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MusicalGal1194

Were Rapuzel and her Prince ever actually married?

I have the OBC on DVD, and I don't remember it being said that Rapunzel and Rapunzel's prince were married.
Was it implied? Did I just miss it?

And if they were not married, that brings up Rapunzel bearing twins. She would of had them out of wedlock, which raises the question: would the twins ever be heir to the throne, assuming Cinderella and Cinderella's prince were deceased and without children?

Discuss, good people!
Mungojerrie_rt

She conceived the twins whilst still in the tower. So they were born illigitimately anyway.

What I want to know is; what happens to the twins in the second act? They just aren't there.
ConverseSneaker

In the orginal version of the Grimm's tale of Rapunzel, she askes the Witch why her dress was too small for her stomach, because the Witch never taught her sex education and how to use birth control Wink

I always wondered about the kids too. Mostly because we used my little sister's millions of dolls during the show and I was always the one who would find them when one would go missing.
Baker

I've always suspected that somewhere along the way the twins end up with a lonely old man (perhaps an aged Rapunzel's Prince?) who decides to marry, giving them a wicked old stepmother. They end up lost in the woods after some trickery from said stepmother and try to follow a trail of breadcrumbs back home and... well, you get the idea.
Kragey

Baker wrote:
I've always suspected that somewhere along the way the twins end up with a lonely old man (perhaps an aged Rapunzel's Prince?) who decides to marry, giving them a wicked old stepmother. They end up lost in the woods after some trickery from said stepmother and try to follow a trail of breadcrumbs back home and... well, you get the idea.


I thought of something like that, too, although coming from an old-school European family, I thought of Jorinda and Jorindel instead.
The Drama Queen

My theory is that Rapunzel and her Price were married after the First Act Finale, and the combined pressures of being a royal, having kids to take care of, and just having responisbilities are what triggered her to "snap" and just go nuts.
blue wind

Baker wrote:
I've always suspected that somewhere along the way the twins end up with a lonely old man (perhaps an aged Rapunzel's Prince?) who decides to marry, giving them a wicked old stepmother. They end up lost in the woods after some trickery from said stepmother and try to follow a trail of breadcrumbs back home and... well, you get the idea.


i agree.
MusicalGal1194

I didn't know about the no-sex-education in the original fairy tale! That's kind of neat. Because it makes perfect sense that the witch wouldn't teach it; she was trying to hide Rapunzel away from the world and was so stubborn she wouldn't even consider the possibility that Rapunzel would/could concieve, much less find someone to concieve with.

I always sort of assumed that Rapunzel's twins were whisked away to the Royal Nursery by Rapunzel's Prince, and would be raised there.

But my theory is stilited, because it begs the question: What happens to the twins when the giant comes, and everyone evacuates the castle?

But I'm liking the Hansel and Gretel sort of idea!
ConverseSneaker

MusicalGal1194 wrote:
I didn't know about the no-sex-education in the original fairy tale! That's kind of neat. Because it makes perfect sense that the witch wouldn't teach it; she was trying to hide Rapunzel away from the world and was so stubborn she wouldn't even consider the possibility that Rapunzel would/could concieve, much less find someone to concieve with.


But I'm liking the Hansel and Gretel sort of idea!


Oh yes. Grimm eventually rewrote it to censor it for kids so Rapunzel instead asked the Witch in a moment of blondeness while the Prince was so much faster at climbing than her.

I also like the Hansel and Gretel idea a lot. I may write a fanfiction on it.
ilovebway

Baker wrote:
I've always suspected that somewhere along the way the twins end up with a lonely old man (perhaps an aged Rapunzel's Prince?) who decides to marry, giving them a wicked old stepmother. They end up lost in the woods after some trickery from said stepmother and try to follow a trail of breadcrumbs back home and... well, you get the idea.


I actually really, really like this idea.
music is my life!!!

in act 2 she gets suished by the giantess so , no they don't get married

Sad

as far as i can tell, they don't even stick together very long Wink
Baker

Rapunzel and her Prince are married between Act I and Act II.

Agony Reprise: "Ah, well, back to my wife."
DramaTwinkie17

Actually Rapunzel doesn't give birth to the twins in the tower, it happens later in the desert.

"Witch: What's the matter?

