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Nudity in Sweeney Todd? 
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LeocadiaBegbick wrote:
I think that the lewd wolf costume was silly and unnecessary. If the character's lasciviousness can't be communicated through acting, then there's something wrong with the performer. They shouldn't need to spell out the character's motivations with a big old wolf penis. This is, after all, a children's fairy tale---the subversiveness shouldn't be done in such a literal manner. The sexual overtones should be suggested at, and left for the audience to figure out themselves, not beat down over their heads.


A. Sometimes people are stupid and need it beaten into them.
B. This isn't a children's musical, and calling it a children's fairy tale doesn't mean that it should be dandelions and innocence. Have you ever read the original tale of Sleeping Beauty? There's some nasty stuff in there.

Still... while I don't see a problem with the well-endowed wolf's costume, I see a HUGE problem with a naked Witch. even if it's Bernadette Peters.

---

Onto the actual topic... did anyone see this version the OP talked about? How much nudity was there?

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Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:40 pm
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le_moofin wrote:
Have you ever read the original tale of Sleeping Beauty? There's some nasty stuff in there.


The original 17th century version by Perrault? I don't remember anything lascivious there. It's a bit on the dark side, but I don't remember anything really "nasty."

Are you sure you're not thinking of Anne Rice's "Sleeping Beauty Trilogy" written under the name A. N. Roquelaure? Now that's some nasty storytelling.

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Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:09 pm
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jfmillet wrote:
le_moofin wrote:
Have you ever read the original tale of Sleeping Beauty? There's some nasty stuff in there.


The original 17th century version by Perrault? I don't remember anything lascivious there. It's a bit on the dark side, but I don't remember anything really "nasty."

Are you sure you're not thinking of Anne Rice's "Sleeping Beauty Trilogy" written under the name A. N. Roquelaure? Now that's some nasty storytelling.


No, Perrault was like the 17th century Walt Disney. :D I mean Basile's "Sole, Luna, e Talia," the original Sleeping Beauty. The prince (well, King in this version) rapes Talia/Sleeping Beauty while she's sleeping and then later unknowningly eats his own children that his ogre of a mother arranges while she also tries to get Talia to jump into the fire and kill herself.

It's pretty bad. :)

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Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:17 pm
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Quote:
A. Sometimes people are stupid and need it beaten into them.
B. This isn't a children's musical, and calling it a children's fairy tale doesn't mean that it should be dandelions and innocence. Have you ever read the original tale of Sleeping Beauty? There's some nasty stuff in there.



If the audience can't figure out what the song is about, then the storytelling needs to be tightened up more. The director shouldn't have to resort to a huge wolf penis in order to communicate the song. I dunno, I've never thought much of James Lapine as a theatre director, except for Sunday in the Park with George.


And this isn't a show based on the original tale of Sleeping Beauty. It is a play specifically on Grimm's Fairy Tales. It isn't a children's musical, no, but they do not need to announce itself as being "not a children's musical" but putting in unnecessary lewd costumes. Fairy tales by nature are very metaphorical. The sexual overtones in Little Red Riding Hood are merely hinted at, not expounded upon. It is a lot more interesting to find the depth and subtleties in these situations rather than to exploit the subversiveness for the sake of exploiting the subversiveness and turn it into something tacky.


Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:25 am
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Personally, I didn't think that the penis was that big of a deal.


And its NOT a children's story.
By any means.

In fact, in some productions, they present Act I in the afternoon for parents to bring their children. Then they wait until that night to present Act II after the kids have gone home.

Except the wolf is just Act I......
so that just kinda kills my idea. -_-

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Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:12 am
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LeocadiaBegbick wrote:
Quote:
A. Sometimes people are stupid and need it beaten into them.
B. This isn't a children's musical, and calling it a children's fairy tale doesn't mean that it should be dandelions and innocence. Have you ever read the original tale of Sleeping Beauty? There's some nasty stuff in there.



If the audience can't figure out what the song is about, then the storytelling needs to be tightened up more. The director shouldn't have to resort to a huge wolf penis in order to communicate the song. I dunno, I've never thought much of James Lapine as a theatre director, except for Sunday in the Park with George.


And this isn't a show based on the original tale of Sleeping Beauty. It is a play specifically on Grimm's Fairy Tales. It isn't a children's musical, no, but they do not need to announce itself as being "not a children's musical" but putting in unnecessary lewd costumes. Fairy tales by nature are very metaphorical. The sexual overtones in Little Red Riding Hood are merely hinted at, not expounded upon. It is a lot more interesting to find the depth and subtleties in these situations rather than to exploit the subversiveness for the sake of exploiting the subversiveness and turn it into something tacky.


I think it's one more layer of shock and "adultness," similar to when Florinda and Lucinda lose parts of their feet and their eyes, that helps the audience to understand that this ISN'T about children and the conventional fairy tale we've all heard. Yes, the song itself should be enough of an indicator as it is, but the rather lewd costume helps to transform the song just enough that the audience can't really have any doubt. And while I don't often like things being solved for me, I will say that the wolf doesn't draw too much attention to his bits (until the end at least), and so when I first saw it, it was hard for me to even notice it. And I've never even seen it on stage, which I'm sure would make it even HARDER to see. I dunno, I've just never thought of the wolf penis as that big of a deal, I suppose.

True, but the Grimm fairy tales are based on the Perrault or other fairy tellers, many of which were even more gruesome. Fairy tales back in the day were really half-horrifying, half-magical tales that taught young people correct moral behavior in their society. And yes, they're more metaphorical and subtle by nature, but I've noticed that musical theatre tends to be a great deal less subtle. And even if it's Sondheim, I would argue that ITW is one of his most commercial (that is, normal and approachable) musicals. So it makes sense that it's a little more obvious in its approach than others.

At the end of the day, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

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Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:05 am
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le_moofin wrote:

At the end of the day, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. :)


Precisely:D

*nudges discussion back towards topic*

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Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:14 am
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le_moofin wrote:
Onto the actual topic... did anyone see this version the OP talked about? How much nudity was there?


The production opens in February or March... I'll let you know once I've seen it.


Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:34 pm
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aworthyboyishe wrote:
And its NOT a children's story.
By any means.



...never said it was.


Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:03 pm
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