[Matthew]

Can someone explain this to me?

[Moongewl]

Because Gus at least has happy memories and a caretaker(Jellylorum). Grizabella has absolutely nothing to live for.

[ConverseSneaker]

Because the test was rigged

No, it's what Moongewl said.

[Matthew]

[mastachen]

[Rumblepurr]

A good possibility arises that Grizabella had her memories and happy moments, but she threw them away when she left the Tribe to pursue fame elsewhere. Memories are all she has at the moment she attempts to return, and become accepted once more (it is inferred by the action that she is "shunned"). Gus the Theatre Cat, on the other hand, is still accepted by the Tribe. His memories are just dimmed (or even disorientated) by time.

The concept of "The Moments of Happiness" seem to indicate that Old Deuteronomy is looking for someone who truly understands what happiness is. Between Gus and Griz, Gus still has the respect of the Tribe and the fondness of his memories (in "Growltiger," he is honored by Ghengis). Grizabella lost everything, but she still remembers when she was happy - truly happy. Because Grizabella understood what happiness meant to her, and that she was determined to find it one last time, she "won" the Choice.

Rumblepurr
The Writer Cat.

[Matthew]

But Gus is gonna die soon...
And people liked him.

No one liked Grizabella and she could keep on living.
It seems like she just came to get everyone to pity her so she could win.

I think it's totes messed up.

[Pounce]

Yeah, but when Griz sings "Memory", it wins over the tribe so it's sort of a unanimous choice. I think Old Deut was favoring Griz and when tribe feels the same way, it seals the deal.

[Matthew]

Poor Gus. He probably died the next day, Griz came back and did the same thing, and all the cats felt bad.

[Moongewl]

[Belle]

I've seen Grizabella played as old and frail as Gus... Chrissie Hammond's Griz suggested she was right at the very end of her life.

[Rumblepurr]

[MunkuSwarley]

Maybe Gus gets chosen next year

[Tovers]

[ConverseSneaker]

To be honest, I always thought that Memory was about how Griz had never appreciated her happy days and how much it would mean to her to have them back now.

So Gus, had at least known and has happiness and comfort, Griz had underestimated it and now understood the true value of it from her memories.

[Matthew]

[Moongewl]

Wait...why are you so mad at Griz for getting the honor? Gus isn't even as old as Old Deuteronomy, so I doubt he dies the next day.

[Matthew]

Because I don't believe the Prodigal Son deserved any praise.

And Deuteronomy doesn't have feline palsy!

[Moongewl]

You don't think Griz deserved a second chance, then? I think she did. Gus is respected. He'll be cared for until he is chosen to move on, which would probably be the next year. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but in the stage version--where Gus is onstage throughout most of the show and is a lot less feeble-looking--he honors her along with the rest of the tribe and doesn't hold a grudge for not getting chosen.

[Rumblepurr]

I do not think that the "Gus" we see throughout the stage version is "Gus the Theatre Cat". The actor portraying "Asparagus" has other roles such as Bustopher Jones, Gus the Theatre Cat and Growltiger. The Asparagus we see is pretty much a chorus cat until he becomes the other roles... When the Tribe touches Grizabella at the last, Asparagus is there - not BJ, Gus or Growltiger...

Because the same actor plays all four parts, I believe the "Gus" we see the actor portray in the Second Act is another "legend" much like the Gumbie Cat. You will notice that Jennyanydots does not remain as the Gumbie Cat after her number. Perhaps, she could be portraying the character as a tribute to someone who was the real one. Likewise, the "Gus" we see might not even exist at the time of the musical. Asparagus could be honoring his "father" or "Uncle" who was the original "Gus". Perhaps, Gus the Theatre Cat could have been the "previous" Choice...

Respectfully submitted,
Rumblepurr
The Writer Cat.

[Matthew]

[Moongewl]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, Rumblepurr. I've always gotten the impression that Gus IS Asparagus in the same way that Jennyanydots takes off her enormous fuzzy outfit and remains Jennyanydots, the matronly Gumbie Cat who looks after the younglings. Changing the outfit but not the personality--like Mistoffolees, or Rumpelteazer, or Skimbleshanks--suggests that there's only one character being portrayed. Asparagus the "chorus cat" appears to be as old as Gus the Theatre Cat, and has the same mannerisms, and talks the same way, and Asparagus is Gus' full name. Nothing, to me, suggests that they are separate characters.
As for the Gumbie Cat and the Theatre Cat being "legends," that just doesn't make sense to me. Jennyanydots is the Gumbie Cat, but Gumbie Cat seems to be more of a job title than a name given to a legendary cat--the use of the indefinite article in the song(e.g "I have a Gumbie Cat in mind" and "and that's what makes a Gumbie Cat") suggests that there's not just ONE Gumbie Cat all throughout history, and instead the Gumbie Cat is a role filled by a matronly cat. She is only THE Gumbie Cat because there is no other within the tribe. And I've already gone into ridiculous detail on how Gus is definitely Asparagus in my eyes.

