Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| ilovemusicals |
Why is thinner usually considered more attractive?Just a question...possibly relating to theatre. I find that casting for lead heroines seems to take size into the casting process...Just in the culture we live in, why do we find being thin(I am not talking about anorexic or gross skinniness)generally more attractive? Maybe we have been brainwashed by the media a little, but personally I do find slim people, at least in that aspect to look better... What are your thoughts on this?? Have you had any experience with this coming into the picture in your acting? |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
People find certain ratios (hip to waist, for example) to be more attractive than others (which actually changes by ethnicity). It actually stays true though even for larger men or women, but I think also things like double-chins, love handles, etc. tend to make people look less attractive in a lot of peoples' eyes. | ||||||
| JIJane |
Wow I could write another book on this subject alone!
To sum it up - yes, it matters what size you are. In terms of young, ingenue roles or handsome leading men for sure. Also for other parts it can matter. And not just in Hollywood. People just have perceptions of how certain characters and parts should look and that is what you are constantly fighting against if you are not the "norm". Long, slim legs have always been considered attractive, as have small waists and slim arms. There are always exceptions to the rule but you will not find an overweight Juliet in a professional theatre production. It just won't happen. If it does, do let me know! The theatre (especially musical theatre) is usually about going to see something that is NOT like everything you can see on the street or living next door to you - and that includes the people in them and the attractiveness level. Of course it depends on the play or musical, I realise that. Jerry Springer obviously requires the exact opposite casting of say Oklahoma. Why is slimmer more attractive? Well, in terms of dance it is easier to get around due to your body mass distribution, etc. It's also easier for a guy to lift you and it looks better when you jump, etc. You have more freedom in your movement as you are not restricted by extra weight, you can jump higher, etc. In terms of clothes, they hang better on slimmer people generally. These are not necessarily just my opinions but those I have heard of industry people around me and those casting. Also - being a certain size and height is easier in terms of costuming as they can use costumes from the year before, the understudy can have the same costume as the lead, etc etc. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
http://digg.com/health/Is_there_a_legal_right_to_be_obese | ||||||
| Set_Buildin_Dad |
I would sat that fit is a better term than thin. That doesn't need to be thin, but it can be. I know several people with different body types. Those who are toned and fit (no matter if they are "thin") are more attractive to me. | ||||||
| Salome |
In the words of Ciaron.."Nobody likes a fatty" | ||||||
| Orestes Fasting |
I don't think the OP was talking about gross obesity--more like the tendency to cast a stick figure over someone with (*gasp*) curves. And body fat.
Hell, I'm a stick figure myself and I think it's disturbing that any girl over a size 6 feels pressured to lose weight. Having a figure is healthy and attractive, ladies--no less so than being able to squeeze yourself into a pair of jeans designed for an anorexic thirteen-year-old, and more so if you'd have to starve yourself to get there. |
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| BwayJuvinile |
what ever happened to them and the old crowd? Also I am a firm believer you can either be over weight, or fit, the people in the middle ground need to choose what they want to be for theatre purposes. I also think that the world would be a better place if everyone tried to be physically fit. |
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| LaurelDP |
Does anyone think fat is attractive? The only people that ever ask this question are fat people that think they're beautiful, or wish they were. Or just highly sympathetic people. | ||||||
| ConverseSneaker |
Well...millions of years ago, people thought that fat was attractive(Venus of Willendorf is a great example!) because that meant you were able to get enough food. When people started liking thin people, idk. |
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| Salome |
when people realized that thin was heathy and too much fat wasnt | ||||||
| blue wind |
i find fit people attractive because it means that they are healthy and workout or at least take care of themselves. if somebody is really fat, on average it means this person probably wasn't making a huge effort to eat healthy and workout.
i understand there are other things that go into it like genetics and medical issues...but basically that's the way i see it. |
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| wicked_boy |
I hate it when fat girls ask me if they're fat. I can't excactly say "Yes, you are, but I don't really mind if you are. But I'll never date you because I fancier normal sized girls."