Rapunzel: Oh, nothing! You just locked me in a tower without company for fourteen years, then blinded my Prince and banished me to a desert where I had little to eat, and again no company, and then bore twins! Because of the way you treated me, I'll never never be happy! (she cries)"

~DT
Tumnus1031

I always thought Rapunzel and her Prince got around the same time as Cindy and the other prince. And as for the kids...I kinda just assumed they died when the castle got trampled, which would make sense if it weren't for the fact that the Stepmother and Father and sisters and Steward make it out. Wouldn't the Prince's kids have priority over the inlaws and the Steward? After all, it is his job to sacrifice himself for the good of the kingdom.

So I'm going with the Hansel and Gretel idea, which is pure genius, Baker. In case you haven't gotten that gist already. I agree with the Royal Nursery thing, too, so...

Rapunzel and her Prince get married after Rapunzel has the twins. Rapunzel at first tries to care for the kids, but the stress of royalty and maintaining a marriage, coupled with her past, cause her to reach the point of insanity. She flees the castle, while her Prince chases after her, but not before dumping the kids at the Royal Nursery. When the castle is destroyed by the Giant, the Royal family escapes and the children are placed underneath the care of a widowed (probably rich and influential) male villager until the Prince returns. He doesn't. So the rich influential villager loses everything and moves to the woods with a bitchy woman he probably marries out of convenience. And thus Hansel and Gretel occur. Hooray!
ConverseSneaker

The poor Baker, he's pratically running an orphanage now Laughing

Himself
His son(well, he's a half orphan)
Cinderella(mother dead, father left her)
Red
Jack
Rapunzel's twins
MusicalGal1194

LOL Shoe!

Hey now that Red and Jack have been mentioned, I've been meaning to post this question to you all: Do you think that Red and Jack could of had / did have a sort of quasi-romance going on towards the end of the show or after the show ends? (i.e. Where the musical leaves off.) Because of the whole "I can be your mother now!" "What I really need, is a friend." thing, I thought maybe...just maybe...they would be more than friends?
Patrick

MusicalGal1194 wrote:
LOL Shoe!

Hey now that Red and Jack have been mentioned, I've been meaning to post this question to you all: Do you think that Red and Jack could of had / did have a sort of quasi-romance going on towards the end of the show or after the show ends? (i.e. Where the musical leaves off.) Because of the whole "I can be your mother now!" "What I really need, is a friend." thing, I thought maybe...just maybe...they would be more than friends?


bawm chikka wawu-wouwn
MusicalGal1194

Lmaooo Patrick I think that just made my day.... Laughing Applause

So my theory on Red/Jack is this: After the musical leaves off, Jack and Red live with the Baker for a while. Eventually, the two fall in love and get married. Jack becomes a milliner and Red is a hunter (lol) and they have a house of their own by The Woods. Soon, Red gives birth to a daughter. this daughter grows up to be a fair beauty. But, money is tight around the house, so Jack lies to the king and says that his daughter can spin straw into gold (because he remembers the gold from his 'land in the sky' and has fond memories of it). Daughter marries Prince, has baby. Rumplestiltsken comes along........And, folks, you know the rest of the story.
Tumnus1031

I also read a story on Fanfiction.net where Jack and Red were married and their kid was Goldilocks. Either one works, but I like MusicalGal's better.

All these ideas have given me an idea for a fanfiction...Into the Woods 2...must...write...now!

*Scurries off to write*
Baker

Way, way, way back there was a HUGE thread where everybody pitched in their ideas for Into the Woods 2. We called in "Back to the Woods." Some things that I remember:

* Rapunzel's Prince ditches Snow White and is cursed by a witch into a frog, thus, the Frog Prince.

* Likewise, Cinderella's Prince ditches Sleeping Beauty and is cursed by a witch into a hideous beast, thus, Beauty and the Beast.

* Cinderella is stepmother to the Baker's son, called Peter, who is the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

* Red and Jack are married and house Hansel, Gretel, and their own daughter, Goldilocks. They live where the first beanstalk grew, attempting to make money, but the beanstalk has made the land fruitless.

* We also incorporated Rumpelstiltskin somehow.

There was an enormous plot that I can't quite remember now. Hansel and Gretel discover that they were adopted and, feeling betrayed, wander off into the woods. Goldilocks gets into some sort of fight with Jack and also runs off. Peter is in obvious danger when the original Wolf's brother returns to avenge the man who sliced his brother open. Red runs into the woods after Goldilocks. Our three house settings at the beginning, mirroring Cinderella's, Jack's, and the Baker's in ITW, were Jack's, the Baker's, and the home of an old man and his daughter Mary, who would play out the tale of Rumpelstiltskin.

