ACTing up
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What do you think of Raoul's character?truth be told, i hated raoul.
i saw the movie for the first time - never having seen the story live - and i couldn't shake off the feeling of hatred everytime i saw him.
especially when he and christine were singing All I Ask of You - and the phantom was watching.
i wanted her to be with the phantom - even if she can't really be with him, because he's...well, a little strange, and...a murderer and all...but still. i hate raoul. he's such a whiney little whuss, lol.
what about you guys?
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NoOneMournsTheWicked
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At first, I was kind of indifferent towards Raoul. I was too overwhelmed by the show the first time, so I really just didn't notice too much about him. The second time I saw the show, I was determined to focus on the characters themselves and the performances rather than the music and the costumes and the everything else. I saw an amazing Raoul, and on the way home, I got to thinking. Raoul should be pitied. I just felt so bad for the guy. I mean, he spends his whole life vicomte-ing, or whatever it is that he does. Then he goes to the opera, finds his childhood love, and from there, everything should be gravy from there, right? Wrong. He has to deal with the whole Phantom thing, which he's obviously never dealt with anything like that before. I just feel so bad for him, he had no idea how to deal with this, and he almost died in the process.
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flying_pigs
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I don't think he's that bad, some people think he's such a fop but I quite like him. Of course I wanted Christine to chose Erik, but she didn't make that bad a choice by chosing Raoul, Raoul's just like the Phantom, he just wanted to love Christine and make her happy.
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Josefine
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I like Raoul. He is very nice. He has his faults but so does everybody and Erik is excused repeatedly for far worse faults than Raoul has.
In the movie I thought Raoul was great. Erik left me rather cold, Gerry didn't manage to make me feel any sympathy for his character. I just thought he was kind of a crybaby. I the stage show I've often had tears streaming down my face when Christine leaves Erik (not to mention in Leroux's novel) but in the movie... nope. I definately thought she should pick movie Raoul over movie Erik.
Maybe this is why I don't really like the movie? 
This should in no way be seen as Erik bashing. I love Erik and see him as a dear old friend since I've been a fan now for 17 years. But even if I think Erik is great in his own way doesn't mean that I would like to live with him or can't see his faults. Or that I don't like Raoul.
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happyguava
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Raoul annoys me in the movie, but that's nothing to do with his character. just the way he is - he seems like he belongs in one of those animated Disney movies. But I didn't really like the Phantom in the movie either.
I feel sorry for both Raoul and Erik in the show - for all the reasons people have said. Probably Erik moreso though.
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operafantomet
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| Josefine wrote: |
In the movie I thought Raoul was great. Erik left me rather cold, Gerry didn't manage to make me feel any sympathy for his character. I just thought he was kind of a crybaby. I the stage show I've often had tears streaming down my face when Christine leaves Erik (not to mention in Leroux's novel) but in the movie... nope. I definately thought she should pick movie Raoul over movie Erik. |
Aaaaaaamen.
I've always liked Raoul. Hate the guy or not, but he's essential to make the actual storyline work, and he's the one Christine can identify the most with. They both lost a dear parent at quite a young age - Raoul's mother died when giving birth to him, and his father died some years later. We don't know what happened to Christine's mother, but she appears to be dead - and Christine's father also died when she was fairly young (not going by the movie script here! Even in Leoux she wasn't too old when her father died - around 19, I would assume). So they share a pretty similar background (apart from the wealth, of course). This probably made the two youngsters understand eachother and connect in a special way.
In the Leroux novel we alre also told that Raoul grew up with mostly women surrounding him - sisters, a grandmother etc. For him, daddy Daaé has probably been like a father figure or a male rolemodel, while he on the oher hand might have seen Christine as a sister. And then he develope stronger feelings for Christine, and he knows he is bound for another destiny. So he disappears out of her life. But somewhere along the road he loose his father (going by ALW, he is the sole heir of the Chagny title and wealth, while he in Leoux has an elder brother who later dies in a most unnecessairy and sad way) and he is free (almost, anyway) to choose the path of life that he wants.
