lostquiche
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Why all the hate?Here's my question: Why do so many people openly hate and bash Wicked? It's one of the only musicals as far as I've observed that if someone says something insulting to it, people will not immediatly defend it. Sure, there are quite a few fans on here, but it seems like there are just as many haters. Other musicals...say older ones, which I personally can't stand, are respected and revered becuase they are "classics". What do you, the non-fans think that they and other shows have that Wicked does not? I want to hear why you don't like it and obviously think it deserves to be squashed like a cockroach. Opinions?
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Baker
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*runs for cover*
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actor
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| Baker wrote: | | *runs for cover* |
lol
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Glinda Upland
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I don't know! I love Wicked! I haven't actually ran into anyone who s it. If you have, just ignore tham. Their opinion doesn't effect the shows quality or it's success.
Thats my advice for you. 
~*~*~*Helena~*~*~*~
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Baker
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| Glinda Upland wrote: | | I haven't actually ran into anyone who s it. |
And you've been here since August?
I'm either thoroughly impressed or extremely worried about your ability to ignore what you don't want to see. Not sure which yet.
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lostquiche
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| Baker wrote: | | *runs for cover* |
sorry. I didn't mean to scare you. 
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Baker
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| lostquiche wrote: | | Baker wrote: | | *runs for cover* |
sorry. I didn't mean to scare you. |
I wasn't scared of you. I was scared of all the Wicked haters who will be here soon to chew on Shizkid flesh.
Not that your a Shizkid. Just sayin'. 
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Dvarg
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Re: Why all the hate? | lostquiche wrote: | | Here's my question: Why do so many people openly hate and bash Wicked? |
I don't know anything about the show, except that people find that it is shallow and spectacular.
Musical fans hate musicals that are shallow and spectacular for two reasons: it makes people with little knowledge about musicals believe we all are shallow and superficial ourselves, and it makes us fear that if shallow and spectacular shows are successful then creators of musicals will create more shallow and spectacular shows.
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happyguava
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I always thought it was a bit of tall poppy syndrome - like people decided to hate it because it was getting so much attention, fans, etc.
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actor
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Re: Why all the hate? | Dvarg wrote: | | lostquiche wrote: | | Here's my question: Why do so many people openly hate and bash Wicked? |
I don't know anything about the show, except that people find that it is shallow and spectacular.
Musical fans hate musicals that are shallow and spectacular for two reasons: it makes people with little knowledge about musicals believe we all are shallow and superficial ourselves, and it makes us fear that if shallow and spectacular shows are successful then creators of musicals will create more shallow and spectacular shows. |
Isn't the word spectacular positive not negative?
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jazzygirlsings
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Re: Why all the hate? | actor wrote: | | Dvarg wrote: | | lostquiche wrote: | | Here's my question: Why do so many people openly hate and bash Wicked? |
I don't know anything about the show, except that people find that it is shallow and spectacular.
Musical fans hate musicals that are shallow and spectacular for two reasons: it makes people with little knowledge about musicals believe we all are shallow and superficial ourselves, and it makes us fear that if shallow and spectacular shows are successful then creators of musicals will create more shallow and spectacular shows. |
Isn't the word spectacular positive not negative? |
The root word of "spectacular" is spectacle...which, if you are talking about musicals that stand alone on their merits (book and score alone) is NOT a good thing.
People who know little or nothing about musicals assume that this is what musical theatre is about, which is not true. "Wicked" is merely surface material...a lot of flashy shiny things...smoke and mirrors, really...with little substance. People just have to identify it as what it is. You can like it, but those people who think it's the be-all-end all of musical theatre need their heads examined.
A musical that could be done with actors wearing street clothes and no sets and can STILL be emotionally moving is a musical that has artistic merit.
Wicked is not one of those shows...
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Dvarg
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Re: Why all the hate? | actor wrote: | | Isn't the word spectacular positive not negative? |
I'd say it's neutral. Combined with good material for a dramaturgical reason it can be great. Combined with shallow material and/or for the sole purpose of dazzling the audience to make them overlook bad material, spectacle is awful.
I haven't seen or heard Wicked, so I don't have an opinion on it, but I believe people find it's spectacle to be of the latter kind.
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Emmanya
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I don't hate Wicked but it is most definetly not the GrATeSt MUSiKAL EvA1!!1 - It has a lot of flaws and there are so many things that could be tweaked to make it a better show.
And yeah...it is a bit flashy with little substance.
That being said I can't wait to see it on the 4th of January. 
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katethegreat
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I'd be pretty sure that most of the people who bash Wicked know little more than the OBCR, or if they HAVE seen it, didn't go in with open minds.
Wicked definately suffers from its own popularity as I believe that people deeply into whatever art it may be, look on the more popular off-shoots as a lesser art. It happens across the board, popular music,film, theatre, art, literature etc are all judged through the eyes of 'professionals' or 'conessours' (sp?) as inferior. Its an elitist thing, but also quite a protective and jealous thing. These people have often invested alot of time and emotion into the 'art' in question and don't like it when people jump on the bandwaggon and invade their world just because of one peice which may not be the most ground-breaking peice that was ever made. People don't like to think that something that is enjoyed by the LCD (lowest common denominator) can be classed as a 'high' art.
I'm guilty of it myself (still am). I have spent most of my life studying theatre in one form or another and while I was doing my degree I found myself getting VERY snobby about theatre (especially the acting) and later on with live music. It gets to the point where if its not edgy or experimental, it's just mindless crap. When people get like this they blinker themselves to anything that doesn't meet their criteria and its a shame, because they miss out on a lot of stuff that they'd probably enjoy. A teacher of mine (a very good bass guitarist) has a saying: "If you like it, its good". I realised that just a while before I went to that college. I don't care if a song isn't 'cool' because its by somebody like McFly - if I like it, I like it!
I like Wicked, and I really don't think its shallow - if you pay attention. But if that makes me shallow, so be it! Its strange, and I think its just a human trait, but this is the same mentality that people have when they don't think a person is 'cool' enough at school. Ah well.
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Little_Nell
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I don't understand why it has to be such an issue with people... either you like it or you don't. Why bother to go into so much detail in picking it apart just to annoy someone else?
I don't like eating fish but I don't condem the people who do like it, it's just a personal preference after all. What right do I have to dictate what other people should like? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and as long as it's not hurting anyone, where's the f*cking problem?
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katethegreat
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But you're a cat!