Thinking back on it, it had way too many fairy tales trying to take place at the same time and no common thread to tie it all together. It was fun to plot though.
Tumnus1031

Well, if that thread is ever found, I must see it.
MusicalGal1194

Ooooh thats so awesome!!! *drools* If they ever were to make an Into the Woods: The Sequel (or Back to the Woods, whichever) they should SO let us write it.
ConverseSneaker

I figured that afterwards, Red ended up taking over for the Baker when he dies with her love of sweets. Besides that, if you watch the dvd, you'll notice her wolf coat goes missing in act 2. I think she lost her bloodlust after the giant.

I did write a short oneshot fanfiction and posted it on fanfiction.net about after they left the woods, but it didn't go into anything specific, it was just one year later. Props to anyone who can figure out which one is mine. I may write another one. That would be an interesting story. Very Happy

As for the Prince as the Beast, I did read a fanfic once where the Princes had a third brother who was worse than his brothers(he'd actually rape peasant girls rather than seduce them) and a Witch(didn't specify if it was The Witch or not) cursed him, turning him into a beast. Not just any beast, but the Wolf. Little Red Riding Hood's Wolf.
Tenalto

Quote:
As for the Prince as the Beast, I did read a fanfic once where the Princes had a third brother who was worse than his brothers(he'd actually rape peasant girls rather than seduce them) and a Witch(didn't specify if it was The Witch or not) cursed him, turning him into a beast. Not just any beast, but the Wolf. Little Red Riding Hood's Wolf.


That's terrifying, but I love it.
MusicalGal1194

Tenalto wrote:
Quote:
As for the Prince as the Beast, I did read a fanfic once where the Princes had a third brother who was worse than his brothers(he'd actually rape peasant girls rather than seduce them) and a Witch(didn't specify if it was The Witch or not) cursed him, turning him into a beast. Not just any beast, but the Wolf. Little Red Riding Hood's Wolf.


That's terrifying, but I love it.



Same here! Do you know where we can find that specific fanfic?
Baker

Interesting idea. I'm not sure if I like it or not actually lol.

Edit: Found it! It's... different... a warning, though, it's a bit graphic.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3852948/1/The_Torture_They_Teach
Kragey

Baker wrote:

* Rapunzel's Prince ditches Snow White and is cursed by a witch into a frog, thus, the Frog Prince.


That's actually a cute idea.
ConverseSneaker

Baker wrote:
Interesting idea. I'm not sure if I like it or not actually lol.

Edit: Found it! It's... different... a warning, though, it's a bit graphic.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3852948/1/The_Torture_They_Teach


That's the one.
ConverseSneaker

Well, I was working on my Hansel and Gretel meet the Baker fanfic when I realized something else.

In the 'non-existent' part of Sleeping Beauty about what happened afterwards, she also has twins, a girl named Dawn and a boy named Day. And the prince's mother, an orge tries to eat them and her.

Apparently having twins runs in the family.
MusicalGal1194

ConverseSneaker wrote:


Apparently having twins runs in the family.


This will sound corny, but that revelation absolutely gave me chills. The structure of Into the Woods, and all the research that must of went in to creating it's plot, is completely astounding. It's like...like a beautifully crafted, delicately detailed pastry creation. The work that went into it is what's behind the beauty. (And the taste is phenominal, too!)
Bad metaphor, but still. That's SO COOL!
ConverseSneaker

MusicalGal1194 wrote:
ConverseSneaker wrote:


Apparently having twins runs in the family.


This will sound corny, but that revelation absolutely gave me chills. The structure of Into the Woods, and all the research that must of went in to creating it's plot, is completely astounding. It's like...like a beautifully crafted, delicately detailed pastry creation. The work that went into it is what's behind the beauty. (And the taste is phenominal, too!)
Bad metaphor, but still. That's SO COOL!


I love my knowledge and books of faerie tales! Another "secret" fact about Sleeping Beauty: In the orginial Grimm tale, she doesn't wake up over 'True Love's First Kiss' but labor pains when she gives birth to her twins. The Prince bloody rapes her in her sleep. How romantic.... Rolling Eyes
Tenalto

^I've read another version where Sleeping Beauty fell into the cursed sleep because a splinter of flax got lodged under her fingernail. The prince finds her, has his way with her, and leaves. She has the twins, but doesn't wake up until one of them starts sucking on her finger in an attempt to find food and dislodges the flax splinter. THEN she wakes up. A little later, the prince comes back for more and discovers, hey, he's a dad! So he takes SB and the kids back to his castle (where he's already married, btw), and sets them up there. His wife is, understandably, furious and hates SB. She tries to kill her and the kids and eat them, etc.

