Xack
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What's your least favorite Sondheim show?Not to say that you hate any of them (I know I don't) but which show do you feel just doesn't quite measure up to the standards of the others or just personally don't like as much (and why)?
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qmechanic
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For me, I would say Passion. I understand that the theme is about love that is overly tempered versus love that is overly obsessive and the music is beautiful, but the story just doesn't resonate with me. I understand the work intellectually, but I don't feel it in my heart, if that makes sense. Maybe it's the Italian melodrama that gets to me.
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shakalakababy
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Passion, it's the only one i've really had trouble getting into. I enjoy it a lot but not nearly as much as other sondheim shows.
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Salome
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I agree about Passion. I loved the performances and the themes but for a show called Passion Sondheim's music is strangely unpassionate.
its not a bad show but it doesnt excite me like the rest of his canon does.
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Apples2for10
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I have three: SitPwG, Pacific Overtures, and Night Music.
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wicked_diva
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For me, it's Pacific Overtures, followed by Passion.
But I don't know Bounce at all...
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RainbowJude
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For me, it's easily The Frogs.
I can't believe that anyone could find Passion unpassionate or unemotional. It's one of Sondheim's most passionate and luxurious scores!
I can understand why someone might find the subject matter difficult to watch. What the musical says about the nature of love, passion and obsession is disturbing in how accurate it is about human nature. Even if every person who watches it hasn't gone to those extremes, everyone has experienced the shade of those emotional places at some stage and that makes Passion a bitter pill to swallow if you are happen to recognize the Clara/Giorgio/Fosca within you.
But the way that the story is told in terms of book and score is glorious. It's just relentless in it's seduction; I really feel its as if the score (in particular) draws one deeper and deeper into the emotional world of the show almost beyond one's belief and will - which is so completely appropriate to the narrative that it's mind-boggling.
But I can barely believe that anyone could seriously choose Passion in this thread over Bounce. Seriously, over Bounce?!!
Later days
David
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krisavalon
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Merrily We Roll Along.......by far.
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Barberous
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At the moment, Sunday in the Park with George.
I don't like how Dot basically goes "You treated me and our son badly, but you made pretty art so it's all okay!" In other Sondheim shows that I'm aware of, the characters' wants are treated with more ambivalence. To me, SITPWG romanticises the selfish artist too much.
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Salome
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I cant belive anyone would not love Pacific Overtures or the Frogs....P.O. is so clever and very fun. the way he tell the whole story of Japan's modernization.
and The Frogs..what a great political message! and the new songs he wrote..esp. Hades and Shaw.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| Barberous wrote: | At the moment, Sunday in the Park with George.
I don't like how Dot basically goes "You treated me and our son badly, but you made pretty art so it's all okay!" In other Sondheim shows that I'm aware of, the characters' wants are treated with more ambivalence. To me, SITPWG romanticises the selfish artist too much. |
"Before we're through, I'll get to you, too! God it's so hot!"
Dot acknowledged that she wasn't treated as good as she could have been through the entire relationship.
I wouldn't call George selfish, either. He cares very much for Dot, as he expresses in "Finishing the Hat" and in the dialouge before "We Do Not Belong Together."
They torment each other. George can't take her to the follies. George works like a nut on his painting. But she is one of his other works of art. That's one of the things she cannot understand.
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Pannic
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I concur, Sweeney. You hit the nail right on the head. I feel the best line is
"studying a face... stepping back to look at a face... leaves a little space in the way, like a window, but to see... it's the only way to see..."
On the subject of Passion, I admit I know relatively little, save for one or two clips. But I imagine that perhaps the flaw lies in the fact that Sondheim chose to write a show about emotion, whereas his typical (post WWS) lyrics look more at the psychology of the characters. Just a guess.
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Barberous
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| Quote: | "Before we're through, I'll get to you, too! God it's so hot!"
Dot acknowledged that she wasn't treated as good as she could have been through the entire relationship. |
We agree on that, to an extent. The *first* act is fair to Dot's POV, more or less. The part that irritates me is in Act 2, when her spirit comes back (or whatever) and simpers about how George "gave so much to her". Not true, in my opinion.
| Quote: | I wouldn't call George selfish, either. He cares very much for Dot, as he expresses in "Finishing the Hat" and in the dialouge before "We Do Not Belong Together."
They torment each other. George can't take her to the follies. George works like a nut on his painting. But she is one of his other works of art. That's one of the things she cannot understand. |
I'm with Dot on this one - she understands all too well, that's why she gets out!
George does care, but not enough to translate that into treating Dot properly. He makes one or two references to making himself "connect", but it seems to me that he wants *her* to make all of the effort to understand and accommodate him. And what must she learn to accommodate? That he can't be bothered accommodating her, so deal with it.
I don't mind him being portrayed like that, if the show acknowledges it. In the first act, it does. In the second, everything bows to Art.
I accept that I may have misinterpreted Dot's return in Act 2; how do you see it?
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Kiwi
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I couldn't ever get into Little Night Music.
I agree with Salome, I don't see how people can't like The Frogs or Pacific Overtures.