I just think that being fat is unhealthy. It depends on what you find attractive in a person as to whether you find fat people attractive. |
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| home |
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| shakalakababy |
Well...aren't there fat fetishes? anyways i agree with setbuildingddad. It's not so much about being thin, as being fit. I definitely know thin people that based on appearance couldn't really be an ingenue so i don't think thin necessarily equals ingenue. |
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| PappyCat |
I don't think it's true for all people. I've had plenty of guys who were much thinner than me express interest. Making blanketed statements about how nobody finds fat to be attractive really is ignorant. I think most people find lazy to be unattractive.
To be honest, I've always felt that my big fat mouth was way more of an obstacle for men to overcome than my big fat body. But yeah, I'd rather not get into a huge debate like previously over this. I dunno, I've always found bigger guys to be more attractive. And most of them women whom I think are attractive are bigger than hollywood normal. Bigger Celebrities that PappyCat finds attracive: 
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| mastachen |
I was talking to a girl about what she would want to hear in such a situation. In a situation such as... Girl: Does this dress make me look fat? What you can say is: This dress does not complement your figure. Of course, afterwards, in a real life setting, I totally screwed that up. What I said was: Your figure does not complement the dress. 
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| PappyCat |
Ugh, I would never ask if something made me look fat. What an awkward position to put someone in! | ||||||
| Salome |
they are all repulsive sexually. |
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| Quique |
LOL, Salome. XD | ||||||
| PappyCat |
Different strokes, for different folks. |
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| shakalakababy |
yeah, i mean as much as we wish we could no one can truly define what's hot and what's not. It's just up to personal preference. However (maybe unfortunately) there are set standards for theater, for ingenues at least. | ||||||
| MaryMag |
Heavy people got no lines when they dance. It's gonna sound crass, but you can't see what the hell is happening when a 160 pound woman is dancing. When a 100 pound ballerina just lifts her right arm and has a nice little tilt in her wrist, it moves me to tears.
But this is me sitting in the nosebleed seats of a 800 seat theater. I then see the same 100 pound girl in ballet class the next week and vomit when I count all her ribs and notice that she has an adult sized head, but child sized limbs. Freaks me out. Really skinny people's heads are too big for their bodies sometimes. |
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| Bristian |
That's awful. Honestly. Why would you quote somebody making a comment like that, agree with them, and be serious? Don't you realize how mean that is? I find that very offensive. The simple fact that you do not know any of those people personally that PappyCat posted pictures of, yet you can see if you would be attracted to them. You don't even know them! That is what true love should be and what sex should be about, actually loving the person for who they are and not what they look like. I am sure you would not like it if you heard somebody say "Nobody likes a smoker" or "Nobody likes a drinker" and you would be hurt. Those are pathetic habits that you can control. Some people can not control their weight. You should learn somebody's situation before you judge them. Or maybe you should just try to speak to them before you can judge them... You really need to learn to re-phrase things and say them nicely. This isn't the first time you have said something that upsets somebody. Although you may have a lot of knowledge about theatre and everything going on here, it doesn't give you any reason to say mean things to people. Sorry if this came out mean or whatever. I didn't mean for it to, but honestly, I really think you need to start living in this world instead of the fake reality you have where only skinny people are the pinnacle of perfection and fat people are repulsive pigs. |
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| mastachen |
She doesn't find those people attractive. End of story. I'm sorry, but if I'm in a bar and I want to hit on a girl, I'm gonna start by judging them by their looks, and then choose a girl that best fits my perception of what I find attractive or not. I'm not gonna poll every women and see which one fits my personality best and then start talking to her. I think Dawn is basically saying that if she was in a bar, she wouldn't hit on those people. And what you're stating here is a double-standard of sorts here. You say that true love should be about loving a person for who they are and not what they look like, so Dawn can't say she doesn't like any of them. Then by your logic, how can Pappy say that she likes them? I doubt that Pappy knows any of them personally either.