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arctic_orange
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Just to put my two cents in....The only problem I have with Wicked is the way it seems to have sanitized and made "radio friendly" its source material. The book Wicked by Gregory Maguire is one of my favorite books, and the musical was disappointing to me in the same way that the Harry Potter movies are. They just aren't the same. I don't really understand people who passionately hate the musical--there are more important things to be passionate about, in my opinion!
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katethegreat
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Fair dos - I haven't read the book yet, and hadn't heard of it before the musical. But I have bought it now, and am starting it! I'm one of those people who usually prefers the book, so I might have had a different opinion on Wicked if I had. But to be fair, the music makes a musical for me - and I'm sure I'd love the music either way!
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Matthew
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The musical is a horrible bastardization of the book.
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Little_Nell
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| arctic_orange wrote: | | Just to put my two cents in....The only problem I have with Wicked is the way it seems to have sanitized and made "radio friendly" its source material. The book Wicked by Gregory Maguire is one of my favorite books, and the musical was disappointing to me in the same way that the Harry Potter movies are. They just aren't the same. I don't really understand people who passionately hate the musical--there are more important things to be passionate about, in my opinion! |
Agreed - now those are constructive comments! Thank you! 
Kate -  I know, ain't it weird?!
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Luc
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Re: Why all the hate? | jazzygirlsings wrote: | | A musical that could be done with actors wearing street clothes and no sets and can STILL be emotionally moving is a musical that has artistic merit. |
Rent, Rent, Rent, Re-ent, Rent! We're not gonna pay rent!
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jimbothecrab
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I've never heard of anyone say they didn't like Wicked and if they do say it I'll give them the ol' one two. They'll never forget to love Wicked.
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katethegreat
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| Little_Nell wrote: | | arctic_orange wrote: | | Just to put my two cents in....The only problem I have with Wicked is the way it seems to have sanitized and made "radio friendly" its source material. The book Wicked by Gregory Maguire is one of my favorite books, and the musical was disappointing to me in the same way that the Harry Potter movies are. They just aren't the same. I don't really understand people who passionately hate the musical--there are more important things to be passionate about, in my opinion! |
Agreed - now those are constructive comments! Thank you!
Kate - I know, ain't it weird?! |
Well, my cat does like mushrooms....
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Matthew
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| jimbothecrab wrote: | | I've never heard of anyone say they didn't like Wicked and if they do say it I'll give them the ol' one two. They'll never forget to love Wicked. |
Wow.
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katethegreat
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | jimbothecrab wrote: | | I've never heard of anyone say they didn't like Wicked and if they do say it I'll give them the ol' one two. They'll never forget to love Wicked. |
Wow. |
Hide. Now.
(And I LIKE Wicked!)
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Matthew
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| katethegreat wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | jimbothecrab wrote: | | I've never heard of anyone say they didn't like Wicked and if they do say it I'll give them the ol' one two. They'll never forget to love Wicked. |
Wow. |
Hide. Now.
(And I LIKE Wicked!) |
Are you telling me to hide?
Because I won't.
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katethegreat
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | katethegreat wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | jimbothecrab wrote: | | I've never heard of anyone say they didn't like Wicked and if they do say it I'll give them the ol' one two. They'll never forget to love Wicked. |
Wow. |
Hide. Now.
(And I LIKE Wicked!) |
Are you telling me to hide?
Because I won't. |
He sounds serious...you up to it?
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Matthew
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why should i be afraid?
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katethegreat
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I asked if you were up for it - not if you were afraid
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Matthew
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I'm so up for it.
Defending Wicked must be hard.
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katethegreat
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Hmmm....Maybe I'll have to see for myself if it is! Thats fightin' talk that is! 
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Matthew
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Yeah..
But I don't fight.
I wouldn't want to waste my energy on Wicked.
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katethegreat
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Aw dammit - was in the mood for a bit of a catfight
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Luc
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krisavalon
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Haha Nice to see how the good debates never die.
I love the musical, personally. I'll confess that when I saw Wicked on stage, I was actually in tears toward the end. But then again, I was in tears at the end of Charlotte's Web also, so maybe that's just me.....
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katethegreat
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| musikal_geek wrote: | |
Sorry, I'm in one of those moods!
Comes from losing you voice on christmas day 
O and I cried at an episode of the simpsons once - me crying at something rarely means anything!
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Glinda Upland
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Lol! You guys are cool!
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katethegreat
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I like to think of myself as slightly off-kilter
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Glinda Upland
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Lol!
I am a crazy one! 
~Helena
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Eponine93
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I think a lot of people don't realize that Wicked the Book and Wicked the Musical are two different pieces of art. When you adapt a musical from a book, you lose a lot. Such was the case with Wicked. They're completely different. If we stopped thinking of them similarly, I think people would enjoy both the book and the musical more.
I LOVE the show, but the hype really does make me sad. I think that it should have some passing references to other shows, to get all its teenage girl fans into other musicals. Hearing a girl at my school going like: "I hate all musicals except for Wicked" makes me want to lay down and die. The hype is TERRIBLE!
I think the show would be good without the bangs and flashs. Maybe not AS good, but the plotline is great and I like the music. Wicked really is a mega-musical with good music and a multitude of special effects. We've seen them in the past- Les Miserables, Miss Saigon, The Phantom of the Opera.
Although, if people were going to blast Wicked for having special effects, why not blast other shows abound with special effects?
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Glinda Upland
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| Eponine93 wrote: |
I think the show would be good without the bangs and flashs. Maybe not AS good, but the plotline is great and I like the music. Wicked really is a mega-musical with good music and a multitude of special effects. We've seen them in the past- Les Miserables, Miss Saigon, The Phantom of the Opera.
Although, if people were going to blast Wicked for having special effects, why not blast other shows abound with special effects? |
Good point! I can't think of a show right off of the top of my heade that has tons of special effects, but Wicked isn't the only one, thats for sure. Let's take pahntom for example. I love Phantom. I mean, Phantom is a smash hit, and everyone loves it (even myself  ) It has tons of special effects, like the chandelier, phantoms fireballs, a lake w/ a gondola, fog and at the end there is the *I CAN'T SPOIL THE ENDING BUT THERE IS ONE THERE TOO!*. That justs makes people love the show more. I agree with you 100%!
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Matthew
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| Glinda Upland wrote: | | Although, if people were going to blast Wicked for having special effects, why not blast other shows abound with special effects? |
It's not so much that as that the show relies on special effects.
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happyguava
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| katethegreat wrote: | | O and I cried at an episode of the simpsons once - me crying at something rarely means anything! |
Which one?!