Re-enters Christine, now a blossoming young woman with a voice that spellbinds the whole of Paris.
How can one claim that Raoul and Christine don't care for eachother, or that Raoul is the wrong choice? They share the same background, and has known eachother for a long time. When they meet again, their feelings blossoms like never before. THAT is what makes the Phantom jealous, THAt is why he kidnaps her and wants to keep her in his underground lair, hidden from other people's admiring eyes (especially the eyes of Raoul).
I'm one of those who can cry my eyes out when seeing the stage production, and I really want Christine to stay with our dear Erik. But I still find Raoul to be the better choice of those two. Simply because I can see a future for Christine with Raoul, something I cannot with the Phantom. (and erase the memory of the movie Raoul giving his beloved wife and mother of his children that lousy little grave which is 1/30 of the size of daddy Daaé's tomb.... Might I ask why the Chagny's didn't have their own family tomb?  Gaaah, stupid movie!). If Christine had stayed with the Phantom, it would have been for HIS sake. But leaving with Raoul was something she did for her own sake. Yeah yeah, call her a selfish bitch and all that - but I find it more selfish of the Phantom to kidnap her and expect her to live underground with him forever. Not even he thinks that's right, so he frees her and the love of her life.
Yeah, hate Raoul or love him. He's still essential to the story.
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Fantine
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I way prefer Christine x Raoul. I love their romance... I think that the Phantom is scary. I don't feel like I could say enough about him since I don't know enough about him, so I'll just shut up now.
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RainyCrystal
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I've always loved Raoul. And I honestly don't see what is there to "hate" about him. He gives Christine love, security, comfort, and happiness, which were what she needed and lacked, not possession, obsession, and fright. Erik is certainly one of the fictional characters whom I sympathize the most, however, despite his dying love for Christine, he really does not know how to love her, and is unable to give her the life that she wants and needs. And Christine loves Raoul like he loves her, and she simply does not love Erik the way she loves Raoul.
~Sissi
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AngMisto8182
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I really like Raoul. He's really nice, and very much the dashing, handsome (in some cases...), romantic, swashbuckling (ish) hero. I'm glad Christine ended up with him because... well, much as I like the Phantom, she didn't really love him like she loved Raoul. It'd take me a long time to explain, and I can if you'd like, but I think what she felt for the Phantom was more pity than actual love. The Phantom couldn't give her what Raoul could- a full life with someone she truly loved. And Raoul is cool anyway, in my opinion. 
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Orestes Fasting
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I don't actually like him that much, but the poor guy doesn't deserve all the abuse he gets from fans, especially for a monstrous, heinous crime like being a nice guy and offering a stable alternative to dear Erik. Frankly, I think the issues he triggers in rabid fans are more interesting than his character itself. When I first got into Phantom I rather disliked him, but now I just find him boring. He has a role to fill in the story, and he does just that and not much else.
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Lady Jemima
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| Quote: | | Raoul annoys me in the movie, but that's nothing to do with his character. just the way he is - he seems like he belongs in one of those animated Disney movies. |
I agree. I think Pat Wilson is a pretty emotionless actor. Even on the Good Morning America special during which he and Emmy sang AIAOY, his face was just dead. But I think the character of Raoul overall has potential, if played by the right actor. As much as some people dislike him (myself included at times) if his character was strong and bold and dashing, it would take away from the Phantom.
Just my two cents.
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Aimee
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I hated the way Raoul's role is down-sized in the film. Their whole relationship was trivialised in a way that it isn't on stage. On stage you see the deep love between them long before she gets into the Phantom's clutches but in the film its just dealt with like a brief 'hello' from and old mate.
It really annoys me when people change the basic story through bad direction. It doesn't matter if it doesn't effect the story, but you have to believe Christine and Raoul do actually love each other for it to work.
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Fantine
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Yes, the 'childhood sweethearts' thing in the movie is so childish and unserious... The stage show takes their childhood love more serious.