You know what's even creepier? In some of the older versions of the Snow White story, it's SW actual mother, not a step-mother, who gets jealous of her beauty. She doesn't just try to kill her, either -- she actually succeeds. SW's father gets massively p.o.-ed and kills the mother and somehow brings daughter dearest back to life. Kind of uncomfortable, no?
Kragey

I'm obsessed with fairytales. My advisor thought I was looney when I suggested specializing in fairy tales for my graduate's degree(s), LOL!

One thing that most modern versions of Sleeping Beauty change, but people rarely notice it: they make it so that Sleeping Beauty's family dies and a new family takes over. That way, when the Prince sleeps with her, it isn't incest.

In the old days, Europeans were just like, "Eh, she sleeps with her grandnephew or something. Whatever." XD
Vanessa20

ConverseSneaker wrote:
MusicalGal1194 wrote:
ConverseSneaker wrote:


Apparently having twins runs in the family.


This will sound corny, but that revelation absolutely gave me chills. The structure of Into the Woods, and all the research that must of went in to creating it's plot, is completely astounding. It's like...like a beautifully crafted, delicately detailed pastry creation. The work that went into it is what's behind the beauty. (And the taste is phenominal, too!)
Bad metaphor, but still. That's SO COOL!


I love my knowledge and books of faerie tales! Another "secret" fact about Sleeping Beauty: In the orginial Grimm tale, she doesn't wake up over 'True Love's First Kiss' but labor pains when she gives birth to her twins. The Prince bloody rapes her in her sleep. How romantic.... Rolling Eyes



It's actually not in the Grimm tale that the prince rapes her; it's in even earlier versions. The Grimm version was the first one to have him wake her up with a kiss instead.

Just sharing my knowledge, as I like to do too much for my own good.
ConverseSneaker

^Probably true. The Grimms took all the faerie tales they ever heard and put them into a book. Then they decided to censor it for the sake of all the little children.

Quote:
I've read another version where Sleeping Beauty fell into the cursed sleep because a splinter of flax got lodged under her fingernail. The prince finds her, has his way with her, and leaves. She has the twins, but doesn't wake up until one of them starts sucking on her finger in an attempt to find food and dislodges the flax splinter. THEN she wakes up. A little later, the prince comes back for more and discovers, hey, he's a dad! So he takes SB and the kids back to his castle (where he's already married, btw), and sets them up there. His wife is, understandably, furious and hates SB. She tries to kill her and the kids and eat them, etc.

I heard this one but had forgotten it until you said it! Except I heard it the evil ogre mother in law.

Quote:
You know what's even creepier? In some of the older versions of the Snow White story, it's SW actual mother, not a step-mother, who gets jealous of her beauty. She doesn't just try to kill her, either -- she actually succeeds. SW's father gets massively p.o.-ed and kills the mother and somehow brings daughter dearest back to life. Kind of uncomfortable, no?

Ok, I hadn't heard this one....

Quote:
One thing that most modern versions of Sleeping Beauty change, but people rarely notice it: they make it so that Sleeping Beauty's family dies and a new family takes over. That way, when the Prince sleeps with her, it isn't incest.

In the old days, Europeans were just like, "Eh, she sleeps with her grandnephew or something. Whatever

Shocked I never thought that! I always heard/read/was told that her family fell asleep too(disney style!) and a prince from another kingdom discovered the castle and found her.
MusicalGal1194

ConverseSneaker wrote:
MusicalGal1194 wrote:
ConverseSneaker wrote:


Apparently having twins runs in the family.


This will sound corny, but that revelation absolutely gave me chills. The structure of Into the Woods, and all the research that must of went in to creating it's plot, is completely astounding. It's like...like a beautifully crafted, delicately detailed pastry creation. The work that went into it is what's behind the beauty. (And the taste is phenominal, too!)
Bad metaphor, but still. That's SO COOL!