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katethegreat
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | Glinda Upland wrote: | | Although, if people were going to blast Wicked for having special effects, why not blast other shows abound with special effects? |
It's not so much that as that the show relies on special effects. |
Thats probably how you saw it from your point of view - the special effects barely register when I think of what I enjoyed about Wicked. Its a long time since I've looked out for special effects - music, story and acting are far more important to me. I found Cats very dull because it relied on dancing for any substance - but that's only MY opinion, doesn't mean its true.
| happyguava wrote: | | katethegreat wrote: | | O and I cried at an episode of the simpsons once - me crying at something rarely means anything! |
Which one?! |
The one where they explain where all the pictures of Maggie have gone - can't remember what the sign says, but Homer covered it with pictures of Maggie so it just said "Do it for her" 
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Salome
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Re: Why all the hate? | lostquiche wrote: | | Here's my question: Why do so many people openly hate and bash Wicked? It's one of the only musicals as far as I've observed that if someone says something insulting to it, people will not immediatly defend it. Sure, there are quite a few fans on here, but it seems like there are just as many haters. Other musicals...say older ones, which I personally can't stand, are respected and revered becuase they are "classics". What do you, the non-fans think that they and other shows have that Wicked does not? I want to hear why you don't like it and obviously think it deserves to be squashed like a cockroach. Opinions? |
hmm classic shows like my fair lady,companyCarousel,South pacific,,camelot,show boat, and modern ones such as parade, Into the Woods,Follies,Grand Hotel etc .
all have
Strong Books
well developed plots
depth in characters
brilliant lyrics
good music.
all which Wicked lacks.
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katethegreat
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| Quote: | hmm classic shows like my fair lady,companyCarousel,South pacific,,camelot,show boat, and modern ones such as parade, Into the Woods,Follies,Grand Hotel etc .
all have
Strong Books
well developed plots
depth in characters
brilliant lyrics
good music.
all which Wicked lacks. |
IN YOUR OPINION!
Sorry, I don't mean to shout but I feel like a broken record. You may not think it has all these things but I can barely find any of them in musicals such as Into the Woods and Follies. Doesn't mean they don't have them, thats just my opinion! So Wicked has alot of people who hate it on these boards - so what. I like it and there's quite a few more people out there who like it. My friend was on a national tour of ITW here - and it bombed. Wicked didn't.
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Emmanya
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What would be most constuctive if evidence was used to support everyones argument. Yes, "In my opinion" is an important thing to say but why is it your opinon? Why do you think the music so amazing? Why do you think there is no character development? etc
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Salome
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| katethegreat wrote: | | Quote: | hmm classic shows like my fair lady,companyCarousel,South pacific,,camelot,show boat, and modern ones such as parade, Into the Woods,Follies,Grand Hotel etc .
all have
Strong Books
well developed plots
depth in characters
brilliant lyrics
good music.
all which Wicked lacks. |
IN YOUR OPINION!
Sorry, I don't mean to shout but I feel like a broken record. You may not think it has all these things but I can barely find any of them in musicals such as Into the Woods and Follies. Doesn't mean they don't have them, thats just my opinion! So Wicked has alot of people who hate it on these boards - so what. I like it and there's quite a few more people out there who like it. My friend was on a national tour of ITW here - and it bombed. Wicked didn't. |
sorry youre wrong..not to be mean..but artistically. wicked has little merit compared ot the shows i mentioned.
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Eponine93
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| Quote: | | What would be most constuctive if evidence was used to support everyones argument. Yes, "In my opinion" is an important thing to say but why is it your opinon? Why do you think the music so amazing? Why do you think there is no character development? etc |
Great point. But can one ever say WHY they like something?
It's difficult but I'm going to take a try. Wicked appeals to people emotionally because it completely recrafts a familar story, one that everyone knows. Even though Dorothy isn't really IN Wicked, there are little references and little things that tie together. I love how all of Dorothy's helpers- the Scarecrow, the Tinman, and the Cowardly Lion- all have something to do with Wicked. I enjoy how the plot ties the story of Elphaba at school together with Dorothy kicking green ass.
One thing I really like about the music of Wicked is that it applies to the life of a teenage girl. Most girls tend to feel like an Elphaba at least once when they're a teenager. Suddenly, they feel hatred for no reason against the other cliques and wonder "What Is This Feeling?" They have the blond beauty queens lecturing them about being good and "popular". At the same time, they long for the ditzy yet irrestitably cute lovable loser "Dancing Through Life" and feel like they are "Not that Girl." Most teenage girls also feel a strong need to rebel, to "Defy Gravity." They also have a need for friendship "For Good" and, once they finally secure a boyfriend, hold on to him "As Long As Your Mine."
What I'm trying to say is most teenage girls like me enjoy Wicked because it applies to thier life. The music is also something upbeat they can sing along to. Wicked may not be deep, but its the story of a teenagers' life and that is why people like it. The fact the teenager is one of the most famous villians of all time doesn't hurt it.
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Matthew
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| Salome wrote: | | katethegreat wrote: | | Quote: | hmm classic shows like my fair lady,companyCarousel,South pacific,,camelot,show boat, and modern ones such as parade, Into the Woods,Follies,Grand Hotel etc .
all have
Strong Books
well developed plots
depth in characters
brilliant lyrics
good music.
all which Wicked lacks. |
IN YOUR OPINION!
Sorry, I don't mean to shout but I feel like a broken record. You may not think it has all these things but I can barely find any of them in musicals such as Into the Woods and Follies. Doesn't mean they don't have them, thats just my opinion! So Wicked has alot of people who hate it on these boards - so what. I like it and there's quite a few more people out there who like it. My friend was on a national tour of ITW here - and it bombed. Wicked didn't. |
sorry youre wrong..not to be mean..but artistically. wicked has little merit compared ot the shows i mentioned. |
How true, yes, how true...said the sour Kangaroo.
We discussed this yesterday.
If you take away the sets, costumes, FX, and make-up...
What do you get[snaps to the person who cna name the musical that line is from]
A mediocre score...Horrible dialogue...flat characters...and a horrible bastardization of a phenominal novel.
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Eponine93
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| Quote: | | A mediocre score...Horrible dialogue...flat characters...and a horrible bastardization of a phenominal novel |
Why do you think so?
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Matthew
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| Eponine93 wrote: | | Quote: | | A mediocre score...Horrible dialogue...flat characters...and a horrible bastardization of a phenominal novel |
Why do you think so? |
I don't think so.
They are plain facts.
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Eponine93
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| Quote: | I don't think so.
