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Secret meanings within the songs and actions? 
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Fresh Face
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Jman383 wrote:
Well, actually, they didn't write any of the plotlines in act one, besides the fact that they're side by side. Everything in Act 1 of ITW is directly from the Grimm fairy tales. Sondheim is only responsible for the songs, and Lapine for the exact dialogue used, nothing more. The stories and plotlines were written hundreds of years ago, so the symbolism wasn't invented by those men, even despite their brilliance.


Um... how about The Baker's story? And the beans were not mentioned in the Rapunzel story. Please, how could the MM have raped the Witch without her knowing? (I let him go I didn't know he'd stolen my beans!) And so somehow her stolen virginity sprouts into Jack's penis? And why do you go on about penises? Rapunzel is not inside a giant penis (can you imagine? LOL) and I think your idea that all fairy tales are sexual stories is just untrue. Some of these were just told to kids, and eventually got written down. You still playing the perverted game? And so please explain further.


Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:13 pm
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Fresh Face
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Post Re: Secret meanings within the songs and actions?
No offense, but I think allot of the Freudian symbology was unintentional, simply because the focus of the show is parenthood. Yes with Red Riding Hood there is that deliberate sexual ambiguity, but that's because that's what the story (at least from the interpretation I like and am going with) is about and why the Wolf is often doubled with Cinderella's Prince. It also foreshadows in a way 'Any Moment' with the Prince's shall we say devouring of the Baker's Wife. I think the 'vow' that Little Red broke was in fact the promise she made to her mother that she wouldn't stray from the path. Again this could be the path of chastity but for the function of the plot it's more the Witch pointing out the stupid things they'd done to get what they want, in Little Red's case straying from the path to enjoy herself and finish the food rather than delivering it to her (not-so) sweet Granny. The results of which led to not only her and Granny's near death, but may have also given her the bravado to dare Jack (She may have done that anyway, she is certainly bratty enough at the start...). Whether Little Red was in any way to blame for the Giantess is debatable because all 'Your Fault' does is point out that it was a group effort, but she's hardly helped the situation.
As for the others, I doubt it. Phalic symbols are easy to point out, but doesn't mean they are necersarily so, intentionally at least. I don't mean to completely dismiss your arguement, it's your opinion and your free to have it and I could most definately be wrong (I'm neither Sondheim or Lapine). Yes discovering your sexuality is an integral part of growing up and there are those sort of themes with Jack and Rapunzel's stories but Rapunzel's story is more about the Witch, that you can't just hide your children from the world to protect them. In the end the world will find them and will completely crush them as they aren't prepared to deal with it and they'll only blame you. In the end you loose what you loved. And the Witch is in no doubt following a cycle (it is implied she failed her mother in a similar way during 'Lament' and the world rolled her too, explaining her cynical or realistic world view), as with the Baker and his father, both running away when everything got too difficult. The difference between them was that the Baker broke the cycle and no doubt his son will be better for it. The cycle is part of the heritage that is passed down from parent to child, with the most damaging thing being black and white world views. Jack caused so much damage because he didn't think of Giant's being people too, no doubt told Giant's were inhuman and that it is ok to kill them, same with Little Red and wolves. Of course it's not, it's like saying people of a certain race are ok to kill because they're not the same as you (I believe Jack would succum very easy to Nazi propoganda...).
Going back to the sexuality in Jack's plot line, I think you're misreading it a little. It never mentions him growing, just the Bean Stalk and I doubt that's what the creators intended it to stand for, I think they just used it because it's the plot. The Giantess holding Jack to her breast (can't remember if it's been mention at the stage but no doubt it has) is more of a maternal thing, that's where you would hold a small child, close to your chest. It's adding to the fact she gave him food, shelter, comfort and security. Which makes Jack's actions even more unintentionally callous as he at no point thought of what the gold, or the hen or the harp was for her.
I want to go on about the parenting aspects (there is a lovely parrallel between all the father and mother figures in the show) but I think I've said enough.


Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:25 am
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Fresh Face
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Post Re: Secret meanings within the songs and actions?
I find it interesting Jman hasn't responded.


Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:28 pm
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Fresh Face
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Post Re: Secret meanings within the songs and actions?
I have always seen the Wolf as symbolizing a child molester or serial killer. "There's no possible way to describe what you feel, when you're talking to your meal."


Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:26 am
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