I love my knowledge and books of faerie tales! Another "secret" fact about Sleeping Beauty: In the orginial Grimm tale, she doesn't wake up over 'True Love's First Kiss' but labor pains when she gives birth to her twins. The Prince bloody rapes her in her sleep. How romantic.... Rolling Eyes


Creeeeeepy.
Vanessa20

ConverseSneaker wrote:

Shocked I never thought that! I always heard/read/was told that her family fell asleep too(disney style!) and a prince from another kingdom discovered the castle and found her.


Charles Perrault version: Her parents die, a new family takes over, and that's where the prince comes from.

Grimm version: Her parents fall asleep too and a prince from another kingdom finds her.


Just showing off my knowledge yet again.
MusicalGal1194

Vanessa20 wrote:
ConverseSneaker wrote:

Shocked I never thought that! I always heard/read/was told that her family fell asleep too(disney style!) and a prince from another kingdom discovered the castle and found her.


Charles Perrault version: Her parents die, a new family takes over, and that's where the prince comes from.

Grimm version: Her parents fall asleep too and a prince from another kingdom finds her.


Just showing off my knowledge yet again.


It's truly amazing how much history is behind fairy tales, you know? Theres just so much to explore.
Tumnus1031

*Gasp* I've actually found other people who love fairy tales as much as I do! Hoorah!

*Cheers and dances*

I'm actually writing a novel(la) that takes themes and stuff directly from fairy tales, and I wrote a paper on them for English class (wrote two pages over the limit and got a 96!) I <3 Fairy tales.
ConverseSneaker

^I did a research paper on Roman mythology and how it influenced every day life(then and now). I think I had the best one in the class.
Baker

Sad I missed some of this conversation, as I've done lengthy research on fairy tales.

As far as the twins thing, it's a common thread in all fairy tales. Although I guess it's more of a pair-of-siblings thing, not necessarily twins: Rapunzel's children, Cinderella's stepsisters, Hansel and Gretel, Brother and Sister, Sleeping Beauty's children, Beauty from Beauty and the Beast commonly has two sisters, Snow-white and Rose-red, the sisters from Diamonds and Toads... etc.

The Grimms changed many mothers into stepmothers to make it somewhat less gruesome: Snow White, Cinderella, Hansel and Gretel, all were originally tortured by their birth mothers.

Quote:
You know what's even creepier? In some of the older versions of the Snow White story, it's SW actual mother, not a step-mother, who gets jealous of her beauty. She doesn't just try to kill her, either -- she actually succeeds. SW's father gets massively p.o.-ed and kills the mother and somehow brings daughter dearest back to life. Kind of uncomfortable, no?


Somewhat true, I guess. Speaking from Grimm, she doesn't really succeed in killing her, just manages to poison her through the apple (although usually the apple is lodged in her throat, not magically poisoned). When Snow White is revived (by dislodging the apple in her throat when the horse carrying her coffin trips, not by a kiss), she returns to court and the mother is forced to dance while wearing iron shoes that have been heated over a fire until she dies from them.

Snow White's one of the darkest tales ever. When you really think about it, it's all about murder, cannibalism, with touches of pedophilia and sometimes incest.
Tumnus1031

Quote:
Sad I missed some of this conversation, as I've done lengthy research on fairy tales.

As far as the twins thing, it's a common thread in all fairy tales. Although I guess it's more of a pair-of-siblings thing, not necessarily twins: Rapunzel's children, Cinderella's stepsisters, Hansel and Gretel, Brother and Sister, Sleeping Beauty's children, Beauty from Beauty and the Beast commonly has two sisters, Snow-white and Rose-red, the sisters from Diamonds and Toads... etc.

The Grimms changed many mothers into stepmothers to make it somewhat less gruesome: Snow White, Cinderella, Hansel and Gretel, all were originally tortured by their birth mothers.

Quote:
You know what's even creepier? In some of the older versions of the Snow White story, it's SW actual mother, not a step-mother, who gets jealous of her beauty. She doesn't just try to kill her, either -- she actually succeeds. SW's father gets massively p.o.-ed and kills the mother and somehow brings daughter dearest back to life. Kind of uncomfortable, no?


Somewhat true, I guess. Speaking from Grimm, she doesn't really succeed in killing her, just manages to poison her through the apple (although usually the apple is lodged in her throat, not magically poisoned). When Snow White is revived (by dislodging the apple in her throat when the horse carrying her coffin trips, not by a kiss), she returns to court and the mother is forced to dance while wearing iron shoes that have been heated over a fire until she dies from them.

Snow White's one of the darkest tales ever. When you really think about it, it's all about murder, cannibalism, with touches of pedophilia and sometimes incest.