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SimplyElymas
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| Lady Jemima wrote: | | Quote: | | Raoul annoys me in the movie, but that's nothing to do with his character. just the way he is - he seems like he belongs in one of those animated Disney movies. |
I agree. I think Pat Wilson is a pretty emotionless actor. Even on the Good Morning America special during which he and Emmy sang AIAOY, his face was just dead. But I think the character of Raoul overall has potential, if played by the right actor. As much as some people dislike him (myself included at times) if his character was strong and bold and dashing, it would take away from the Phantom.
Just my two cents. |
Personally, I think Patrick Wilson is a fantastic actor. (Acting is my thing. I study method acting, have been since I was a dinky little thing.) I loved his work in PotO, far more than Gerry or Emmy. But to each their own, no? 
And Raoul bashing is my pet peeve. It drives me mad. Absolutely mad. Just. . .why? There's really more cause to hate the Phantom than Raoul.
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Aimee
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I agree, it like people who bash Cosette in Les Mis [usually because they prefer Eponine].
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badbananahabit
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I never liked Raoul in the film (the only version I've seen) because I felt he was a very shallow character. - Oh, there's a nobody dancer, let's just ignore her. Ah wait, she's got a beautiful voice and is the main lady, ooh, I want her babies, glad I've got a leg in as we played once when we were younger, hubba hubba.
Poor Phantom on the other hand has taken l'il Christine under his wing and turned her into something great, something she craved. he even reveals himself to her though that's a great fear for him.
Yet Raoul swoops in, stealing poor Phantom's thunder.
These feelings are probably encouraged by the fact that i think the Phantom is hotter than very dull Raoul in the film (shockingly, their hotness ratings switch dramatically in real life).
Either way, I'm backing the Phantom to win in the film... Hope it happens sometime, I'll continue watching.
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Rumpleteazer4760
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I've liked some Raouls and disliked others....for me it all depends on who is playing the character. I've seen Raouls that were dashing and brave and completely devoted to Christine, and I've seen others that were played as foppish, self-interested dandies. If he's played the first way (which is, I think, the way he ought to be played because it fits in with the story better), I like him. If he's played the second way, I don't.
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Fantine
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I love Raoul  Especially in the film... I will explain this some day, just not today.
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Bill_Calhoun
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| Quote: | | I never liked Raoul in the film (the only version I've seen) because I felt he was a very shallow character. - Oh, there's a nobody dancer, let's just ignore her. Ah wait, she's got a beautiful voice and is the main lady, ooh, I want her babies, glad I've got a leg in as we played once when we were younger, hubba hubba. |
I don't see Raoul as a shallow character in the slightest, at least not for the reasons you stated badbananahabit. Whilst Christine is singing "Think of Me", Raoul sings "Can it be, can it be Christine?" This shows that he is happy to see his 'childhood sweetheart', as she puts it. He isn't just wanting to get his leg over.
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broadwaybelle22
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I completley adore Raoul. I think he's charming, handsome, and just wants to protect Christine from the things that are haunting her. There's just no reason to hate his character so strongly. He's essential to the plot. Just think of it this way; If Christine stayed with the Phantom the play would not have been nearly as sad, and the Phantom would be the one everyone was bashing because he stole Christine from the world. We would also never get to see that he still does have some compassion left, no matter what the world did to him, to let Christine go. End Scene.
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MademoiselleMusicals
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I hated Raoul, in the film. He is such a wuss.
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Cake_in_Song
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OP, are you sure the feeling of dread and disgust was not connected to Raoul's Hanson Brother hair cut?
