seems like such a random song to rip off. It's not even one of Pink Floyd's biggest songs. If he was deliberately ripping off of the band, why not rip off Another Brick in the Wall or Comfortably Numb? And it's a chord progression anyway. That's pretty damn miniscule, if you ask me. Pink Floyd is more famous than Webber, so why does Roger Waters even give a shit?

See, the main thing in common with all of these comparisons is that they're all tiny parts of a song. If it were more than that, then that would be pretty alarming. "Ohmygawd 7 NOTES are similar! Plagarism!" ......please.

(and for the record, I like Pink Floyd a hell of a lot more then anything Webber's ever composed)


Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:02 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:35 am
Posts: 940
Location: Carleton Place, Ontario, CAN
Post Re: Re:
Brock07 wrote:
Pannic wrote:
Said phrase in only a couple measures long and resolves completely differently.

I think it's pretty silly, really, considering how many other people get away with much longer and more blatant "musical quotations."


Make Em Laugh from Singin In The Rain is basically the song Be A Clown. :(


And when Porter heard the song, he laughed and thought it was a brilkliant idea.

Andy.

_________________
Productions:
GREASE 1997 (Chorus boy)
JOSEPH... DREAMCOAT 2001 (Swing/Lively Lad)
JCS 2003 (Apostle/Swing)
IOLANTHE 2004 (Peer)
EVITA 2007 (Swing)
CANAJUN EH? (2007)
CHRISTMAS LOVE TRAIN (2007)


Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:03 pm
Profile YIM WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.