Shocked

Sir, TEACH ME.
ConverseSneaker

The iron shoes.... If induced hives is anything like those shoes, then I pity the Queen.


If you think about it, all faerie tales are dark and creepy. Little Red Riding Hood/Little Red Cap is filled with pedophilia, rape, murder and sometimes cannibilism. Sleeping Beauty is, as we know now, has the second side where the prince rapes her and her orge in law tries to eat her/Prince's first wife tries to kill her. Hansel and Gretel-cannibilism, evil mothers.
Tumnus1031

Oh, Red Riding Hood...you devious little whore, you.

Quote:
In Perrault’s version, the wolf does not dress up as the grandmother; he simply lies in the bed and requests that the girl get in with him, and she obliges. Perrault attempts to eliminate sexual implications from his story, as they were prominent in a much more crude retelling dubbed “The Story of Grandmother” in which the girl eats the flesh and blood of her grandmother and climbs into bed naked with the wolf (Tartar 5, 10-11). Regardless of his efforts, this is still the first of many sexual themes that find their way through the words (Bettelheim 167). Little Red Riding Hood does not resist these obvious advances, so, according to Bettelheim: “…either she is stupid or she wants to be seduced. [….] With these details Little Red Riding Hood is changed from a naïve, attractive young girl […] into nothing but a fallen woman” (169).


That's my paper. Well, part of it. I'll take any excuse to show it off. >.>

Oh, and in Cinderella the fur/glass slipper can be seen as a symbol for the va-jay-jay. Yup. Preeetty interesting stuff there.
Baker

Little Red Riding Hood was originally coined to warn children about sexual predators.

Cinderella dates back to the ancient Egyptians in a tale about a Greek girl named Rhodopis who is made of by the other slaves because she looks different (she's blonde with green eyes and burns easily in the sun) and because her master favors her. The master favors her so much that he gives her a pair of red-gold sandals. One day, one of the gods (I forget which, but I'm pretty sure he's in the form of a falcon... at any rate, he's in the form of some sort of bird) steals one of her sandals and carries it to the Pharoah, who decides the shoe is so beautiful that he must marry the wearer. Thus, the search and thus, Rhodopis becomes the Pharoah's wife.
ConverseSneaker

Horus, if my memory of Egyptian gods serves me right. But are you sure that Rodophis is the oldest Cinderella? I thought it was Yen Shen and her golden slipper. http://www.myseveralworlds.com/2007/08/02/yeh-shen-the-chinese-cinderella/

Quote:
Oh, Red Riding Hood...you devious little whore, you.

She'd rather take a wolf than you anyday! Wink
Mungojerrie_rt

It might have been Harwer or Montu. They were both commonly portrayed as Hawks too. (Never mention Egyption religion around me.)
MusicalGal1194

ConverseSneaker wrote:


Quote:
Oh, Red Riding Hood...you devious little whore, you.

She'd rather take a wolf than you anyday! Wink



Bow chicka wah wow!



Jk. This is all amazing! I had no idea that fairy tales had such a rich history. I am loving this; eating it all up. You are all so knowledgable!
Tumnus1031

[quote="ConverseSneaker"]Horus, if my memory of Egyptian gods serves me right. But are you sure that Rodophis is the oldest Cinderella? I thought it was Yen Shen and her golden slipper. http://www.myseveralworlds.com/2007/08/02/yeh-shen-the-chinese-cinderella/

I actually remember hearing that Yeh-Shen story. At least, the fish sounds familiar.

Quote:
She'd rather take a wolf than you anyday! Wink


Ew. Bestiality.
ConverseSneaker

Someone rewrote Yen Shen based on her childhood pretty recently...I think it's called Chinese Cinderella, but I don't remember how similar the two are.
Baker

ConverseSneaker wrote:
Someone rewrote Yen Shen based on her childhood pretty recently...I think it's called Chinese Cinderella, but I don't remember how similar the two are.


I'm pretty sure that that's just the title of the woman's biography, as she is Chinese and was brought up by her real-life wicked stepmother. Although I also think that the author offers a summarized version of the Ye Xian/Yeh Shen tale.

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure which of the two is older, Chinese or Egyptian. I guess I always imagined that the Egyptian dated back to 2,000 or so B.C. but according to Wikipedia, it was first recorded somewhere in the first century B.C. Of course it was probably an oral tale long before that. According to Wikipedia, the Ye Xian version of Cinderella didn't appear in writing until the ninth century A.D.