They are plain facts. |
Well what makes the show so mediocre that its terribleness is a fact? I think the point of this thread is idenifying why it is a fact that Wicked is terrible.
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Matthew
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| Eponine93 wrote: | | Well what makes the show so mediocre that its terribleness is a fact? I think the point of this thread is idenifying why it is a fact that Wicked is terrible. |
That didn't make any sense...
Read what I said again...I pointed out why Wicked was terrible.
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Eponine93
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I'm not going to argue back. Really, this is an open question. How many people who don't like Wicked have actually seen the show?
Also, I was trying to ask you WHAT was mediocre about the music, bad about the dialogue, ect.
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Matthew
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Are you saying that I didn't?
I've seen several casts...
Doesn't change the fact that it has...
a mediocre score...crappy dialogue...flat characters...yadda yadda yadda...
It was a pain to listen to and a pain to watch.
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Glinda Upland
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I don't think she is trying to say that you have never seen the show. I think she is asking how many people complain about how dreadful the show is without seeing it for themselves. I actually would like to know that myself. How many people have actually seen the show before bashing it?
~Helena
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Matthew
|
| Glinda Upland wrote: | I don't think she is trying to say that you have never seen the show. I think she is asking how many people complain about how dreadful the show is without seeing it for themselves. I actually would like to know that myself. How many people have actually seen the show before bashing it?
~Helena |
That's far beyond the point.
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Glinda Upland
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No it isn’t. She has a valid point.
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Matthew
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| Glinda Upland wrote: | | No it isn’t. She has a valid point. |
No...I meant we were already over that.
Now we are talking about the aspects of the show.
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Glinda Upland
|
Oh, sorry! 
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Matthew
|
It's fine.
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Emmanya
|
I'll try to get some levity back to the boards...
I think the shows relatability to teenagers is the crux of its success but all the money invested in the scenery etc doesn't help.
I understand this is a moot point but if the musical didn't have the book lurking in the back of peoples minds it would be a lot easier to accept it.
However I think some of the songs are appalling (Something Bad...do I have to justify this point?) and some are boring because its power ballad after power ballad after power ballad. I also find the 'journey' Glinda and Fiyero go on to be contrived because they don't flesh the characters out enough. They try to keep Glinda's character TOO fluffy and I find it detremental and ridiculous when compared with the dark and deep themes they try to cram in at the end.
I'll have a lot more to say when I see it in London on the 4th which I am quite excited about.
And I know I've said it before but if you hate Wicked and you go around proclaiming it complete and utter shit and behaving arrogantly to people who like it - you are just as bad as the teeny boppers who will cut out your eyes if you say anything against the new Mother Theresa - Idina Menzel.
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Matthew
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| Emmanya wrote: | | I'll try to get some levity back to the boards... |
Thank you...I feel like Lazarus?
| Emmanya wrote: |
I understand this is a moot point but if the musical didn't have the book lurking in the back of peoples minds it would be a lot easier to accept it. |
most people haven't read the book. if they did...they yould realize how much better it is.
| Emmanya wrote: | | I'll have a lot more to say when I see it in London on the 4th which I am quite excited about. |
Criticizing those who criticize without seeing it?
| Emmanya wrote: | | new Mother Theresa - Idina Menzel. |
Millenium Approaches.
Appocalypse.
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Emmanya
|
I have seen it! I thought it was ok but like I've said...I could see there were huge problems that seemed to be the result of laziness. Even some of the staging baffles me in its contrivedness. (What is this feeling? Elphaba walks to back of stage for no reason just to turn and walk back to where she was so it creates contrast to Glinda and her croneys walking backwards!)
I really thought this thread could be quite interesting but people seem to be completely opposed to having there opinions questioned.
Why have you seen the show so many times? "Several casts" - if you dislike it so much? Been dragged along by family?...
Dude I'm not critizizing those who critisize it - evens slightly! I'm critizing people who are RUDE when saying there opinion - if they are Wicked haters or lovers!
E.g My personal opinion is that Idina Menzel is one of the weaker Elphabas but I don't go around posting rude things about her or her fans and I don't expect Menzelfans to post rude things about people who do not think she is the be all and end all of musical theatre.
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Matthew
|
| Emmanya wrote: | | Why have you seen the show so many times? "Several casts" - if you dislike it so much? Been dragged along by family?... |
Nope. I see shows twice...then decide. Different casts in case it was one cast i didn't like.
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Glinda Upland
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | Emmanya wrote: | | Why have you seen the show so many times? "Several casts" - if you dislike it so much? Been dragged along by family?... |
Nope. I see shows twice...then decide. Differnt casts in case it was one cast i didn't like. |
Thats a good idea to see the show a few times, because diffrent casts have diffrent effects on the show...
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Baker
|
| lostquiche wrote: | | Baker wrote: | | *runs for cover* |
sorry. I didn't mean to scare you. |
Now do you see why I ran for cover?
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Jekkienumber24601
|
It's because there's so many fans the show's gotten annoying. Sure Rent has just as many fans, but the reason people don't bash Rent, Les Miserables, or Phantom of the Opera fans as much, is because those shows are excellent shows. Now everyone was telling me how epic and amazing Wicked is. I see it...sure the sets are expensive and cool, nice costumes, good choreography, but the show is soo cheesy on purpose that I can't believe how hard the writers are laughing at people saying it's as powerful and moving as Les Miserables.
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Baker
|
Phantom of the Opera is starting to lose what it had because of its fans as well. It's happened to me - all the annoying phangirls have driven me to the point where I can't even stand the show.
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Salome
|
Phantom is not an excellent show its pretty mediocre and rather kitchy.
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katethegreat
|
| Salome wrote: | | katethegreat wrote: | | Quote: | hmm classic shows like my fair lady,companyCarousel,South pacific,,camelot,show boat, and modern ones such as parade, Into the Woods,Follies,Grand Hotel etc .
all have
Strong Books
well developed plots
depth in characters
brilliant lyrics
good music.
all which Wicked lacks. |
IN YOUR OPINION!
Sorry, I don't mean to shout but I feel like a broken record. You may not think it has all these things but I can barely find any of them in musicals such as Into the Woods and Follies. Doesn't mean they don't have them, thats just my opinion! So Wicked has alot of people who hate it on these boards - so what. I like it and there's quite a few more people out there who like it. My friend was on a national tour of ITW here - and it bombed. Wicked didn't. |
sorry youre wrong..not to be mean..but artistically. wicked has little merit compared ot the shows i mentioned. |
Really depends on what we all like then.
