[fjays]

it just seems that on every thread or so there is someone taking out a little wicked bashing.
i was just wondering why it is seem as a lower form of musical theatre?
i assume its because of the whole "teenybopper" young teenage girl following it has ... is that all?

or do you think its just because the plot is not developed thoroughly or the lyrics are uninspiring?

care to explain.

by the way, i am not saying i love wicked.. but i am still a fan none the less.

[shakalakababy]

[ConverseSneaker]

I find the characters disgustingly sterotyped or overly dramatized, the plot weak and fluffy and the pop music silly.

[Robinflamingo]

I think my biggest problem with Wicked (besides the lyrics, the plot, the character development, the annoying OBCR and the deviation from the source material) is that so many young people think that it's the BEST musical, because it's the first or only one they've seen. I'm always glad when a youngster is turned on to musical theatre, but when their development stops dead at Wicked or Legally Blonde, it's sad. There's SO much wonderful Musical Theatre out there...

[Salome]

1) a bastardization of the wonderful novel

2) underdeveloped characters

3) castrating the charaters motives

4) a disgustingly annoying and amatuerish pop score (wirh the exception of "Wonderful" and "Wizard and I"

5) an all too insltinly convienient ending (which changes the novels ending as well)

6) a lackluster and juvinielle script

7) robin summed up the fan base best

[mizzie]

What I like about Wicked is the songs...it's not a musical theatre-esque score, but you have to admit that a lot of the music is lovely. Of course, I've always liked Schwartz music.

However, one you see it on stage, it's a very disappointing thing. The script is...bad, to say the least. It relies on bad jokes and melodrama to succeed, which should just never happen. While the show is visually pleasing, the lack of an enjoyable script and decent characters is what takes my focus.

[Mistress]

I agree withb what Salome says(excpet that I like the a songs) but I actually thoroughly enjoy the show regardless...but yes the show is rather vapid in empty compared to the novel.

Not all Wicked fans are fangirls...but I guess manya re...look at the Wicked section of this forum...that's pretty much why I don't post there too much anymore....there usedc to be some good stimulating conversation with the haters...but it's all gone now...

[Matthew]

[Salome]

when I was a girl i used to imitate Drood,Les Miz,My Fair Lady and Sweeney Todd in my beroom...seems the show quality of teen fans has gone down.

[wicked_boy]

Salome, we all know you're W1KD's NOOMBA WUN F4N 4LYF!

I like Wicked. I'm obsessed with it. I'm also obsessed with a load of other musicals. I like other people's works; Sondheim (I love Gypsy), Stiles and Andrews (Peter Pan, Mary P Additional music) the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang dudes, R&H's stuff (currently Show Boat), ALW (StEX).

[Set_Buildin_Dad]

I happen to like Wicked for what it is, a fun entertaining afternoon at the theatre. I would never consider it the greatest show of all time and I get driven a little crazy by the over-the-top fangirls that seem to go with the show. I do know several people (of all ages) who got an appreciation for the experience of live musical theatre after their exposure through Wicked and now are fans of many other shows as well.

I very much appreciated the performances of the lead actresses I saw in Wicked (Eden Espinosa & Megan Hilty) and am now following their careers. I think they are great talents and I look forward to their future projects. I think they are both great talents with wonderful singing voices.

As someone who is into set design I also have to say that I loved the set design in Wicked. I think it is one of the things that has made the show so popular. Thw whole motif of the time dragon was an inspiration as far as I'm concerned. The over the top sets really bring the show to life.

[Salome]

[quote="wicked_boy"]Salome, we all know you're W1KD's NOOMBA WUN Bang dudes, R&H's stuff (currently Show Boat), quote]uhmmm... you relaize Rodgers had northing to do with Show Boat right?

[wicked_boy]

^ I love the Wicked sets.

The whole motive of "clock work" and "cranks". It really makes you think about the World of Oz. Like, is all the magic in Oz real? Is it all just a load of cranks and pulley's that create and illusion? Why does the Emerald City have a simple wire structre, is it really not that magnificent? Is it just over blown, like many of the world's big city's?