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zeppy1223
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in the musical... for me hes just... there. i always ended up feeling incredibly sorry for the phantom.
but then the movie came along... and raoul really annoyed me. but as many others have mentioned, i didnt feel much sympathy for the phantom in the movie either. during all i ask of you in the musicals its like... awwww poor phantom! and in the movie... oh well.
hmmm... im bad at explaining myself 
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audreydarling
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I like Raoul a lot as well..I think it makes a lot mroe sense in the dtage show why...in the movie Christine is attracted to the Phantom romantically as well as Raoul and in the stage show she is only attracted to Raoul romantically and thinks of the Phantom as her father..I love the Phantom and Raoul both ..but the Phantom has this darkness and this mysterious temper that like Fantine said can be kind of scary..and Raoul is just your ordinary handsome dashing Viscount..plus "All I Ask of You" is such a great duet...I also agree with Aimee..it's very similar to people prefering Eponine over Cosette in Les Miserables...people like the tragic love/unrequited love becasue they can sympathize with it (especially those of us who are single out there and have been interested in people who have not returned the feeling was too many times).
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Fosca
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Steve Barton's and Michael Shawn Lewis' potrayals of Raoul is the only one I've been able to like so far. The movie, I didn't really like much about it, but I think that Patrick Wilson was one of the only good things about it. I'm not going to get into that though.
I honestly feel like I'm the only one who thinks Raoul is a genuine guy, and doesn't deserve the flack he gets from fans. Realistically it's hard to see how Erik and Christine would make their relationship work. If he had gotten frustrated with her, it could lead to drastic consequences for Christine.
Don't get me wrong. Erik and Christine relationship is quite fasinating, but I don't think it's possible to achieve an understanding, healthy relationship for the both of them. All things considered, I think Christine was probably thinking of what was best for her, and that was part of her reasoning throughout the play.
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vicki_girl
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Okay, so I've only skimmed through this thread, but this is my 2 cents...
In general, I like Raoul. He is a decent guy who had a childhood sweetheart, and when he sees her at the opera, he falls for her all over again. I don't like the fop, dandy, whatever idea. He wouldn't have followed her into the Phantom's lair if he was that type, or if his feelings for her were shallow.
In the movie, (Patrick Wilson is it?) he SUCKS. I personally thought all the leads were terrible. Both Raoul and Christine couldn't act. I think I've gotten more emotional over having my breakfast burned, than they did about their love and the prospect of dying.
And the Phantom couldn't sing.
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broadwaybelle22
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"I honestly feel like I'm the only one who thinks Raoul is a genuine guy, and doesn't deserve the flack he gets from fans."
No, as it says in my previous post I love his character. You're not that special lol. And a bunch of other people on this thread think he's a great guy...
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What Is This Feeling?
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I think he is cool, lol. I saw: John Caudia when I saw The Phantom of the Opera on Broadway. He has a nice part. I think he is very protective over Christine, and he loves her very much. I would actually rather play Raoul before I'd play Raoul before The Phantom of the Opera. Not that I dislike The Phantom, it's just I see myself playing Raoul more. He is also very brave, and he has a lovely duet with Christine in "All I Ask Of You". He is also the narrator of the musical. Yes, I like him. 
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Glinda Upland
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I like him better in th show than in the book.
In the book he is like a toddler throwing temper tantrums all the time! 
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What Is This Feeling?
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Lol, I really wouldn't call him that whiny. He's just trying to save Christine from somone who he thinks is mad! He really loves Christine though. He almost died for her! I think he is a very important character though. Although, literally he doesn't have that much attention musically, besides All I Ask Of Yoou and Notes/ Prima Donna and Little Lotte. I don't know it just seems that in musically he just wasn't used that much, anyone else get that?
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Glinda Upland
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| What Is This Feeling? wrote: | | Lol, I really wouldn't call him that whiny. He's just trying to save Christine from somone who he thinks is mad! He really loves Christine though. He almost died for her! I think he is a very important character though. Although, literally he doesn't have that much attention musically, besides All I Ask Of Yoou and Notes/ Prima Donna and Little Lotte. I don't know it just seems that in musically he just wasn't used that much, anyone else get that? |
True.
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What Is This Feeling?
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I know, yay! You agree with me! It just feels like he wasn't used enough musically. I think maybe he should have gotten his own song ,perhaps?
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Glinda Upland
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yes.
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zeppy1223
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| vicki_girl wrote: | | I think I've gotten more emotional over having my breakfast burned, than they did about their love and the prospect of dying. |
well said.