Maybe Wicked isn't artistically perfect, but then maybe thats a good thing? So often I prefer things that are all you describe - but I just like Wicked.
I actually think the three main females are very strong characters and some of the themes the musical brings up (lets forget the book for this conversation) are relevant with alot of things happening in the world today. Everybody will read different things, but I saw political issues that we deal with today raised. To me the characters in power spoke 'Bush speak'. Its not a new thing that people will have many different interpretations of one peice of theatre.
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katethegreat
|
| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | Eponine93 wrote: | | Quote: | | A mediocre score...Horrible dialogue...flat characters...and a horrible bastardization of a phenominal novel |
Why do you think so? |
I don't think so.
They are plain facts. |
There's something very childish and bitchy about many of your posts. If your aim is to rile people then its working. So can we please have some sensible answers now. All you've managed so far are basically repeats of what I've quoted above.
Lets leave the novel out of it for now. Many people who have seen the musical have not read the novel. This isn't a bad thing - the book was only published in the UK this year, so I think most of us can be forgiven for not having heard of it until recently. I'm glad you like it, I'm enjoying it so far.
Yes some of the characters may not be up to scratch - I think the Fiyero is one of the most poorly written characters I've ever come across. The good characters in the film are all women. Maybe you can't identify with these characters - fair enough.
I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about this in 5 years. I think you're very young. I'm not using age as any argument here, but the one thing I've learnt is that you can change more in 5 years than you'd ever imagine. I doubt you'll like Wicked in 5 years if you don't like it now, but I think your criticisms may be more objective than simply spouting 'its bad' over and over again.
|
Matthew
|
| katethegreat wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | Eponine93 wrote: | | Quote: | | A mediocre score...Horrible dialogue...flat characters...and a horrible bastardization of a phenominal novel |
Why do you think so? |
I don't think so.
They are plain facts. |
There's something very childish and bitchy about many of your posts. If your aim is to rile people then its working. So can we please have some sensible answers now. All you've managed so far are basically repeats of what I've quoted above.
Lets leave the novel out of it for now. Many people who have seen the musical have not read the novel. This isn't a bad thing - the book was only published in the UK this year, so I think most of us can be forgiven for not having heard of it until recently. I'm glad you like it, I'm enjoying it so far.
Yes some of the characters may not be up to scratch - I think the Fiyero is one of the most poorly written characters I've ever come across. The good characters in the film are all women. Maybe you can't identify with these characters - fair enough.
I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about this in 5 years. I think you're very young. I'm not using age as any argument here, but the one thing I've learnt is that you can change more in 5 years than you'd ever imagine. I doubt you'll like Wicked in 5 years if you don't like it now, but I think your criticisms may be more objective than simply spouting 'its bad' over and over again. |
I've been doing musicals for the past 11 years of my 15 year old life.
I've seen some great theatre and I've seen some really horrible theatre.
I've met people who can't stand my bluntness and people who absolutely adore it.
Wicked is a bad musical. The music is very mediocre and is a joke. Stephen Schwartz must've been half asleep writing it compared to his some of his other works.
Winnie Holzman's dialogue is quite basic and does not allow any of the characters to have layers. Flat characters are only sometimes called for. Not in Wicked.
I'm not being bitchy and childish. This is the way I am.
Very blunt, sarcastic, and dry.
Get used to it.
I can be as cuddly as a teddy bear and fun as an Etch A Sketch if you don't call me "bitchy and childish."
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my_work_my_name
|
I spent a lot of time being intrigued by Wicked, from first hearing the cast album to actually seeing it. It struck a chord with me on account of its grim themes, what felt to me like a sound-world I had never encountered before in a musical, and its marked difference from the novel.
I find the score to be very compelling (to the point of being insanely addictive) and interesting on various levels. 'Defying Gravity' is among my most highly regarded end of Act I numbers. 'For Good' is, I think, an amazing duet. The relationship between the two women as presented in the musical, if anything, awards it nuances that the novel lacked (I do think the novel is superb). Yes, it depends on spectacle. It doesn't bother me in the slightest - Sondheim isn't going to cease to exist as because of it.
Believe it or not, I was as moved by it as I was by the '06 revival of 'Sunday in the Park with George', which really got to me. It's definately not the way I would have adapted the novel for the stage - which is perhaps no bad thing...
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Glinda Upland
|
ATTENTION ATTENTION:
THE MDN DEBATE OF 2006 HAS JUST BEGAN!
(((Sorry, but it is true, Lol!)))
I am so not going to take either side on this. I have just decided to remain as neutral as my mind will allow. I apologize in advance
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Luc
|
| Glinda Upland wrote: | ATTENTION ATTENTION:
THE MDN DEBATE OF 2006 HAS JUST BEGAN!
(((Sorry, but it is true, Lol!)))
I am so not going to take either side on this. I have just decided to remain as neutral as my mind will allow. I apologize in advance |
That's... uhh.... pretty cool, there. Thank you for that.
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nasarose
|
| katethegreat wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | Eponine93 wrote: | | Quote: | | A mediocre score...Horrible dialogue...flat characters...and a horrible bastardization of a phenominal novel |
Why do you think so? |
I don't think so.
They are plain facts. |
There's something very childish and bitchy about many of your posts. If your aim is to rile people then its working. So can we please have some sensible answers now. All you've managed so far are basically repeats of what I've quoted above.
Lets leave the novel out of it for now. Many people who have seen the musical have not read the novel. This isn't a bad thing - the book was only published in the UK this year, so I think most of us can be forgiven for not having heard of it until recently. I'm glad you like it, I'm enjoying it so far.
Yes some of the characters may not be up to scratch - I think the Fiyero is one of the most poorly written characters I've ever come across. The good characters in the film are all women. Maybe you can't identify with these characters - fair enough.