I looked it up and the falcon was, in fact, Horus.

A great book based on the Chinese legends of Cinderella is "Bound" by Donna Jo Napoli. To further tie in with Into the Woods, she has also rewritten Rapunzel ("Zel") and Jack and the Beanstalk ("Crazy Jack")... all three are great.

Other fairy tales Napoli's done are Rumpelstiltskin ("Spinners"), Hansel and Gretel ("The Magic Circle"), Beauty and the Beast ("Beast"), The Pied Piper ("Breath"), and lots of other folk tales, like the Greek god Pan.
Tumnus1031

Okay, this good...keep talking.

I've been looking for some good fairy-tale based literature to read for pleasure ever since I realized I haven't read an entire book for pleasure since last October. =[

Baker, which ones out of those would you reccomend specifically?

And if anyone's read "Mirror, Mirror" and "Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister" by Gregory Maguire (the author of "Wicked"), then I would be most grateful if you told me your opinions on them. I saw them at a bookstore, finally realizing that he wrote other books besides "Wicked," and I was eager to buy them. But I remembered that I had stopped a little less than halfway through "Wicked" simply because it bored me and dragged on and on with no point to it. So, I didn't pick it up, remember how his most acclaimed work had disappointed me (I still love the musical, though). Are they worth it?
ConverseSneaker

Yeah, I'm not Baker, but I'll put in my two cents anyways.

I loved Confessions dearly. I've had it for two years now and it's still on my Favorite Books shelf of my bookcase. Mirror Mirror, I really had to drag myself through.

Other Faerie Tale Fiction:

Dragon's Keep-an orginal story about a cursed and disfigured or disfingered princess.
Briar Rose by Jane Yolen-a more modern take on the old tale.

And there's this list I found, I can't be held responsible if the books suck though.

http://endicottstudio.typepad.com/jomareadinglists/
Tumnus1031

...Oh...my...God! Thank you!

I've literally spent that last hour looking through that list. Amazing. I've already made a list for the next time I go to Books-A-Million:

Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister - Gregory Maguire
White as Snow - Tanith Lee
Beauty: A Retelling of the Story of Beauty and the Beast - Robin McKinley
The True Story of Hansel and Gretel - Louise Murphy
Briar Rose - Jane Yolen

And these aren't retellings, but are good for interpreting fairy tales...
The Hard Facts of the Grimms' Fairy Tales - Maria Tatar
The Uses of Enchantment - Bruno Bettelheim (used this for a paper and loved it--I'm getting it so I can have a copy of my own and read the whole thing)
Baker

I love "Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister." It's a brilliant book. I can't get halfway through "Mirror Mirror" though, even though I love Snow White more. Maguire's version just bores me. If it helps, I've often heard that people who are bored by the "Wicked" book tend to really like "Stepsister."

From Napoli, I would pick your favorites of the tales she rewritten and read those. She has a very different and very distinct style that I really like. If I had to pick my top three (keep in mind that it's been a while since I've read any of these), it'd be "Bound," "Spinners," and "The Magic Circle." I really love them all though.

Bouncing off some of the others listed...
I've never read Tanith Lee's "White as Snow" but I really, really want to. I just haven't gotten around to it. Robin McKinley has retold Beauty and the Beast twice and Sleeping Beauty once, but I can't ever get into them. Beauty and the Beast is so boring when told from Beauty's point of view, in my opinion, so there are very few versions of that one that I like (the only one I really do, actually, is told from the Beast's point of view and most of the book is about the Beast's past). I'm dying to read The True Story of Hansel and Gretel, it sounds brilliant, and I've always had a similar idea for setting Cinderella in World War II Austria. I've read a bit of Briar Rose, and it's all right.
Tumnus1031

Thanks. Very Happy Now I'm really excited about 'Confessions.' I was thinking about Mirror, Mirror, but after reading other reviews I believe the general consensus is that it takes too long to get off its feet.

"Zel" looks like a definitely Napoli candidate. Ever since I found ItW, I've become obssessed with Rapunzel for some reason or another. "Breath" looks good too, even though I've never really gotten into the Pied Piper. "Bound," I'll definitely look at it--you obviously like it a lot. "Spindle's End" by McKinley looks a lot more promising than "Beauty."