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jcstar
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My opinion of Raoul? He's a dweeb.
He's my least favourite character in the story. Although I liked the long-hair look in the film and Wilson almost made me love the character... but that was only because of his look and voice. I also think that RRaoul is a poorly written part. Very cardboard, Price Charming sort of... stuff.
In short, "Yuck!"
Andy.
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broadwaybelle22
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| jcstar wrote: | My opinion of Raoul? He's a dweeb.
He's my least favourite character in the story. Although I liked the long-hair look in the film and Wilson almost made me love the character... but that was only because of his look and voice. I also think that RRaoul is a poorly written part. Very cardboard, Price Charming sort of... stuff.
In short, "Yuck!"
Andy. |
I like the fact that he is a dashing Prince Charming type. I wish there were more men in the world like that. He is my favorite character in the show. Ok, mabey it's because I'm a teenage girl who still dreams of getting swept off her feet with romance, but I belive he contributes a lot to Phantom.
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Ulla Dance Again!
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I like him a lot better in the actual novel. I don't think the musical does him justice.
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Glinda Upland
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You know, you couln't have phantom without him.
(Even though Erik Rocks!)
~
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What Is This Feeling?
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I want to have sex with Raoul!!!!!!!
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mistocopat
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A little too much info. 
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Glinda Upland
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| mistocopat wrote: | | A little too much info. |
Ummm... WELL PUT! Lol!
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Shish ke Bill
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For some reason, the movie also made me hate Raoul with a fervent passion. When the Phantom put the rope around his neck, I unintentionally let out a squeal of glee, and I realized, wait a second, this isn't how it's supposed to be. Even having never seen the live show, I can tell something was done wrong there.
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Paula74
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| Shish ke Bill wrote: | | For some reason, the movie also made me hate Raoul with a fervent passion. When the Phantom put the rope around his neck, I unintentionally let out a squeal of glee, and I realized, wait a second, this isn't how it's supposed to be. Even having never seen the live show, I can tell something was done wrong there. |
I disliked the movie's take on the character (and it spawned an awful lot of hate for the character that carried over into unwarrented bashing of Patrick Wilson who was merely playing the role as scripted/directed). I felt the film made him very patronizing and dismissive and bland.
As for the stage version, it really depends on the actor. My favorites include Steve Barton (he just seemed to be the classic dashing and romantic gentleman), Hugh Panaro (there was something endearingly boyish, though spoiled about him), Jim Weitzer (just a nicely balanced performance), and...my top pick...Michael Shawn Lewis who was appropriately charming and gallant and eager and actually reacts to the kiss to save him in the end.
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crluvalotbear
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when i first heard sarah brightman and steve barton sing "all i ask of you," i cried and knew instantaneously that the man i will marry must be able to sing that song with me
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Eponine93
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| Quote: | | I also think that Raoul is a poorly written part. |
I remember someone saying something in the Les Mis thread about Cosette being a poorly written character in the musical but good in the book. Though I've never read the Phantom novel, I definitely think it can be taken the same way.
In both Phantom and Les Mis, there are two characters who are love with another (Erik with Christine, and Eponine with Marius.) They sing heart-rendering songs about them, do everything in their power to get them to love them. The audiences roots for them. Then the objects of their affections are taken by someone else (Cosette and Raoul, respectively.) Obviously, the audience hates the person who took them away from the character you root for.
And that is why a lot of people (including me) dislike Raoul. Otherwise, the Phantom would have had a much easier time getting Christine.
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shakalakababy
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I hated Raoul in the movie. I just found his character incredibly annoying. In the actual show though he was okay. It's still all about the phantom. But I do agree that Raoul's character was written much better in the novel
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me-shellmybelle
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I love Raoul and Christine. He loves her but still gives her room to grow as she pleases. Erik smothers her and frightens her. Im a big fan of All I ask of You because of special memories with a special someone singing to me so I think that song is amazing! Raoul knows how to love whereas Erik just wants to be loved and he saw potential or even thought he had the real thing with Christine.
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