(I've read the Grimmerie, can you tell?)

[wicked_boy]

[quote="Salome"]

[Salome]

Hammerstien did the book and lyrics jerry kern did the music.

[wicked_boy]

Oh!

I still like the musical!

(And scores that are actually composed by R&H.)

Ps, Dawn, take a look on the "Gregory Maguire Confirms Wicked Movie" thread.

A little picture has made a return.

[Salome]

Show Boat is one of the all time greats.

[wicked_boy]

[Salome]

i saw it . yes.

[wicked_boy]

I presume you don't like the return of Dawnphba?

[PappyCat]

I think there is a big big difference between disliking wicked, and purposefully seeking out ways to make fun of it (unimaginative ways) or it's fans. Most of the arguements in here are perfectly legit, but the majority of Wicked bashing ends up being hurtful mocking.

I enjoy wicked. It's not my favorite show, but I did indeed enjoy it.

I also think people hate it because it is liked by non musical theatre people, and so it's bringing non MT people into our subculture. People get all pissy because Wicked fans come in and are all "I love musical theatre!" and it makes them feel like they have to get on their high horse and diss on something that is actually HELPING our cause.

We WANT more people to be interested in MT. Seriously. It will die unless there is lots of interest.

I'm going to quote some Five Iron Frenzy:

"You found them first,
it made you stand apart, you know?
But then everyone jumped on the same bandwagon,
making you an average Joe,
A lemming for the mediocre"

[Quique]

[Kragey]

I don't hate Wicked. I just think it's mediocre and overrated.

[pish123c]

This topic has been done to death many many times. *Yawn*

[Salome]

we want people to be interested in good musical pappy, not junk.

[jarrod001]

[Salome]

uhm have you read the book? Elphaba is dead, fiyero dies midway through..elphaba has a boy with her that may or my not be her son who is left crouching in the corner. none of that is in the musical.

[ConverseSneaker]

[jesuiscommejesuis]

[PappyCat]

[What Is This Feeling?]

Rent and Spring Awakeinng r not bad shows. Just overhyped. I've grown on to Spring Awakeinng more. I enjoy the music and book very much. There were some decent performances in it as well. I dont think it should've won the Tony though. Wicked , although I used t olove it hardly does anything for me anymore, besides a few songs.

[Salome]

rent isnt bad at all Spring Awakening is crap.

[Kiwi]

I like the music of Wicked, and I'm looking forward to seeing it either on choir tour this year or when it comes to Utah in '09. I'm annoyed by its following mostly, but I'm the same way with some other musicals. It's only the people who are obsessed with the really popular musicals like POTO or Wicked and because they know those shows they think they're true theatre lovers. So call me an elitist, it annoys me.

[Catherine]

[Set_Buildin_Dad]

[jesuiscommejesuis]

[Joshua]

I don't hate the show, but I don't love it. I used to hate it because of the rush of uber-annoying fangirls, but I really don't care anymore. I still want to see it live, though just because of the experience of seeing it live. Although I definitely wouldn't choose to see it over something like, say, Sunday in the Park with George. It just annoys me to no end when people talk about how amazing Wicked is and how it's the best show and such and then when you say something like "If you think that's good, you should check out [insert good show title here]." And they're all like "No that play sucks. Wicked is better. Wicked is the best show ever!" "Have you seen [insert previously mentioned show title]?" "Well....no...but Wicked is incredible!!!" -_-
It frustrates me.

[Robinflamingo]

sorta like

dude. "insert musical here" is the best musical ever. discuss.

[Joshua]

[fjays]

[Anno_Domini]

God, I think my first post on these boards was on a topic like this. Memories...

I saw the show two years ago in Toronto. This was before I'd listened to the soundtrack, save for "Defying Gravity". My opinion afterward is the same opinion I hold today: wonderful score; Schwartz is brilliant; visually pleasing; laaaaaaaaame book!

Yes, the book of the show, with its stereotyped and/or two-dimensional characters and lame humour, made me think that this show is quite overrated.

