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Madam Girey Question... 
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Ahhh... I took Spanish, not French in high school so I didn't understand the whole Madame thing. Thanks for clarifying!

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:47 am
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Tony Winner
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Fantine wrote:
The stage show is different from the film in that aspect. In the stage show it is just a random woman, but in the film she's Madame Giry.

Yes and no - most stage librettis name her specifically as "Madame Giry" (not for the audience to hear, but what's written in the script). It might just indicate that the role is to be played by the same person playing Madame Giry, but a common opinion is that it's meant to be the Madame herself (especially seeing her relationship to the stuff being sold + her attitude towards Raoul). Similar, the guy next to her is the same as whoever plays Piangi, but I have yet to see him being named "Piangi" in the librettis. I assume it's because HE is supposed to be a random guy (Piangi is dead, poor guy), whereas Madame Giry is not.

As for the whole age and year issue.... Little makes sense, no matter the angle. The stage musical was originally meant to be set in the early 1870's - an early Hamburg program specifically writes 1871, and the costume design is 1873-75-ish. Furthermore, most graveyard sets claims 1870 to be the year Daddy Daaé died, and his death was rather recent according to Leroux's book + ALWs stage musical (the movie has a different take on it).

A London WYWSHA lyric even had a verse saying "Three long years I've knelt in silence, held your memory near me... three long years of murmured sorrow, willing you to hear me....." Indicating that his death was three years before WYWSHA, and at least 2,5 years before "Hannibal".

But on an early stage the year was pushed forward to 1881, not quite sure why (maybe to be more in sync with Leroux and the building of Palais Garnier).

The actual auction scene was originally claimed to be set in 1905, but at the same time they wrote that Raoul is "...seventy now, but still bright of eye". So if the auction is in 1905 and Raoul is 70, he must have been.... 46 when the story takes place? Even RUG faced that this made little sense. So the auction scene was pushed forward to 1911, making Raoul "only" 40... hehehe. Had they kept the original 1871/72ish timeline, he would not be more than 30, and everything would make more sense. But alas!

And as for your good point: Madame Giry and the Phantom were in the movie about the same age, and if HE is still around..... Etc. Also, the age gap between Raoul and the Phantom doesn't appear too big in the movie? [/i]

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:00 pm
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Ah I didn't know that was in the Libretto.

Brock07 wrote:
Ahhh... I took Spanish, not French in high school so I didn't understand the whole Madame thing. Thanks for clarifying!


Isn't it the same thing for English titles? It's the same rule for Dutch titles too. Unmarried woman remain Miss (or Ms) with their born surname.

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:55 pm
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Fantine wrote:
Ah I didn't know that was in the Libretto.

Brock07 wrote:
Ahhh... I took Spanish, not French in high school so I didn't understand the whole Madame thing. Thanks for clarifying!


Isn't it the same thing for English titles? It's the same rule for Dutch titles too. Unmarried woman remain Miss (or Ms) with their born surname.


Yes...Mademoiselle is the equivalent of Miss and Madame is the equivalent of Mrs.

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:01 pm
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But it seems in American culture anyway, that eventually a woman becomes maam, verses miss, reguardless of marriage or not (its assumed that they are married, but they may not be). I thought this may happen else where as well.

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:23 pm
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Brock07 wrote:
But it seems in American culture anyway, that eventually a woman becomes maam, verses miss, reguardless of marriage or not (its assumed that they are married, but they may not be). I thought this may happen else where as well.


Ma'am is a sort of formal slang derived from Madam or Madame (which in turn comes from the French for "my lady," ma dame[/].

It's mainly a spoken thing...I'm single and fairly young, but I've had people use "Ma'am" like "What size coffee do you want, ma'am?" It's also a bit more common in the South.

But a woman wouldn't write "Ma'am So-and-So" on her return address or something. It would be "Mrs. So-and-So."

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Paula74 wrote:
Fantine wrote:
Ah I didn't know that was in the Libretto.

Brock07 wrote:
Ahhh... I took Spanish, not French in high school so I didn't understand the whole Madame thing. Thanks for clarifying!


Isn't it the same thing for English titles? It's the same rule for Dutch titles too. Unmarried woman remain Miss (or Ms) with their born surname.


Yes...Mademoiselle is the equivalent of Miss and Madame is the equivalent of Mrs.


I know that.

Brock07 wrote:
But it seems in American culture anyway, that eventually a woman becomes maam, verses miss, reguardless of marriage or not (its assumed that they are married, but they may not be). I thought this may happen else where as well.


Well we are talking about the 19th century here and people were far more into the titles thing back then. I think things have losened up these days.

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Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:48 am
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I'll just make a quick sidenote about how much alike Jennifer Ellison and Miranda Richardson look alike. Uncanny.


Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:59 pm
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I noticed it too. I think it's sweet :)
Real mother and daughter like.

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Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:12 am
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Mistress wrote:
You mean that was actually Patrick Wilson inthe Prologue? 8O I always though that they just got some old guy who could sing decently to do that part...


I'm not sure if Old Raoul is played by Wilson. I'll have to watch the credits.

Even if it's another actor playing the part, Wilson's vocal is looped into the soundtrack.

Andy.

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Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:10 am
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jcstar wrote:
Mistress wrote:
You mean that was actually Patrick Wilson inthe Prologue? 8O I always though that they just got some old guy who could sing decently to do that part...


I'm not sure if Old Raoul is played by Wilson. I'll have to watch the credits.

Even if it's another actor playing the part, Wilson's vocal is looped into the soundtrack.

Andy.


It's Patrick. A friend and I met him last spring. I already assumed it was, but she asked him and he said yes.

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Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:19 am
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I always assume it was The Madame Giry, not Meg. I know Raoul looks really old, but according to Christines grave, she died at 63, 2 years before the auction, so Raoul could just be unfortunate in the aging process.


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