No they're not. Alcoholism has just as much of a genetic predisposition as obesity (I'm not calling Dawn an alcoholic). And smoking creates a chemical dependance, meaning that your body sends out chemical signals making you want more, and it physically and emotionall hurts when you're deprived of it. The opposite of that is a physical dependance, where you just want it because it feels good, but you're ok without it. |
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| Orestes Fasting |
Aww look, an idealist.
Bristian honey, ignore Salome like everyone else with sense does. It's pretty much impossible to distinguish when she knows what she's talking about and when she's talking out her ass: either way she slaps her opinion down like the law, and instead of backing up her post when challenged she just insults anyone who disagrees. Since it's impossible to tell whether or not she's talking bullshit, you might as well not listen to a thing she says. Or, y'know, argue with her, but you won't get anywhere except being called names. |
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| Holly |
alcoholism is a genetic predisposition but it can be controlled. (runs in my family majorly - my dad and several other alcoholics i know were able to overcome it.) you're totally right on all your info and everything, and i disagree with the "pathetic habits" part of what Bristian said, but they still can be controlled. |
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| Trevor reincarnate |
I agree. Except for Sara Ramirez. She's effing hot. |
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| mastachen |
Yeah my main issue with his post was calling it "pathetic habits." Smoking and alcoholism and overeating all can be controlled, but I don't think one thing is easier to control than the other, which is what he/she is saying. |
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| Beagle On Stage |
It should be pretty easy to tell when she knows what she's talking about if YOU know what YOU'RE talking about. And if you don't, well......... |
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| Orestes Fasting |
Yeah, but that doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know. The fact that her sense is indistinguishable from her nonsense means she adds zilch to the conversation--except rudeness and hostility. |
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| LaurelDP |
Fat people generally aren't physically attractive, but are useful in some ways, guys.
Being unattractive is not the end of the world. So at least we're not a useless breed. |
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| PappyCat |
I have a friend whose wife is quite slender, but he thinks that Queen Latifah is about the hottest thing EVER.
I guess what I'm saying is that there will never be a universal attractive. We all jive on different things. Physically, I'm REALLY attracted to guys with big noses. Like Adrian Brody. Mmmm. I know PLENTY of people who really don't find him attractive. Trevor and Salome don't find the people I find attractive to be attractive. I'm sure I'd feel the same way about some of the people on their lists. I'm glad we are all into different things. I'd go out and say that less than 3% of the people on this forum actually meet the standard of beauty that is put out by the media...That is, people who are found to be attractive by nearly everyone. A lot of times, the male celebrities who lots of women fawn over, I don't find all that attractive. I don't particularly find muscles to be all that attractive. Anyway, I guess it all comes down to preference. |
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| Xxmcfly85xX |
^ Well said pappycat. I really think that it's one of those topics where you have to agree to disagree, because 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. | ||||||
| Mumsytype |
Now THAT is a sensible, mature, and non-confrontational statement. |
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| fjays |
agreed.. completely. and some of those celebrities you posted pictures of i find gorgeous. the girls at least. in a 'oh theyre pretty!' kind of way though. however, i do not find my self attracted to the men at all (or the women.. lol) but yes.. why is thinner considered prettier? oh if i knew the answer it would save me alot of time and many hours of starving myself. and you know what.. i blame the media and damned ol' hollywood. nobody is pretty enough for them and if anyone gains weight, its the end of the world. but, in theatre, i guess i do understand weight issues. sometimes. if the role depends on the actor being a certain specific way, or they must do something in particular, such as get thrown into the air gracefully or such, then perhaps a larger girl aint what is needed. but if the character doesnt have anything such as that, then why can't there be a larger, curvier actor in their place? |
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 |
Very well put, Pappy.