Also--has anyone here read any sort of retelling of "Little Red Riding Hood?" As far as I've seen it's one of the THE most popular fairy tales to rewrite, but I haven't been able to find one so far. If someone could point me in the write direction, I would be most grateful. Smile
Baker

Tumnus1031 wrote:
Also--has anyone here read any sort of retelling of "Little Red Riding Hood?" As far as I've seen it's one of the THE most popular fairy tales to rewrite, but I haven't been able to find one so far. If someone could point me in the write direction, I would be most grateful. Smile


Hardly. It's probably one of the most major fairy tales that gets the least rewritings. It's not usually handled well, since the story takes place in such a small amount of time, but the best I've seen is "Scarlet Moon," which completely reinvents it but keeps all of the basic elements (red cloak, wolf, grandmother, etc.) I forget the author, but it's part of the Happily Ever After Series, which is great fun.
Tumnus1031

Well, I went to Books-A-Million today, and the only book on my list that they had was 'Confessions,' which I already knew was there. >Sad

*Hates his Books-a-Million*

So I'll just order my books online. And the plus side...LOVING 'Confessions.' Brilliant book. Much easier to get into and understand than Wicked.
lastmidnight.alex

Your right about the sexual education thing in the original story but in both the original and Into the Woods musical Rapunzel didn't give birth to the twins until after the Witch abandoned her in the desert.

Also Rapunzel and the Prince actually eloped because they didn't get the Witch's blessing and also because no one really knew who they were either. Besides Cinderella's wedding had to be shown because in the original story that's when the Stepsisters are blinded by birds; where as in the original story of Rapunzel it doesn't go on to show or mention their wedding.

I mean I always saw Rapunzel and her Prince to be more hidden characters. After all the Baker's Wife fell in love with Cinderella's Prince and not Rapunzel's Prince because she never saw him. Rapunzel went crazy after the Prince took away from her tower because she didn't know how to survive in the world. Just like the Witch says hin her Lament:
"Now you know what's out there in the world. No one can prepare you for the world."

I am liking the whole "Hansel and Gretel" theory though ^ ^.
ConverseSneaker

lastmidnight.alex wrote:
Your right about the sexual education thing in the original story but in both the original and Into the Woods musical Rapunzel didn't give birth to the twins until after the Witch abandoned her in the desert


But we know that Rapunzel and her Prince were doing it before she was banished to the desert or the kids aren't his.
Baker

lastmidnight.alex wrote:
Also Rapunzel and the Prince actually eloped because they didn't get the Witch's blessing and also because no one really knew who they were either. Besides Cinderella's wedding had to be shown because in the original story that's when the Stepsisters are blinded by birds; where as in the original story of Rapunzel it doesn't go on to show or mention their wedding.


I'm pretty sure they would have had a formal, public wedding. The Princes are both very presentational people, not the sort to elope at all. True, the original story doesn't mention it, but we know for certain Rapunzel and her Prince are actually married. And yes, Cinderella's would be shown because it has slight relevance to the story. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "no one really knew who they were" because I'm positive the whole kingdom and then some would know who the Prince was - and in the end, usually people don't argue about who a Prince may marry, so whether Rapunzel is known or not is irrelevant. He may marry a cinder-covered servant, a witch's adopted daughter, a true princess, a girl who appears to be dead, a peasant girl who vomits jewels, a girl with strange talents, it really doesn't matter so long as she's pretty enough.

lastmidnight.alex wrote:
I mean I always saw Rapunzel and her Prince to be more hidden characters. After all the Baker's Wife fell in love with Cinderella's Prince and not Rapunzel's Prince because she never saw him. Rapunzel went crazy after the Prince took away from her tower because she didn't know how to survive in the world. Just like the Witch says hin her Lament:
"Now you know what's out there in the world. No one can prepare you for the world."


A few points here. It's important to note that the Baker's Wife is not actually in love with Cinderella's Prince... it was just a "moment." Second of all, she did see Rapunzel's Prince, during the first Agony. Thirdly, I like that you brought up that Rapunzel went insane because she didn't know how to handle the real world. That's an important point that I don't think we had brought up yet.
ConverseSneaker

Baker wrote:
a peasant girl who vomits jewels, it really doesn't matter so long as she's pretty enough.


That's an awesome story, by the way.

Baker wrote:
, I like that you brought up that Rapunzel went insane because she didn't know how to handle the real world. That's an important point that I don't think we had brought up yet.


That is a really nice point. Good job, lastmidnight.alex![/quote]
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