I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about this in 5 years. I think you're very young. I'm not using age as any argument here, but the one thing I've learnt is that you can change more in 5 years than you'd ever imagine. I doubt you'll like Wicked in 5 years if you don't like it now, but I think your criticisms may be more objective than simply spouting 'its bad' over and over again. |
i enjoy that you call some of us childish with your ripe old age of 24....shore...some of us may not have the experience of, say, someone that has graduated, but none-the-less, we have taste....some of us even have class......WICKED is wickedly bad crap..................it is a nightmare tech-wise backstage, but beautiful from the audience, sure...but that is ALL it has going for it....maybe if they had spent less time on costumes(that you can't see the detail in becuase the audience ISN'T 2 feet away from them) and tech and more time on writing and polishing they might have noticed that idina, along with most every other woman in the world, can't hit a D flat........they might also have noticed that the show is crap and would have thrown it out................i don't care if the book was only published in the UK this year.....it holds a real story........WICKED the musical has NOTHING to do with the book...........and i agree that people do change a lot in 5 years....5 years ago i didn't do theater.................but you see, 5 years ago i hated phantom of the opera......that didn't change.........taste evolves....going from hate to love of WICKED isn't evolution it is regression into the days where ANNIE was the best show in the world..................and by the way.......you say you are only reading the book now......have you even seen the show?.........don't talk until you finish the book and see the show
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nasarose
|
| Quote: | | I'd be pretty sure that most of the people who bash Wicked know little more than the OBCR, or if they HAVE seen it, didn't go in with open minds. |
i walked into that show excited...i was ready to see a great show......TOTALLY OPEN MINDED!......i walked out after hearing people talk about the musical genius and experience the lack there of more completely than any OBCR could ever provide and was therefore out...unfortunately i'd already memorized the songs and they now interfer with my daily life
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katethegreat
|
| nasarose wrote: | | katethegreat wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | Eponine93 wrote: | | Quote: | | A mediocre score...Horrible dialogue...flat characters...and a horrible bastardization of a phenominal novel |
Why do you think so? |
I don't think so.
They are plain facts. |
There's something very childish and bitchy about many of your posts. If your aim is to rile people then its working. So can we please have some sensible answers now. All you've managed so far are basically repeats of what I've quoted above.
Lets leave the novel out of it for now. Many people who have seen the musical have not read the novel. This isn't a bad thing - the book was only published in the UK this year, so I think most of us can be forgiven for not having heard of it until recently. I'm glad you like it, I'm enjoying it so far.
Yes some of the characters may not be up to scratch - I think the Fiyero is one of the most poorly written characters I've ever come across. The good characters in the film are all women. Maybe you can't identify with these characters - fair enough.
I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about this in 5 years. I think you're very young. I'm not using age as any argument here, but the one thing I've learnt is that you can change more in 5 years than you'd ever imagine. I doubt you'll like Wicked in 5 years if you don't like it now, but I think your criticisms may be more objective than simply spouting 'its bad' over and over again. |
i enjoy that you call some of us childish with your ripe old age of 24....shore...some of us may not have the experience of, say, someone that has graduated, but none-the-less, we have taste....some of us even have class......WICKED is wickedly bad crap..................it is a nightmare tech-wise backstage, but beautiful from the audience, sure...but that is ALL it has going for it....maybe if they had spent less time on costumes(that you can't see the detail in becuase the audience ISN'T 2 feet away from them) and tech and more time on writing and polishing they might have noticed that idina, along with most every other woman in the world, can't hit a D flat........they might also have noticed that the show is crap and would have thrown it out................i don't care if the book was only published in the UK this year.....it holds a real story........WICKED the musical has NOTHING to do with the book...........and i agree that people do change a lot in 5 years....5 years ago i didn't do theater.................but you see, 5 years ago i hated phantom of the opera......that didn't change.........taste evolves....going from hate to love of WICKED isn't evolution it is regression into the days where ANNIE was the best show in the world..................and by the way.......you say you are only reading the book now......have you even seen the show?.........don't talk until you finish the book and see the show |
Wow - dots
Ok, futureMUNGOJERRIE - you may just be one of those people who brings out the worst in me. I shouldn't let you get me so wound up. There's not been a need for any of this - you don't like it. We get it. I might not have been here long enough to see how other unpopular musicals are treated, but, wow.
I doubt any of you would appreciate people constantly bashing one of your favourites. I don't feel any need to attack Cats, or ITW - I hated both. You seem to have a problem with us liking this musical - like I said before, if I like something, I like it. It doesn't have to meet with any elitest criteria for me to like it.
As for your comments nasarose: Yes, I have seen the musical - I don't normally defend things and claim to like them when I have no idea what they're about.
This is a board for the MUSICAL of Wicked, so just get over that its different from the book. O, and I'll talk whenever I like.
I'm a singing teacher - I know alot about singing and make my living from it. Most women can hit the Eflat Idina (and every other Elphaba) has to hit. Many women, however, are NOT able to belt the note and acheive a decent sound. Great for you if you can - hope you're doing it properly, you can damage your voice if you don't.
I tried to explain that I wasn't using my age to say I know any more than anybody here. I know that I don't. I have been on stage in one way or another for nearly 20 years now, but not always in musical theatre. So there will be things you know more about than me, and vice versa.
This does not make any of my opinions less valid - nor yours. All that was asked - and the whole point of this thread I believe - is why all the hate? There was no need for the harsh attacks - go waste your time on something else. If you'd come here and put across a calm and sensible argument, I would have respected you more.
I can't help but think of Vicky Pollard when I read some of these posts - but if you're not from the UK or familiar with Little Britain, you won't get that. No matter.
I'm going leave this now - I like the musical, but it isn't worth this.
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my_work_my_name
|
| nasarose wrote: | | ....shore...some of us may not have the experience of, say, someone that has graduated, but none-the-less, we have taste....some of us even have class......WICKED is wickedly bad crap...... |
So I must therefore have no taste, since I like Wicked?
I'm not interested in trying to objectively convince poeple that Wicked is a great show - I don't believe in objective greatness. But, I also seriously take issue with the idea of objective badness too. I genuinely got something from the show, and I think the point others are trying to make is that, irrespective of whether or not you like the show on a personal level, it seems rather discourteous to keep on and on about its faults or its 'crapness' when someone who may also love theatre as much as you can see something in it that you can't. There would be no point in me going on about 1st inversion chords or superimposition of unrelated keys in the score of Wicked to someone who hated the musical to try and show them why I like it. Likewise, someone trying to convince me that jukebox musicals are the best thing ever would be a waste of time. But if I know that said person has their own reasons for liking such musicals, then I don't abuse them for it.
Discuss, yes, but don't attack.
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Jenko
|
this is stupid
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nasarose
|
| my_work_my_name wrote: | | nasarose wrote: | | ....shore...some of us may not have the experience of, say, someone that has graduated, but none-the-less, we have taste....some of us even have class......WICKED is wickedly bad crap...... |
So I must therefore have no taste, since I like Wicked?