Just an add-on: After our last concert, some of my choirfellows and I were discussing a girl who was in the audience, a former member of the choir. One of the younger girls in the chorus (8th grader) said, "Oh, Jenny's so pretty and skinny. She should be on America's Next Top Model!" To which one of our tenors, a high-school sophomore, replied, "Yeah, but a girl has to have something on her. You can't even hug a girl if there's bones sticking out of her shoulders!" Which made me laugh, but ... in other words, to each his/her own. |
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 |
So right. I'm a size 6 or sometimes a 4 myself and I've felt pressured to lose weight ... basically my whole life. I'm curvy, I've got something of a butt and more than something of a chest. Since I'm not "overweight," weight loss isn't going to change my basic figure. But excessive weight loss could make me ... how you say ... unhealthy. |
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| Salome |
WAS hot in spamalot. not on grey's anatomy. |
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| wicked_boy |
Whoever has been saying that overweight people aren't attractive on this thread are 1) Self - centered and narrow minded and 2) Just pure ignorant.
Seriously, some guys find other guys attractive, some girls find other girls attractive, some thin people finder larger people attractive, some people love MT, some people love football, isn't this just preference? Salome, you seem to be saying that it is "set in stone" that fat people are ugly. Is that what you're trying to say? Or am I seeing it as an extreme? |
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| erinmylungs |
I am overweight but I have a larger structure and I have the height to be able to pull most of it off. Though, I do admit I could do with loosing some of it for theatre purposes and for my well-being. I just think that if you look, feel and appear healthy, it's all good. :] | ||||||
| DaddyDiesel |
It is funny what people thinkis sexy but everybody is differant. I cannot look at most models these days not get repulsed. I like a girl with a curves and fit. Jessica biel would be a good example or sandra bullock before she got overly skinny. But kiera knightly, paris hilton, and Cameron diaz do not turn me on at all. Will except kieras smile and eyes. | ||||||
| jesuiscommejesuis |
[Mod edit: comment officially deleted as it's an attack on another Forum member.] | ||||||
| Joshua |
Same here. |
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| Salome |
[quote="jesuiscommejesuis"]
blue carded. |
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| Joshua |
And it was necessary to announce it to us?
Bravo Salome for Blue Carding someone!!!!! |
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| Orestes Fasting |
This also needed to be said. So badly. Girls: STOP tying up your self-worth in your appearance. Stop whining about how nobody will want you if you don't lose that last five pounds, as if being hot and getting a boyfriend is your entire purpose in life. Find something else to measure your value as a human being, I don't care if it's intelligence or physical fitness or money or what, as long as you do it for its own sake and not because "guys like a [smart/sporty/rich] girl." You were not put on this earth solely to please guys. |
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| MaryMag |
Let me just sum up the rest of this thread, as I have heard the same things said in many a previous post:
Pappycat: Overweight is hot. I am overweight and dislike it and I compensate for it by convincing myself that overweight is not unattractive. LaurelDP: I have a healthy attitude towards being overweight. It's not crushing me. I am mentally well adjusted and will not lie to myself till I believe it. Orestes Fasting: [some sort of grand wisdom] salome: lalalalala, i'm sooooooooo skinny yall! I'm really only of average weight, but I'm gonna brag about it so much that yall think I'm like nicole richie sized. random posters who chat with salome on AIM: heyyyyy don't be mean to salome random posters who used to chat with salome on AIM: [over the top animosity here] marymag: can we please stop arguing over whether or not fat is beautiful? overweight is NOT beautiful in contemporary American culture. It is in other cultures and other time periods, but not now. And stop being superficial and crying a river or giving yourself mental complexes about not being every man's ideal of beauty. We're all plenty ugly, inside and out. |
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| Joshua |
marymag: i'm gonna be the omniscient mediator and sum up this thread.
joshua: 
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 |
While not necessarily totally accurate, MaryMag's post gave me a laugh.
