Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| Vichysois |
Why make Judas so difficult a role?Just something that I find curious. Why write music for a character that is extremely dangerous and taxing to perform? Ben Vereen, Carl Anderson, et al risked serious vocal injury playing Judas night after night. Why write a role that is so dangerous?An obvious answer is the spectacle - the impressive feat of playing the role well, but that answer feels hollow. An alternative question is this: Did ALW purposefully make the role a suicide mission, or did he just write things that sounded good? Bigger question is of course, how much weight does a composer give to the realities of voice types? Do they simply write things that sound good, and then look at it upon completion and say "Ah, this one's a soprano." Or do they go in saying "this character is a soprano" and write the music accordingly? |
||||
| Mungojerrie_rt |
I dare say they have some idea of what range the character will be based on what works for the character, but they probably still write songs that suit, regardless of specific range. | ||||
| the.emcee |
I think the role of Jesus is much more demanding if you don't have the "rock " voice like Ted Neely. It gets pretty hard hard to hit the high 'C' note eight times a week...
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY SHOULD I DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?????? |
||||
| Pannic |
He said Judas, not Jesus.
As for voice parts, I don't think many musical theatre composers really pay attention to voice parts. Not since Leonard Bernstein (I looked at a copy of the score a while back, and they actually had the voice parts next to the characters' names on the character list), anyway. Pinning down the voice types seems to lie with people like Richard Walters, who try to put together those special songbooks. I imagine Andrew Lloyd Webber just wrote a lot of music that sounds like rock and roll, and as we all know, rock and roll music tends to lie in the high tenor register. Except for Caiaphas, who is almost trying to make sure you know he's a bass. Of course, I'm probably completely wrong, but come on. Melchior in Spring Awakening singing a low G? Che in Evita with a low F? |
||||
| SomeoneLikeYou |
Which means I know exactly who will be playing that part in the production where I cast myself as Mary Magdalene. Right, Pannic? |
||||
| MunkustrapQC |
Re: Why make Judas so difficult a role?
It's not because Murray Head sang Judas' part the way it's known (on the concept album) that ALW wrote it that way.
Most of performers who played Jesus used their falsettos for those high notes. It makes it easy. Judas can't use falsettos (or it sounds really bad with the emotions of the character in "Judas' Death", for example). That's why I think Judas is a lot harder. |
||||
| Pannic |
As per Jesus falsettos on high notes, yeah. Even I can hit those. |
||||
| Vichysois |
Che has a low F, and a High C? Wtf! A lot of "baritones" don't even have a low F...neverminding the "tenors" who don't have a high C... As much as I enjoy the music....ALW really pisses me off sometimes. But yeah. I don't think Jesus' extreme highs would be the most taxing parts of the role. Sustaining a high tessitura (G4 and above) would be the more demanding aspect. And for the record, Jesus' highest would be a G5 (edit: see post below), not a soprano C. |
||||
| Pannic |
Che has a high C? I never heard that. Mandy Patinkin does have a falsetto high F, though. But he does have what seems to be a low F in "Peron's Latest Flame." Some low note, could be an F, F#, or G, not completely sure.
As for Jesus Falsetto, that's not actually written in the score. It says "Vocal Ad Lib," with a simple default. The highest note written in Gethsemane is an Ab. Alot of people do a high G because that's what Fenholt and Neely did. |
||||
| Vichysois |
I had heard that Che had a high C...my post was more of a question than a statement.
And yeah, I've seen some notation where that bit of Gethsemane is written as an ad lib. I should have said "his highest would be a high G" based on the associations people have. Glenn Carter did the falsetto G like Neely also...and I've heard others (their names escape me). So I figured it was something of an accepted thingy - one of those items where a well-known performers improv or contribution becomes something of the standard. |
||||
| jcstar |
Ian Gillan of Deep Purple created the high G in "Gethsemane" on the original record.
Andy. |
||||
| Vichysois |
^ Ah, well, you would know 
|
||||
| MunkustrapQC |
I prefer Neeley's falsettos than Carter's. Carter's aren't powerful like Neeley's! I saw him in Montreal a year ago and he still can hit it (not as well as before, but still!!) The guy's amazing! |
||||
| mgalmonicar |
Hello I am new to this forum. Hope to stay long. | ||||
| mgalmonicar |
Hello there I do some research but I found it here something that is new with all my heart. http://www.jesuspoops.com | ||||
| MunkustrapQC |
bot? | ||||
| Vichysois |
Good call. He emoted the hell out of the lyrics, but his falsetto sounded less powerful and too starkly different from the rest of his tone. I enjoy Steve Balsamo's performance...it's somewhere in between Neeley and Carter. |
||||
| Yakko |
Steve Balsamo is to me THE greatest Jesus EVER! |
||||
| Jekkienumber24601 |
Steve's my favorite Jesus as zubin varla is my favorite judas. That recording is nearly perfect. If only they had a barry dennen like Pilate instead of an operatic baritone. | ||||
| MunkustrapQC |
I always thought the exact same thing. Balsamo's performance as Jesus is less powerful/rock than Neeley's, but way better than Carter's. I see Balsamo's Jesus as a Broadway-type character, less than a rock 'n' roll performance like Neeley's, Fenholt's or..hum... Sebastian Bach 
|
||||
| operafantomet |
Re: Why make Judas so difficult a role?
ALW has always had a preference for writing extreme roles - extreme as in vocally exhausting. His lead roles are on stage almost all the time, and their range is huge. Judas, Evita, Christine... Many of his songs are also a marathon of vocal effort, covering two or three octaves, having long and high notes, demanding different styles of singing. Gethsemane is one example the "Phantom of the Opera" title song another, and take a pick in "Evita"... This is often contrasted with Sondheim's work, where the rhythm and style is what's challenging (Sondheim is often accused of writing "unhummable" songs), and not necessarily the range and tempo. This might be positive or negative, main thing is that the difficult roles are well written and very impressive in the hands of a singer who handles it. If a singer breaks his/her neck (or rather, voice) when doing the role, I would say it's a miscast rather than a flaw in the role. Eventually, it's time to put in an alternate to ease the burden of the principal singer. |
||||
| Heavylove |
Another idea is that if he wrote the part with a particular singer in his head other that not having that range could find it silly hard to sing.
Besides I think both musicalgoers and actors/actress like songs that you cant sing at everydays caraoke shows buts a bit tougher and more challenging to get right. And ALW is known to often slide into the opera segments in songs (Like Old Deotoronomy in Cats.) |
||||
| SomeoneLikeYou |
Very well said, operafantomet. | ||||
| jcstar |
The role of Judas (and the other leads in JCS, as well as other ALW shows) often have very complex psychological profiles. There is not enough time in the day to explain them all.
I think that's what motivates his pieces. The idea for a character is created and discussed by the authors and they decide what works for that character. Plus, playing a challenging character is always fun. I disagree with something though. Most JCS fan s want to see the actors and actresses cough up their lungs in the show. If not, they're not trying hard enough. Andy. |