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ilovebway
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| Kiwi wrote: | | I couldn't ever get into Little Night Music. |
Me either. I got the OLCR from the library and honestly, me and the show just didn't 'click' (which is odd, considering I'm a Sondheim fan). 
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Apples2for10
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| ilovebway wrote: | | Kiwi wrote: | | I couldn't ever get into Little Night Music. |
Me either. I got the OLCR from the library and honestly, me and the show just didn't 'click' (which is odd, considering I'm a Sondheim fan). |
This is understandable, as my friend recently saw a production of Night Music and said that to really 'get it', you have to see it; it's one of those shows, apparently.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| Apples2for10 wrote: | | ilovebway wrote: | | Kiwi wrote: | | I couldn't ever get into Little Night Music. |
Me either. I got the OLCR from the library and honestly, me and the show just didn't 'click' (which is odd, considering I'm a Sondheim fan). |
This is understandable, as my friend recently saw a production of Night Music and said that to really 'get it', you have to see it; it's one of those shows, apparently. |
See it or read it...reading the script of any show helps tremendously as a show consists of music, lyrics, and book together...not separate...when you listen to a show your only getting those parts of it. Too many people love a whole show just because of the music and/or lyrics.
But I agree that seeing ALNM (or in my case reading it) helped a ton with understanding and liking the show.
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RainbowJude
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Passion / The Frogs / ALMNPassion
| Pannic wrote: | | On the subject of Passion, I admit I know relatively little, save for one or two clips. But I imagine that perhaps the flaw lies in the fact that Sondheim chose to write a show about emotion, whereas his typical (post WWS) lyrics look more at the psychology of the characters. |
That's complete rubbish not to mention insulting to Sondheim's other shows because it implies that the other works are devoid of emotion, which is quite simply untrue, as well as to Passion, which has characters that are incredibly psychologically complex. Plus there is no possible way anyone could assess the impact of Passion based on knowing only a part of the show; the show's impact is in how it functions as a whole because of how thoroughly integrated the fragments of book and score are. The show is also phenomenally accomplished in the brilliant development of its relatively few musical themes, using form to illuminate the content of the show in such a lucid, affective and effective manner.
The Frogs
| Kiwi wrote: | | I agree with Salome, I don't see how people can't like The Frogs.... |
As to my placement of The Frogs as my least favourite - well, the whole thing feels like a really great piece of student theatre, which is how it was originally conceived and how it probably plays best as the recent messy Broadway version of the show proved in spades. The commentary that the show offers, while valid, is neither particularly life-changing nor articulated in a particularly original way. While the adaptation certainly relates to it's origin in Greek comedy, following Sondheim's favourite rule regarding form and content, what Sondheim does here is maybe less groundbreaking, less influential and less grand in its ambitions in terms of form in musical theatre - even if it is a lot of fun.
A Little Night Music
| Kiwi wrote: | | I couldn't ever get into A Little Night Music. |
| ilovebway wrote: | | Me either. I got the OLCR from the library and honestly, me and the show just didn't 'click'.... |
| Apples2for10 wrote: | | My friend recently saw a production of A Little Night Music and said that to really 'get it', you have to see it; it's one of those shows, apparently. |
| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | Seeing ALNM (or in my case reading it) helped a ton with understanding and liking the show. |
I find it a very strange notion that people don't "get" A Little Night Music from listening to the score. Musically, it's one of Sondheim's most traditional sounding scores because of it's use of variations of 3/4 time and the obvious pastiche of operetta forms as commentary. Yes, familiarity with the book or a particular production, as with any show, will deepen the connection but, with a good recording like the OBCR or the RNT-CR, the show is completely accessible to the ear and if it isn't - well, frankly, you're just not working hard enough. (Of course, if it's just about personal taste rather than "getting" the score, then that's a different story.)
Later days
David
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Sweeney Hyde
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Re: Passion / The Frogs / ALMN | RainbowJude wrote: |
A Little Night Music
| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | Seeing ALNM (or in my case reading it) helped a ton with understanding and liking the show. |
I find it a very strange notion that people don't "get" A Little Night Music from listening to the score. Musically, it's one of Sondheim's most traditional sounding scores because of it's use of variations of 3/4 time and the obvious pastiche of operetta forms as commentary. Yes, familiarity with the book or a particular production, as with any show, will deepen the connection but, with a good recording like the OBCR or the RNT-CR, the show is completely accessible to the ear and if it isn't - well, frankly, you're just not working hard enough. (Of course, if it's just about personal taste rather than "getting" the score, then that's a different story.)
Later days
David |
I have always loved the score. I was merely suggesting that reading the script helped me put it into context much better than the linner notes for this show in getting a really good grasp on what the show is.
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RainbowJude
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Right to Reply | Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | I have always loved the score. I was merely suggesting that reading the script helped me put it into context much better than the liner notes for this show in getting a really good grasp on what the show is. |
Sure, I get that. I was responding to the topic of conversation in general rather than specifically to your post, which was quoted only to give the context of the discussion.
Later days
David
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Pannic
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I think Sunday is in his top five. It just has something to it... humanity, I think.
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