[Belle]

I think that possibly we're looking too hard into the fiction of the story, and away from the practicalities of staging a musical. It would not be practical to have cast members purely for their feature songs and sitting backstage for the rest of the show, so they play ensemble roles as well. Chorus Gus never gets a spotlight, I'm quite sure he's just another Cat when he's not playing Gus, the Theatre Cat.

If Gus and Jenny are acting out the "famous" characters, then they're not competing for the place in the Heaviside layer - so why are they pretending to be these people? Makes less sense than giving the productions theatrical license that we just won't notice that this is the same actor.

[Matthew]

[Tovers]

[Rumblepurr]

Well... In some ways, I could argue that every character who "auditions" for the Choice is "acting" or pretending to be something they are not. Tugger adds to his costume by donning on the vest and the pompadour wig. Misto changes from being a full tuxedo cat to a black shiny one. Skimble puts on his vest and watch chain. Jenny changes the picture a tad by starting out in her Gumbie Cat costume and changes to a glitter image and finally to being a Jellicle Matron... And finally, Mungojerrie and Rumpelteazer change into a new set of stripes and then take them off after their number. Why do this at all? Why do they change their costume (and this includes Grizabella) to become the character in the song?

As to the Asparagus question, like BJ, Gus is one of the characters who comes on, does their number and departs, not really expecting to be part of the Choice. BJ is frightened off during one of the Macavity Scares, and Gus merely shambles away. I will concede that Asparagus does not become Gus, and so we actually see the Old Codger with Jellylorum. The Asparagus character we see as the Chorus Cat has more vitality than Gus has. Gus is old and feeble, barely able to walk and sit. Asparagus is all over the stage and even spots the scoffing man that does not believe in Jellicle Cats... As to the same name...? Perhaps Asparagus is the next "Gus" (or as I put it - Gus Junior).

As a fanfiction writer, I am aware that every one of us can interpret what we see and put our own individual spin to it. Not everyone agrees with me, and I certainly do not agree with everyone else. A few of us make some leeway on this or that concept, but not all of will ever agree on everything.

Thank you for "listening" to my theories...
Rumblepurr
The Writer Cat.

[Pounce]

[Matthew]

[Moongewl]

Oookay.
1. Rumblepurr, you mentioned another point on which I disagree--though I'm fairly sure I'm in the minority on this one. I think of characters such as Mungojerrie and Rumpelteazer, the Rum Tum Tugger, Mistoffelees and Skimbleshanks as having their own songs for reasons other than "auditions." Mainly, M&R are there to make mischief, while Tugger shows up to crash the party(even though he's invited), Misto's showing off, and Skimble's just inviting the others to have fun and play. None of them seem anywhere near ready to leave THIS life behind. The Jellicle Ball isn't just a meeting of a selection committee, it's a reunion of close friends and family. As for your actual argument, it makes just as much sense to me that they would simply take extra pains with their appearances when they're making their individual cases for being the chosen one. I won't debate on the Asparagus/Gus thing anymore because it seems we're not getting anywhere.
2. Belle, you make some good points. However, I feel that if the characters that are "Chorus Jenny" and "Chorus Gus" are really supposed to be separate, that would be more obvious--i.e. "Chorus Jenny" would have a different personality from "Gumbie Cat Jenny" or "Chorus Gus" would wear a costume that didn't resemble "Gus the Theatre Cat" and not act like such an elderly cat. Perhaps it started out with the intent of filling out the ensemble(like the Misto/Quaxo thing), but I think it's evolved to the point where the ensemble characters they play are supposed to be the same as the feature song characters. Admittedly, my argument for Jenny is a bit shaky, but I think Chorus Jenny remains rhe same age and has the same personality as Gumbie Cat Jenny.
3. Tovers, you're weird and that's cool.
4. Matthew...either you have a ridiculously bad case of Character Derangement Syndrome, or (as Pounce said) you're trying to get a rise out of us.

[Flitterbug]

[darkmage]

I agree with Moongewl. One of the best descriptions I ever read of Cats was in the paper last time it came here. It was, "Once a year the Jellicle tribe of cats gets together to celebrate who they are." I couldn't have said it better.

[Matthew]

[Moongewl]

[Matthew]

I think I've made it quite clear in my past posts that the others just deserve it more.

Maybe you just have character attatchment syndrome.

[Moongewl]

[Rumblepurr]

This thread is beginning to degrade, and the debate is turning into an argument... Locking...