I will sum up my position in as few sentences as possible, and I'll try not to post on this thread anymore: It is possible to be fat and beautiful. It is possible to be fat and ugly. It is possible to be skinny and beautiful. It is possible to be skinny and ugly. It is very possible to not be physically beautiful and still be an amazing kick-ass person. |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
MaryMag <33 | ||||||
| LisaKitty |
I <3 curlyhairedsoprano91. That was the most awesome post in this entire thread. | ||||||
| PappyCat |
MaryMag, I used to really like you. This really just dropped my respect for you a lot. You are putting words into my mouth. While It's true that I really don't hate myself for my weight I am NOT one of those girls who walk around yelling "Fat is fabulous!" "Fat is sexy!" "I love being fat!" What I am arguing against is this idea that Salome and other people are bringing forth that "Nobody likes a fatty" and "Fat is sexually repulsive" and other extremely ignorant views. Everyone has different tastes...I've met plently of guys who aren't attracted to fat women, I've met plenty of guys (and these aren't guys with fetishes) who are attracted to bigger women, I've met plenty of guys who don't really have a preference when it comes to weight. To be honest, I find a variety of different sized men attractive. The actor who plays Cliff on Ugly Betty (the guy that isn't Kevin James that I posted earlier) is super foxy in my opinion. I also find Will Smith, who is very fit, to be attractive. Open up a People's sexiest man of the year magazine and I probably wouldn't be jiving on that many of them. I have a different taste. But it isn't one set "type." For the record, I do think a curvier woman like Sara Ramirez and Queen Latifah is more attractive than, say, Scarlett Johannson (Who I do think is very pretty.) This wouldn't be what most people would say, but it's what I think. I'm not even shaped like Sara or Latifah, so this isn't a fat pride thing. I've known many many people who were attracted to someone despite the fact that they had something about them that kept them from being the classic beauty. Be that a big nose on a woman, a short man, small eyes, whatever. There are standards that NOBODY on this forum lives up to. So MaryMag, get off your high horse and stop treating me like I'm some fattie who got up on a soapbox and was yelling "skinny bitches suck! lets all get fat!" If that's what you think I was doing, than you need to read a little more carefully. |
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| Quique |
I think many chubby people are absolutely adorable! | ||||||
| Joshua |
Like me? 
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| Quique |
Yes!
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| Quique |
OK, not my cup of tea (bit too large)...but this guy sure diggs it!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pve2V469Q9M |
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| Joshua |
Okay I'm not trying to be mean, but that was disturbing and repulsive. And then she fell off the bed... |
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| shakalakababy |
yes i agree with you wholeheartedly. I think anyone who actually read through this whole post would see what you meant (though it's clear some didn't and just made assumptions). And I personally think women like Sara Ramirez and Queen Latifah are very attractive. I wouldn't even call them fat necessarily (well Sara at least). I think Sara is a good example of a healthy, curvy, toned women. And the fact that she's a size 12, and i'm a size 12 gives me hope i must say. |
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 |
I know I said I wasn't going to post here anymore, but I lied.
Quique ... as much as I like you, that video was a little inappropriate in my opinion. What we're trying to do here is open a discourse on different standards of beauty. What that was ... I don't know what that was. But it was certainly dehumanizing and not at all what I thought this discussion was about.
Thank you. I <3 you, too. |
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| Quique |
Hmmm, I thought this thread was getting a bit heated and I thought we could use a laugh. Oh well. I didn't mean to offend, but if I did, I apologize.
Btw, I really meant what I said about the adorableness of some overweight people. I realize posting the vid right after might've made it seem like I was being sarcastic. |
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 |
All is well. 
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| Bianca. |
I'm going to start this off by saying that I have been every size from a 00 to an 18 in the past 10 years, and I hold no bias in that sense, because I have been in every situation.