I'm not interested in trying to objectively convince poeple that Wicked is a great show - I don't believe in objective greatness. But, I also seriously take issue with the idea of objective badness too. I genuinely got something from the show, and I think the point others are trying to make is that, irrespective of whether or not you like the show on a personal level, it seems rather discourteous to keep on and on about its faults or its 'crapness' when someone who may also love theatre as much as you can see something in it that you can't. There would be no point in me going on about 1st inversion chords or superimposition of unrelated keys in the score of Wicked to someone who hated the musical to try and show them why I like it. Likewise, someone trying to convince me that jukebox musicals are the best thing ever would be a waste of time. But if I know that said person has their own reasons for liking such musicals, then I don't abuse them for it.
Discuss, yes, but don't attack. |
i apologize....i was a way harsh.....i'm a debater...i do it a lot....but when a musical is on the verge of becoming annoying and you stop playing it but everyone around is suddenly in love with it....and playing it all the time....i dunno....maybe my hate for this show is more because of over playing.........i do appologize if i did offend, and i may have crossed a couple of lines.......i agree on the jukebox idea....and i find myself constantly telling people why i like certain musicals.....usually i am a "to each their own" kind of person but having someone call opinion childish kind of pushed a button........being degraded because of age isn't fair....i did LOVE WICKED as much as many people do now...but in my area, it is as overplayed as ANNIE
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DramaRobin2002
|
Wow. And here I was thinking the heated "Wicked Wars" had passed back in 2004.
I was completely in love with Wicked for a very long time. When I saw it, back on opening night before the major wave of hype had hit, I was 18. I had just graduated high school. These characters were just starting university. They were being forced into the adult world and were being made to fight for what they believed in. And, teeny bopper as it may be of me, the whole Elphaba/Fiyero/Glinda triangle was very familiar to me from a situation that occured with myself, my best friend and the boy who kept changing his mind of who he liked more. The show did strike a chord in me and actually helped me through a pretty difficult time in my life where I wasn't sure just who I was and what I was supposed to be.
I'm twenty-one now and since my "emerald colored glasses" have come off to reveal that Wicked does has many faults. But I really don't believe it is as bad as many people make it out to be. Wicked is not the theater equivalent of the Anti-Christ but it has been made out that way because of the way the crazed fan base acts like it is the best show ever to be created. It's score is not a Sondheim but it is certainly not the worst score ever written. Really, I think people need to see past that and realize just how many younger people have been drawn into the theater because they saw Wicked. It is a great gateway musical- like Rent. That is why I like Wicked.
I did really enjoy the novel and agree that the musical is not a good adaptation of it, but I really get tired of the "The musical completely butchers the novel" arguement. The musical isn't the novel. It is VERY loosely based off the idea of the novel. They are two seperate entities. Of course, I would consider it a good thing because of how many people where brought to the novel through the musical. I hadn't heard of it before the musical came out but the week after I saw the show, I went out and got the novel and I loved it.
Wicked definitely isn't a theater elitist show, but isn't it doing something right if it sold out practically ever performance its first year on Broadway and now, three years later, is still one of the top grossing Broadway shows?
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katethegreat
|
| nasarose wrote: | | my_work_my_name wrote: | | nasarose wrote: | | ....shore...some of us may not have the experience of, say, someone that has graduated, but none-the-less, we have taste....some of us even have class......WICKED is wickedly bad crap...... |
So I must therefore have no taste, since I like Wicked?
I'm not interested in trying to objectively convince poeple that Wicked is a great show - I don't believe in objective greatness. But, I also seriously take issue with the idea of objective badness too. I genuinely got something from the show, and I think the point others are trying to make is that, irrespective of whether or not you like the show on a personal level, it seems rather discourteous to keep on and on about its faults or its 'crapness' when someone who may also love theatre as much as you can see something in it that you can't. There would be no point in me going on about 1st inversion chords or superimposition of unrelated keys in the score of Wicked to someone who hated the musical to try and show them why I like it. Likewise, someone trying to convince me that jukebox musicals are the best thing ever would be a waste of time. But if I know that said person has their own reasons for liking such musicals, then I don't abuse them for it.
Discuss, yes, but don't attack. |
i apologize....i was a way harsh.....i'm a debater...i do it a lot....but when a musical is on the verge of becoming annoying and you stop playing it but everyone around is suddenly in love with it....and playing it all the time....i dunno....maybe my hate for this show is more because of over playing.........i do appologize if i did offend, and i may have crossed a couple of lines.......i agree on the jukebox idea....and i find myself constantly telling people why i like certain musicals.....usually i am a "to each their own" kind of person but having someone call opinion childish kind of pushed a button........being degraded because of age isn't fair....i did LOVE WICKED as much as many people do now...but in my area, it is as overplayed as ANNIE |
By rights I should hate Wicked by now. I've had to teach it for long enough! I know about how annoying it is when something's overplayed - I guess you forget over here that its been around longer in the states. I don't get this so much because I listen to such a wide variety of stuff if something's starting to annoy me I'll just go listen to the polar opposite, by the time I get back to the other thing, it doesn't annoy me anymore.
I'm sorry you were offended by the age thing - I never meant it to offend, but it clearly did so I'm sorry. If you want a laugh, I just went for a job interview for a teaching post in a saturday school, which if I get it I'll be teaching Annie for the next 6 months! O yay. Mind you going to any job interview when you've lost your voice is not good, but for a singing teacher....Not sure I'll be getting that one!
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Matthew
|
| nasarose wrote: | | having someone call opinion childish kind of pushed a button being degraded because of age isn't fair....i did LOVE WICKED as much as many people do now...but in my area, it is as overplayed as ANNIE |
Finally somone understands me! [kidding]
I couldn't agree anymore with nasarose.
I have met some very imature and naive adults from 18-26.
Childish and bitchy were NOT in anyway the correct words to use.
| katethegreat wrote: | | I doubt any of you would appreciate people constantly bashing one of your favourites. I don't feel any need to attack Cats, or ITW - I hated both. You seem to have a problem with us liking this musical - like I said before, if I like something, I like it. It doesn't have to meet with any elitest criteria for me to like it. |
If someone attacked my favorites I would defend them to the death. Cats is a guilty pleasure...I know it sucks but it is great fun to watch. Into the Woods is probably one of the greatest musicals ever written. Stephen Sondheim is the greatest man who ever lived.
I don't have a problem with you liking it, it's just a matter of that I want to tell you about the aspects of teh show from a extremely critical theatre connoissuer's point of view.
I believe theatre goes to everyone's own taste, but I don't think people can say things are the greatest musical ever if they haven't exposed theirselves to other phenominal theatre.
