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Sondheim vs. Rice 

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Sondheim (choose me!!) 100%  100%  [ 31 ]
Rice 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 31

Sondheim vs. Rice 
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Jennyanydots wrote:
That's hilarious because I was just thinking, "DAMN! Rice wrote that?!? That was a GOOD SONG!! And....Rice wrote that???"

Good to know my opinion of Rice is still the same.

Maybe it shouldn't be. Ashman's colloquial lyrical style was definately influenced by Rice - more than usual in "One Jump".

(Though admittedly this might be a case of the student doing it better than the teacher.)

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Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:20 pm
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What songs from Alladin did Rice write?


Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:07 pm
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Post Ashman / Rice Lyrics in ALADDIN
Actually Tim Rice did write the lyrics for "One Jump Ahead". The other songs he wrote for Aladdin were: "One Jump Ahead (Reprise)", "A Whole New World" and "Prince Ali (Reprise)". Howard Ashman wrote "Arabian Nights", "Friend Like Me"and "Prince Ali".

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Last edited by RainbowJude on Wed May 12, 2010 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:07 pm
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Post Re: Ashman / Rice
RainbowJude wrote:
Actually Tim Rice did write the lyrics for "One Jump Ahead". The other songs he wrote for Aladdin were: "One Jump Ahead (Reprise)", "A Whole New World" and "Prince Ali (Reprise)".

*goes to allmusic*

*checks credits*


F_ck. Twice in as many days.

I always though Howard Ashman finished everything except the reprises and "Whole New World" before he died. Oh well, at least now I can stop wondering about the "rather tasty" line.

Now I have to apologize to Desperado, don't I?

Ah, screw it.

*commits seppuku instead*


Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:23 pm
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Post ALADDIN digression
Fontinau wrote:
I always though Howard Ashman finished everything except the reprises and "Whole New World" before he died.

The entire film was revised in the time period between Ashman's death and the start of production. Aladdin's mother was jettisoned (along with the immensely moving "Proud of Your Boy") and various other story points were changed too. Menken even had a stab at writing both music and lyrics at a new establishing ballad piece for Aladdin before Rice was hired.

The first song Menken and Rice completed was "A Whole New World". Then "One Jump Ahead", which became Aladdin's establishing number and the ballad spot was filled with the reprise that follows shortly after the production number. They also wrote a couple of other songs for Jafar to sing in the spot where the reprise of "Prince Ali" is. Both of these are a bit too punny to be funny and certainly aren't as good as anything that made it into the film.

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Last edited by RainbowJude on Wed May 12, 2010 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:30 am
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Post Re: Musical lyricists
RainbowJude wrote:
The entire film was revised in the time period between Ashman's death and the start of production. Aladdin's mother was jettisoned (along with the immensely moving "Proud of Your Boy") and various other story points were changed too.

Yeah, I already knew about "Proud of Your Boy".

I once came up with a theory that dropping that song was the single decisive moment that killed Disney's second "golden age".

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Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:08 am
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Post ALADDIN digression: Disney's Golden Ages
Fontinau wrote:
I once came up with a theory that dropping ("Proud of Your Boy") was the single decisive moment that killed Disney's second "golden age".

I don't know if I'd go that far, for two reasons. First, I think that they made the right decision in cutting "Proud of Your Boy"; it doesn't have a place in the film that was made and I don't think Disney animation - with the possible expection of Beauty and the Beast and (to a lesser extent) The Little Mermaid - has ever produced the kind of film in which that song would have had a place.

Second, I don't think the second golden age was in fact the second age and I don't think it was stopped short with Aladdin. I'd say the first golden age was 1937 - 1942 (Snow White - Bambi). The second golden age lasted from 1950 - 1967 (Cinderella - The Jungle Book with The Sword in the Stone (1963) marking the start of the decline). The third golden age ran from 1989 - 1996 (The Little Mermaid - The Hunchback of Notre Dame with the first signs of decline in Pocahontas (1995). I think that the last mentioned film marks the beginning of the end, because that was when storytelling took a back seat to formula, pleasing the audience, political correctness and trendy self-referential comedy.

But that's just my point of view....

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Last edited by RainbowJude on Wed May 12, 2010 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:26 am
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Post Re: Golden Age
RainbowJude wrote:
I think that they made the right decision in cutting "Proud of Your Boy"; it doesn't have a place in the film that was made and I don't think Disney animation - with the possible expection of Beauty and the Beast and (to a lesser extent) The Little Mermaid - has ever produced the kind of film in which that song would have had a place.

That's exactly why it cutting it was the death of the "second golden age". It represented the end of Disney's (admittedly brief) period of making movies with characters who could support that kind of song.

Artistic "golden ages" don't end with the first weak effort an artist (or, in Disney's case, a company) puts out. That first weak effort is simply the point where the number of growing weaknesses reach a critical mass and are no longer obscured by concurrent strengths.

Aladdin was the movie where Disney discovered they could get away with boring main characters and a formulaic plot as long as they surrounded them with a colorful supporting cast and lots of clever inside jokes to keep the parents entertained. And the presence of Robin Williams was a prelude to them discovering the commercial potential of using movie celebrities in the voice cast in The Lion King. (Which is also where they discovered the commercial potential of contracting an established pop songwriter to do the soundtrack.)

Those discoveries didn't make Aladdin and The Lion King themselves bad movies. But they started trends which did bring down subsequent movies - main characters and plots getting ever more boring, supporting characters getting ever more intrusive, inside jokes getting ever more obnoxiously blatant, songs getting ever blander, voice casting getting ever more celebrity driven, regardless of the quality of the celebrity's singing voice or the distinctiveness of his speaking voice (Mel Gibson?!?!), etc.

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Post Re: Golden Age
Fontinau wrote:
Aladdin was the movie where Disney discovered they could get away with boring main characters and a formulaic plot as long as they surrounded them with a colorful supporting cast and lots of clever inside jokes to keep the parents entertained. And the presence of Robin Williams was a prelude to them discovering the commercial potential of using movie celebrities in the voice cast in The Lion King. (Which is also where they discovered the commercial potential of contracting an established pop songwriter to do the soundtrack.)
I never liked Robin Williams as the Genie. He was funny and all...but hell, they gave him two songs in a row! And the songs sucked:(

I did't think Mel Gibson was really that bad in Pocahontas, though.

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Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:58 pm
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Desperado wrote:
I never liked Robin Williams as the Genie. He was funny and all...but hell, they gave him two songs in a row! And the songs sucked:(

I should disclose that, while the trend of celebrity voice casting which Robin Williams helped start was a bad thing, I think Robin Williams himself was GREAT as the genie.

And "Friend Like Me" is a great song.

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Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:43 pm
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He was good as the Genie, but I didn't like his songs at all.

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Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:33 am
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Post Re: Golden Age
Desperado wrote:
I didn't think Mel Gibson was really that bad in Pocahontas, though.

Missed this the first time.

And I agree, he wasn't bad - he was just totally nondescript. There's nothing distinctive or unusual about his voice, and his voice acting ability isn't any better than that of any of a hundred guys earning minimum wage dubbing Japanese cartoons.

There was no reason to cast him - except the dubious notion that having a recognizeable celebrity voice one of your animated characters will automatically increase your box office take.

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