Pappy, I hate to say it, but as much as you say you are not preaching OMGFATISFABULOUS, it's reading exactly the way MaryMag stated. "I am fat, and I don't like it, so I will compensate for that by making you all think I am fat because I want to be and it's hot, and not because I can't change it" It may not be what you mean, but at least in my case (and I'm fairly positive a few others as well), your arguments seem guarded and barbed in that respect. That, however, does nothing to defer the truth in your main points. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and Yes, some people of larger stature can be found incredibly attractive by some people. That does NOT, however, take away from the fact that in professional theatre, there is a job to be done, and people to be pleased. It is simply more commonly attractive to a greater public audience to see thin, if not at least fit, bodies and lines on stages, vs. overweight and obese ones. As someone stated before, You need to be Fit, or Fat. and anyone in between will have a very hard time finding their place. If you don't have the right body for a part, in the real world of theatre.. there is sure to be a line out the door and around the corner full of girls that DO. There is nothing we can do about that. And to all of you attacking each other over the sarcastic quoting of lone gone Ciaron(RIP)... *shakes head* I don't even know what to say to that. It's clearly a "face the facts" sarcastic humorous comment about the reality of theatre. It doesn't mean that if your left thigh slightly jiggles when you poke it.. that you are a horrid human being and should be exiled, killed, and fed to other fatties. Come on now, step away from your computers, and take a second to breathe. Jeeeeez! |
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| Quique |
Yay! =) For the record, I didn't think it was dehumanizing. The dude digs large women...I think it's wonderful that they found each other and can even find ways to spice up their relationship. I just found it funny cause the practice is so...unconventional? LOL. I didn't think it's funny that she's overweight. While I don't consider her to be physically attractive, I'm glad someone does. But again, I'm sorry if I disturbed the flow of this thread. Just think it's nice to take a break from the seriousness of it all every now and then and laugh.
Anyway, back on topic...I have problems with weight too. I may not be obese, but it does fluctuate wildly and I'll even admit to feeling self-conscious about it often. I find that I don't really mind when others are overweight, but am repulsed and grossed out when I am, even though others say I don't look fat. To me it has more to do with not being able to wear nice clothes and always feeling the need to hide under large sweaters and stuff. |
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| PappyCat |
Bianca, I definitely agree with you in the terms of theatre...However, we had gotten off theatre a long time ago.
I'm talking life. I don't see how you can get any of what you said I'm putting out from what I said... All I've been saying is that different people have different preferences. Quique, I wasn't offended. That is clearly a fetish thing and I don't jive on that much. I wouldn't want a person to be attracted to one aspect of me. Personally, if your partner would leave you if you gained 50lbs or if you lost 50lbs, than that's not a good relationship. |
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| Bianca. |
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| Salome |
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 |
It may be reading that way to you, Bianca, and to MaryMag. But ... it's not reading that way to me at all. Just sayin'.
Possibly. Or it could be Salome being Salome. Considering the kinds of statements she has made in the past, taking that one seriously is by no means a stretch. |
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| Salome |
*YAWN* | ||||||
| Joshua |
You should rest. |
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| Bianca. |
With all due respect, I sincerely second that *YAWN*
This topic is tired. The arguments are going in circles. THIS TOPIC is what needs the rest. |
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| Salome |
Bianca and I hearbye deem this topic...CLOSED! | ||||||
| Salome |
pish see my last post. | ||||||
| Roger's Chica |
Sweetie, Scarlett Johannson is one of the curviest slim women I have ever seen. The term "pocket Venus" describes her perfectly. I hate it when people misuse the word curvy. I am 5'4" and 120 lbs. If I had one cup size bigger, Scarlett Johannson and I would have almost the exact same build. We are slim women but we are CURVY. In fact, Queen Latifah also has the same build/shape as us but she is a heavier version of it. And my friend Claire who is a size 00 has the same build/shape but she is a skinner version of it. Please to use someone like Natalie Portman or Keira Knightly if you are looking for an opposite to Queen Latifah or Sara Ramirez. |
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| pish123c |
I did. That's why I deleted it. No use in beating a dead horse.
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| PappyCat |
I wasn't going with the opposite of those women, I was just picking a woman who a lot of my male friends think is super hot. |
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| Trevor reincarnate |
Scarlett Johanson (butchered her last name. but i don't care.) is one of the sexiest women alive.
She is thin, but not anorexic. She is curvy, but not fat. She is sexy, but not trashy. And she's a talented actress who can act AND sing! Queen Latifah has fat man feet. That's all I can think of when I see the poster for Mad Money. Google Image it. And I second the motion set by Salome and Bianca to close this thread. |
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| Beagle On Stage |
I'll roll with that. More trouble than it's probably worth. |