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Omission of Then We Are Decided 
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Tony Winner
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Post Omission of Then We Are Decided
Do you know why this song has never been included in any professional stage production of JCS? I know this may be a weak song but you would probably get more insight into the way the priests plot to get rid of Jesus.


Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:29 pm
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It wasn't part of the set originally; it was added for the film, and a lot of people hated it. Personally, I think it's a great song.


Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm
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It humanized Caiaphas and Annas. They were stupid for taking it out.

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Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:47 pm
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First of all, my opinion on "Then We Are Decided" is that it serves the same purpose as "This Jesus Must Die." The priests explain why they have to bump Jesus off. Having both songs in the show, to me, is a redundancy. I have no opinion on which is better, but I must say that inserting "Then We Are Decided" anywhere in the show interrupts the natural flow of the opera.

A) They weren't stupid, their hands were tied. MCA/Universal owns publishing on it, RUG owns the rest of the show. Until ALW decides it's time to pony up cash and include the song as part and parcel, it's a dead issue. It's extra money to them anyway for usage, which is a p.i.a.

B) I always said that if I ever stage JCS, I'll do something no one has ever done before. Aside from the libretto for my fan staging (written with the help of Laz and Jonny G at http://www.freewebs.com/jcsfarewellad_themusical), one of the things I swore to do (in previews of my JCS run) was to do some shows with "Then We Are Decided" and not "This Jesus Must Die," and some shows vice versa, and see what got a better response. I still intend to do so when I pursue the rights for JCS in July of next year. This means extra money out of my pocket to MCA/Universal, but I want to see what works better from a dramatic standpoint and not so much what worked on a record.

I'll keep you all posted.

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Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:54 pm
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I always liked Then We Are Decided. Its a great song, and I think you could quite easily have both it and Jesus Must Die. TWAD looks more closely at why the priests want to get rid of Jesus, as he disrupts their priesthood, the people, the Romans etc. JMD only really talks about Jesus being dangerous so they to dispose of him. TWAD helps give an insight more to the characters of Annas and Caiaphas, i.e. Annas tries to convince Caiaphas that Jesus does not need to be killed etc, and can just be left alone. You do have a point that they are similar, but I think you could quite easily (obviously this is ignoring rights) have both in a production without them being redundant.

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Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:34 pm
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Let's hone this down a bit.

THEN WE ARE DECIDED:
- Why the priests want to get rid of Jesus (he disrupts their priesthood, has a way with the people, the Romans wouldn't be pleased)

THIS JESUS MUST DIE
- Why the priests want to get rid of Jesus (has a way with the people, the Romans wouldn't be pleased)

About the only thing not similar is them saying that he disrupts their priesthood, and that one song has more soloists than the other. Also, historically, Annas was Caiaphas' father-in-law, much older, a rather impish man who considers his whims the will of the people and wants them satisfied, and not trying to convince Caiaphas Jesus doesn't need to be killed, so much as frightening Caiaphas into just ordering him killed.

That said, take "Then We Are Decided" and try to place it in any spot in the live stage production. That's just it - like I said at first, you can't. Even in the '73 film its placing is a little off. It interrupts the natural flow of the opera. "Strange Thing Mystifying" has to go right into "Everything's Alright" because the rising line of dramatic tension is carrying on...Judas is still pissed, and seeing Mary trying to convince Jesus nothing's wrong and to relax is not helping the situation.

Others have suggested TWAD just before TJMD, but that doesn't make sense either then, because, while the contrast is still there between Jesus and his disciples attempting to relax and then finding Caiaphas and his priests aren't breathing any easier now that they know his movements, it makes the scene with the priests too long and one song only serves to reinforce the established point of the other (commonly known as "beating a dead horse"), i.e. that Jesus has to die.

Both songs make dramatic sense, and one is more interesting than the other, but one can't have both for the reasons I stated above, in my opinion anyway. That's why, when I stage JCS in July, in previews I will do some shows with TWAD, some shows with TJMD, and maybe one or two shows with both. Whichever does better with audiences and makes more dramatic sense will become the norm for my production.

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Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:04 pm
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The most likely reason for non inclusion is that the copyright for the song belongs to the film studio. To use it in a stage production would need a separate negotation/fee.


Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:42 am
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We've established that fact. I veered into a discussion of artistic reasons not to include it.

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Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:55 pm
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Post Re: Omission of Then We Are Decided
Yip1982 wrote:
Do you know why this song has never been included in any professional stage production of JCS? I know this may be a weak song but you would probably get more insight into the way the priests plot to get rid of Jesus.


It was in fact included in the 2003 Remscheid show and it has also been featured in the Volendammer cast and in the Chile cast recordings.

All of these shows have been recorded. The 2003 Remscheid show has even had a official release.

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Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:23 pm
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And it was also included in the 2004-05 UK tour produced by Bill Kenwright, according to reviews.

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Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:19 pm
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It gives insight as to why Annas convinces his son-in-law to have Jesus killed. Annas plants the seed in TWAD then he forces Caiphas' hand in TJMD by filling the other Priests with doubts and fear.

"Jesus is important" Caiaphas says. He KNOWS that he's in a "major war" he cannot win, so he is resigned to it. Life goes on. The reason why he is concerned about the Priesthood is because he wants to save face for his father-in-law.
He also knows that the people ar losing faith in him as a leader. He is up against some carpenter who thinks he's a King! He is clearly not fit to be the High Priest. Let's face it, he could have jailed Jesus ANYTIME HE WANTED, but didn't. Why?

a) Caiaphas knew that Jesus was the next big thing
b) he is weak and can't make a strong decision
c) I have often thought that Caiaphas might have been thinking of becoming a follower of Christ.

Annas knows this and starts to play with Caiaphas' weakened state of mind.
Annas sees the power that Jesus has and he wants it for himself. He wants to be high Priest. He knows how to make decisions. He has the ego.
So, he says "bring it to the council" and they'll give you suggestions. But, Annas really means that he will sway the Council to take up the cause and kill Jesus. Annas then convinces Caiaphas that there is only one solution.
Remember, this song happens on Friday night... the same night as "WTB/STM" so when we get to TJMD, a couple of days have passed and Caiaphas has thought about what must be done.

TJMD happens on Palm Sunday. Caiaphas is still trying to debate whether to go through with what he and Annas talked about.
Caiaphas, let's not forget, admires Jesus. Jesus COULD be a meal ticket for the disillusioned Priest.
Annas has other ideas. He wants Jesus dead. Plain and simple. He wants to kill Christ for power and recognition.
He gets under Caiaphas' skin about how big and succesful Jesus is and the other Priests (swayed by Annas) look at Jesus like they did when John was baptising in the Jordan river.
Caiaphas, irritated, lashes out. Again to save face in front of his collegues and people, he goes along with the plan. He doesn't know that Annas is running the show. But it's not important anymore. He's lost control and he wants to make it look like he's doing the right thing.

TWAD and TJMD are two completely different conversations. Even Mr. Zolli has unique insiught to each song. He even said to me "It breaks my heart that TWAD can't be officially added to the show because it explains so much about Annas and Caiaphas."

And, no Gibby, it doesn't disrupt thbe flow of the opera. Between WTB/STM and EA is the perfect place for it.

Andy.

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Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:53 pm
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Brother Marvin Hinten, S. wrote:
And it was also included in the 2004-05 UK tour produced by Bill Kenwright, according to reviews.


I saw that production and they did include it.


Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:52 am
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