Now, I personally did not care for the novel. Wonderful concept, but poorly executed. That being said, however, I feel that Holzman took far too many liberties in adapting it. Granted, some of the changes the play made I rather enjoyed, but many more (especially the ending) they should have let be.

As a side note, at just about every audition I've been at, there has been at least one girl singing either "Popular" or "Defying Gravity".....*sigh*, sufficed to say, I do indeed hope that people are broadening their horizons past Wicked when it comes to musicals

[Trevor reincarnate]

[Salome]

I'm not saying Rent is perfect..far from it. but Its a decent show. some oft he lyrics are painful and it could have used soem tightening (the film imo helped tighten it) but its not junk like Wicked or S.A.

[JIJane]

I think what gives the Wicked score that edge and what make them so appealing to a young audience are the orchestrations. Well done Bill Brohn I say. Listen to the songs just being played on the piano without much backing and you will see what I mean. I don't dislike Wicked, I went to see it once, quite enjoyed it but wouldn't go to see it again. I think the book is weak in parts and the songs are not that memorable (although Popular is a clever song and I like The Wizard and I and Wonderful). But it works because it hits all the spots that teenage audiences can relate to. Being an outcast. Being popular (excuse the pun). Trying to fit in, traitors, wanting to succeed, etc etc. It covers the anxiety spectrum of today's young people and offers answers and hope. It teaches about relationships and all kinds and explains and entertains - without ever being condescening. And I think that is the secret to it's success. Of course I realise it is based on a very good book. I don't know if any of you are familiar with British pantomime but that is basically what Wicked is - one big, sophisticated pantomime. Good fun with a bit more depth to it and more spectacle than your average panto.

I think it's a great show to take kids and teens to see as an introduction to MT. However, calling it "one of the best musicals ever" is a gross exaggeration. But I can see how this can happen in some young people's minds, as they identify so much with the story and its characters that no other musical comes close in making them feel as strongly understood and entertained at the same time.

[wicked_boy]

I don't think there is a "beat musical ever".

I love all musicals and try to see a variety of them as much as I can. I have the ones that I like better and I have ones I don't like as much.

[Salome]

Yes...My Fair Lady..Even Sondheim concedes its the finest example of musical theatre to hit the stage.

[actor]

[Quique]

[Trevor reincarnate]

[Lepitot]

I never realized Mimi was Puerto Rican. I never really thought about it. Granted, I've only seen the movie.

What was wrong with the full cast scenes and choreography in Wicked? I thought they were well done.

And, I wouldn't say that Wicked has awful lyrics in general. It has a few bad lyrics, but overall, the shows lyrics really aren't horrible.

I still love Wicked, and I can't wait to see it again. It may not be the best show out there, but it's one of the most entertaining shows for me. And, that's what I'm going to see the show for...entertainment.

[Quique]

[Quique]

[Trevor reincarnate]

Hence the "for what it was".

It didn't translate well to film. It was still too over the top.

But I was entertained. I guess. lol

[Lepitot]

What drives me nuts about the RENT film is that the actors are too animated. They are stage actors, not film actors, and it shows. They weren't natural enough to be on film.

I personally loved how he filmed No Day But Today. But, yes, Take Me or Leave me is indeed the best scene in the film.

I haven't seen the stage show so I have no idea how it compares, but I loved Take me or Leave Me. I also adored Tango Maureen.

I loved Life Support, Will I?, La Vie Boheme, Goodbye Love and Finale B. I thought Finale Be worked well on film.

I enjoyed the rest of the film, but I realize it's not flawless. I don't think it's a bad film at all, and I don't think it butchered the show...the essense is still there. His family enjoyed the film. The stage show may be better, but the film didn't destroy it. A person can watch it and still understand the message, still love the music, like the characters and such. All in all, RENT is one of my favorite movies.

[Salome]

Jesse Martin was not "too animated" and the guy knows exactly how to act in front of a camera..years on Law and Order will do that.

[Matthew]

[musikal_geek]

It's a Random Facts Thread! Not random enough or something?

[LaGataNegra]

title of thread: 'why all the Wicked hating?'
has little to do with Rent, or randomnessocity.

[Kragey]

[qpidsangel]

[jarrod001]