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nasarose
|
By rights I should hate Wicked by now. I've had to teach it for long enough! I know about how annoying it is when something's overplayed - I guess you forget over here that its been around longer in the states. I don't get this so much because I listen to such a wide variety of stuff if something's starting to annoy me I'll just go listen to the polar opposite, by the time I get back to the other thing, it doesn't annoy me anymore.
I'm sorry you were offended by the age thing - I never meant it to offend, but it clearly did so I'm sorry. If you want a laugh, I just went for a job interview for a teaching post in a saturday school, which if I get it I'll be teaching Annie for the next 6 months! O yay. Mind you going to any job interview when you've lost your voice is not good, but for a singing teacher....Not sure I'll be getting that one![/quote]
i am sorry that you have to teach it....just being backstage when i was in PETER PAN and hearing it non-stop was worse than the "never neverland" singing twice in a row....and worse off on the ANNIE front........just remember that at least in England there is an appriciation for good shows................i understand that for some WICKED is on the list....but that i have been told by people that Gilbert & Sullivan, and even some Sondheim, is awful......you might now understand why i can't trust people around me on their opinions...........they love WICKED because of musical genius but scoff at PIRATES OF PENZANCE and WEST SIDE STORY....given, neither of them the best ever, but they hold great talent.......i just have a problem that the orginal Elphaba couldn't hit a note that was adjusted for her(i owned a book that gave in inside scoop on the show).......i dunno...that just doesn't sit well with me
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Little_Nell
|
Is there actually any point to all of this arguing? You're just going round and round in circles and it's getting a little personal! Maybe we should all just agree to disagree, it would be far simpler.
There are more important things in this world to contemplate after all.
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katethegreat
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: |
If someone attacked my favorites I would defend them to the death. Cats is a guilty pleasure...I know it sucks but it is great fun to watch. Into the Woods is probably one of the greatest musicals ever written. Stephen Sondheim is the greatest man who ever lived.
I don't have a problem with you liking it, it's just a matter of that I want to tell you about the aspects of teh show from a extremely critical theatre connoissuer's point of view.
I believe theatre goes to everyone's own taste, but I don't think people can say things are the greatest musical ever if they haven't exposed theirselves to other phenominal theatre. |
I believe you're extremely critical, I believe you're a theatre connoissuer and I believe you may well haveseen alot more theatre than I had by your age, but please respect that I HAVE seen alot of amazing, phenominal theatre, musical and otherwise - I spent 3 years intensely studying it thanks to my degree! I was a regular theatregoer - musical and otherwise - before and its only lack of money that stops me now dammit 
Why do you assume I know so little?
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Matthew
|
| katethegreat wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: |
If someone attacked my favorites I would defend them to the death. Cats is a guilty pleasure...I know it sucks but it is great fun to watch. Into the Woods is probably one of the greatest musicals ever written. Stephen Sondheim is the greatest man who ever lived.
I don't have a problem with you liking it, it's just a matter of that I want to tell you about the aspects of teh show from a extremely critical theatre connoissuer's point of view.
I believe theatre goes to everyone's own taste, but I don't think people can say things are the greatest musical ever if they haven't exposed theirselves to other phenominal theatre. |
I believe you're extremely critical, I believe you're a theatre connoissuer and I believe you may well haveseen alot more theatre than I had by your age, but please respect that I HAVE seen alot of amazing, phenominal theatre, musical and otherwise - I spent 3 years intensely studying it thanks to my degree! I was a regular theatregoer - musical and otherwise - before and its only lack of money that stops me now dammit
Why do you assume I know so little? |
A lot of the best theater has never crossed the Atlantic. With the exception of SITPWG.
Great musicals:
john & jen
The Spitfire Grill
The Light in the Piazza[the only Broadway musical of the 21st century I like]
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Salome
|
you like piazza better than Dirty Rotten Scoundrels????
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Matthew
|
Touche.
Forgot about that.
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katethegreat
|
| Quote: | | A lot of the best theater has never crossed the Atlantic. With the exception of SITPWG. |
And vice versa. There's plently of amazing theatre on this side of the Atlantic too - don't assume its all american.
When you say 'theater' do you just mean musical theatre? Because there's alot more to theatre than just musicals!
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Matthew
|
I'm speaking of Musicals.
musicals.net.
There are great straight plays too.
Angels in America being one of the best.
Equus coming in close second.
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Salome
|
one of the best British shows that never hit Broadway is "Robert and Elizabeth" a brilliant musical versaion of The Barretts of Wimpole Street.
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katethegreat
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| Salome wrote: | | one of the best British shows that never hit Broadway is "Robert and Elizabeth" a brilliant musical versaion of The Barretts of Wimpole Street. |
Never heard of any of that! I'll have to look into it.
Ok - as far as british musical theatre goes, I'm sorry for ALW, thats all I can really say. But I have seen alot of experimental and new musical theatre in this country that I hope you will be able to see sometime.
As for theatre - I can't know any better whats happening in the US than you can know whats happening here, but I will say there's a hell of a lot of amazing stuff going on here!
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Baker
|
I can't follow this thread anymore. All of the quoting throws me off. 
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Quique
|
| Jenko wrote: | | this is stupid |
Ditto.
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Azaelia
|
Wicked is a different kind of show, because to some people, it's more like a chick flick on stage based on a bunch of books/movies.
I tend to agree with those people, actually.
But I also look beyond the more juvenile aspects, and when I do, I really do feel there are deeper themes. Glinda and Elphaba's moral complexity. The Wizard's complexity. The genius of Defying Gravity.
Not everyone agrees, however, and that's fine. Some like it because it's more simple at first sight; not everyone wants to see depth.
My only real problem with Wicked - as much as I love the show - is the toned down darkness, and the way it ends. But even then, I don't think anyone has to completely agree with a storyline in order to enjoy the story. (I also have various things I dislike about the storyline of several other musicals/books/movies I otherwise love.)
As for the fangirls... eh, not a reason to dislike it. (Though the people who think Idina Menzel's feet are sacred scare me.) But I do understand that the fangirls tend to ruin stuff for people - believe me, I was there before I knew the musical.
| Quote: | Me: So I read a good book, Wicked.
Person: I LOVE THE MUSICAL!
Me: ... never seen it. Did you read the book?
Person: THE MUSICAL IS THE BEST! Oh, uh, the book. Who wrote it again? Megory Gaguire?
Me: ... *facepalm* |
So I do understand. But again, I don't think it's accurate to base a musical's quality on a set of fans.
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katethegreat
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I'd just like to apologise for my behaviour here. Sometimes I let myself get drawn in and I enjoy a good debate - I know I'm not the only one.
Anyway, I'm gonna try and behave myself now.
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