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The trial in Norway 
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Post Re: The trial in Norway
le_moofin wrote:
I am against capital punishment. Wasn't always, but I am now. The American judicial system is hardly perfect, and there have been enough cases of innocent people being bullied into confessions (and worse -- innocent people being locked away forever or killed for crimes they didn't commit) that each year I question more and more the "eye-for-an-eye" mentality of this country.

My views on the death penalty is typically reserved for the most heinous crimes, mass murder. There are no questions of guilt, and to my mind the world would certainly be a better place without them in it.
le_moofin wrote:
Social justice is an elusive concept to put into practice for most countries, and while I don't know the particulars of Norway's judicial system, I have often heard it praised for its progressive and humanely compassionate prison system.

Indeed, it is just that, very progressive and humane. And shouldn’t be for the inhumane.
le_moofin wrote:
Here's the rub: in a case about anti-multiculturalism, where a mad man (because he is mad, he is broken, he is wrong and he is deranged in believing otherwise) has committed heinous crimes and been found guilty of them, doesn't the culture he has attacked (the Norwegians) have the right to conduct the trial, the punishment and the grieving in a way best befitting that culture?

No worries there. A person that has murdered 77 people will likely face a maximum penalty of 21 years confined to a “cell” that is furnished better than many apartments, and he’ll even have something of a better lifestyle than some. Norway’s version of what constitutes a “harsh penalty.”
le_moofin wrote:
Maybe he would be given the death penalty here in America, but that's because our country has a thirst for vengeance, for taking the law into our own hands and meting out punishment and judgment because we view ourselves as gods above our fellow man.

I disagree. It’s more about meting out a appropriate penalty. The closest to the Breivik mass murders is the Oklahoma Bombing massacre;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
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Apparently you believe that Timothy McVeigh should not have been given the death penalty.
How about Osama binLaden? I believe there's a line that is drawn for most, and for those that don't believe in such a penalty, they just haven't seen that line.
le_moofin wrote:
But there is a different culture in Norway, and if they find peace in institutionalizing Breivik, in treating him humanely and kindly even though he doesn't deserve anyone's kindness (not because you can deserve humane treatment, but because we are all called upon to do so by our own conscience), then how can they act in any other way?

Which is why I made the comparison of the “Elohim” from HG Wells Time Machine; I frankly wonder if they have the capacity to deal with violent behavior. Treating mass murderers with rainbows, kittens, and butterflies, doesn’t strike me as an appropriate penalty. (Or as it might be the case, flat screen TV, private amenities, jogging trails, and a personal trainer)
le_moofin wrote:
What gives any other culture the right to say, "No Norway, you're doing it wrong. You should kill him. You should shut him away in a dark cell for life. You should punish and grieve the way we do, because that is the right way. Your way is wrong."

Are you saying we should reserve judgement because it's another culture, so we should also reserve judgement on say...Saudi Arabia and China and their implementation of the DP as well?


Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:46 pm
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Post Re: The trial in Norway
Saw this on Yahoo this morning and just wanted to link it here in case anyone wants to read:
http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-defy-no ... 40602.html

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:41 am
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Post Re: The trial in Norway
Brigantine wrote:
Saw this on Yahoo this morning and just wanted to link it here in case anyone wants to read:
http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-defy-no ... 40602.html

That's pretty cool...

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:54 pm
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Post Re: The trial in Norway
Apparently 40.000 people met in Oslo to sing Barn av Regnbuen, a song Breivik calls propaganda. He claims the song brainwashes children to fit our community. In our capital of 600.000, 40.000 standing up to this man is a lot! And there were similar demonstrations all over the country. The thing is that we like to believe that people can change. And if Breivik is sick, as in mentally ill, he might change given the right treatment. He may also be a victim to a psychosis, meaning that he deserves to be cured. I see where your coming from Dax, but even suggesting the Death Penalty here in Norway would lead to mass protests.

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:44 pm
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Post Re: The trial in Norway
High-baritonne wrote:
Apparently 40.000 people met in Oslo to sing Barn av Regnbuen, a song Breivik calls propaganda. He claims the song brainwashes children to fit our community. In our capital of 600.000, 40.000 standing up to this man is a lot! And there were similar demonstrations all over the country. The thing is that we like to believe that people can change. And if Breivik is sick, as in mentally ill, he might change given the right treatment. He may also be a victim to a psychosis, meaning that he deserves to be cured. I see where your coming from Dax, but even suggesting the Death Penalty here in Norway would lead to mass protests.


This is what I'm talking about. If the people of Norway want to mete out justice their way, we shouldn't tell them they're doing it "wrong" or ridicule them for choosing to be more compassionate.

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Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:43 pm
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