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Love Never Dies performed by Sierra 
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Tony Winner
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Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
~Masquerade Dancer~ wrote:
Brock07 wrote:
I think she sounds like Carlotta there at the end.


I agree. Christine is supposed to be different to the other opera singers because of her purity and clarity but I guess LND is set ten years later.


I think that works. She is no longer the young stupid thing she was. She's older, and become the diva that Carlotta was.

She's a MILF!

Actually, when reading the new Penguin translation of Gaston Leroux's novel, I came to realize that he had a different view on it than what ALW has. The new translation has stuck faithfully to the novel Leroux wrote, not cutting large chunks as all other English translations has. If you haven't got that book already - beg, borrow, steal, get it somehow. It's fantastic!

The part about Carlotta:

"Carlotta posessed neither heart nor soul. She was merely an instrument - a wonderful instrument, but an instrument nevertheless! Her repertoire included everything that might benefit an ambitious diva, be it the work of German, Italian or French masters. Until then she had never sung out of tune nor lacked the vocal strength demanded by any part in her vast repertoire. In short, the said instrument was wide-ranging, powerful and perfectly tuned. But no-one could have said to Carlotta what Rossini told Krauss after she had sung "Selva opaca" in German for him: "You sing with your soul, my child, and your soul is beautiful".

Oh, where was your soul, Carlotta, when you danced in the brothels of Barcelona? Where was it later, in Paris, when you performed coarse, roistering songs in seedy music-halls? And again, where was your soul when you let that supple and extraordinary instrument of yours - which could sing, with equal perfection, of sublime love and orgiastic pleasure - demean itself by performing in the salon of one of your lovers? O Carlotta, if you had ever possessed a soul and come to lose it, you would have found it again when you became Juliette, when you sang Elvira, Ophelia or Marguerite! For others have risen from lower depths than you did and were purified by art, attended by love."


(Page 97 in Mireille Ribière's translation)

Carlotta is perfection in voice and technique. But she puts no heart and soul into her singing. She is a will-less instrument. As a contrast, Christine pours her heart and soul into her singing, this is the Phantom's gift to her. Leroux speaks of how Christine sung with "unearthly power", and that she sobbed while singing. There's also the mirror scene dialogue between her and the Phantom:

PHANTOM: You must be very tired
CHRISTINE: Oh, tonight I gave you my soul and I am dead!
PHANTOM: Your soul is a beautiful thing, my child, and I am grateful. No emperor ever received so great a gift. The angels wept tonight.

I know that Andrew Lloyd-Webber has described Christine's uniqueness as having a voice that was purer than Carlotta's. But I do think Leroux's take on it makes more sense. When the Phantom is mocking Carlotta, it is not because she is a bad singer. It is because she lacks soul in her singing, and that's something she will never achieve.

Hence, Christine will probably never become "the diva Carlotta was" either. Especially not when singing the Phantom's music, for him. I think Sierra Boggess' voice towards the end fits well with the power Leroux describes, but I somehow find it oddly misplaced in the song. The transition from the "gentle" singing seems too big.

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Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:28 am
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Post Re: Love Never Dies performed by Sierra
Phanom wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKjrCHfEik Have fun!


Sierra sounded lovely, but the song to me is just meh...nothing special. :?

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Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:59 am
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Tony Winner
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If that song is actually in the show, it has to be the laziest piece of work ALW has ever insulted the theatre-going public with (and I speak as a fan of most of his work). Characters taken from a previous show and recycled songs.

I know it was written for the Phantom sequel originally, and I know ALW (and others) have always recycled work, but even so, it's a poor effort.

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Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:47 am
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That's nothing. You want recycled work, check out Jim Steinman's "effort" in "composing" Tanz der Vampire. He used Meatloaf songs and friggin' Total Eclipse of the Heart #-o

I do have to say, however, that the songs actually ended up working quite well in the show, but I think most of the credit probably goes to the lyricist, Kuntze, for adequately and appropriately translating and altering the lyrics so they actually made some sense in the show.

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Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:35 pm
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Total Eclipse was, I think, Originally written for another vampire musical that never got made, so it was just put back in it's original context. Much like this song really.


Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:14 pm
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Tony Winner
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Mistress wrote:
That's nothing. You want recycled work, check out Jim Steinman's "effort" in "composing" Tanz der Vampire. He used Meatloaf songs and friggin' Total Eclipse of the Heart #-o

I do have to say, however, that the songs actually ended up working quite well in the show, but I think most of the credit probably goes to the lyricist, Kuntze, for adequately and appropriately translating and altering the lyrics so they actually made some sense in the show.


That's very true, and the same is true of every Jim Steinman project or album. However, it may partially explain why Steinman is a great songwriter but has yet to establish himself as a great composer of musicals.

I expected better of ALW. Yes, he has always recycled material, and there's no shame in that. But to recycle something that has previously been publicly performed (in the West End, no less) and use it again in a totally different show for a totally different character, is just lazy.

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Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:33 pm
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jackrussell wrote:
I expected better of ALW. Yes, he has always recycled material, and there's no shame in that. But to recycle something that has previously been publicly performed (in the West End, no less) and use it again in a totally different show for a totally different character, is just lazy.

Performed AND released on CD as a part of another musical. It matters little if he originally wrote the song inspired by the idea of Phantom II, as long as that's not where he decided to use it.

As another phan pointed out elsewhere, ALW originally intended "Memory" for a musical about Puccini. If he suddenly sat down and wrote that musical now, I wonder how many would be OK with him re-using "Memory"? Same with "With one look" as he wrote for the musical "Which Witch" which he in 1990 was about to co-produce (it was perfomed at Sydmonton in 1989). It ended up in "Sunset Boulevard" instead. Would it be OK for him to suddenly insert it into "Which Witch"? NO!

Songs are composed and intended for various purposes, but where they actually end up is just as important. In LND's case, it was used in another musical. It just appears so... cheap of the composer to take the song out of one of his elder musicals, only to insert it into his newest piece. I know recycling is good for the environment, but c'mon!!




ETA. misspelt the name of "memory" - twice... Embarrassing...

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Last edited by operafantomet on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:26 pm
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I don't mind...look at Frank Wildhorn. Only Love was written for Scarlet Pimpernel, got cut in the second broadway reworking and now has a happy home in his new musical Rudolf, where it works because it's a generic love song. As long as the lyrics don't reference plot points or characters they can fly to whatever show they want. lol

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Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:34 pm
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"Ballad of Billy McCaw" was cut from CATS, probably because the Americans wouldn't get the joke. "Next Time You Fall In Love" was added into Starlight Express to replace a far better song. It is exactly the same notes.
"Oh, how well I remember the Ol' Bull and Bush."
"I guess I'm not too good at keeping love alive for long."
Same notes, and the song continues like that.

After the London Cats closed, they added the Ballad back in to the tours, after cutting the song from Starlight, and replacing it with the third version of "Only You"

So if a new production of Beautiful Game was staged, the song would probably be replaced.

That's why it is expected that the tune of "There's Me" is going to turn up.


Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:52 pm
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