Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| GE |
Unluckiest Tony Award loserI am just sitting watching The Music Man (1962 film version) again, and to be honest, I never really got enthused by this musical. There are some obviously famous, and justly so, songs... but this won the Tony Award for Best Musical in 1958 in front of West Side Story.I've never seen The Music Man on stage, but have seen West Side Story at least twice... And to be honest, I just don't get it. I'm sure Robert Preston was fine... and I'm a massive fan of Shirley Jones in Oklahoma and Carousel... but it hardly makes up for most of the disjointed, ugly songs and lyrics in the rest of the show. And West Side Story is perhaps one of the pinnacles of shows in history... When I look through the list of nominated shows which failed to win the Tony Award, West Side Story certainly stands out in the 1950s... and indeed, it would have beaten most shows in most years since. So I got interested... what were the other unlucky losers? Gypsy losing out to Fiorello (which tied with Sound of Music) in 1960... Oliver! losing out to A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum in 1963 (though I liked the latter)... Grease losing out in 1972... Chicago losing out to A Chorus Line in 1976... (as good as the latter was) What was the greatest unlucky loser? |
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| Salome |
Fiorello is a MUCH better show than Spound of music. the tie should have been between Fiorello and Gypsy.
Music Man holds up alot better than West Side Story today. however.. INTO THE WOODS should have won over Phantom SITPWG should have won over La Cage Grand Hotel should have won over City of Angels. Grey Gardens over Spring Awakening. those were all major injustices. |
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| TJaames |
Mary Poppins should have won over Spring Awakening in Choreography.
Spring Awakening hardly has any. |
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| mastachen |
^Have you seen the show? 
Just because Mary Poppins has more dance numbers doesn't mean it should've won. To be honest, Spring Awakening looked a lot harder to choreograph. |
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| wicked_boy |
Mary could have won solely on the special effects and the amazing costume / set designs. | ||||||
| Salome |
what does that have to do with the choreography? |
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| wicked_boy |
Nothing, I was just saying. | ||||||
| Salome |
the question was which show deserved best choreography and you talked baout sets and costumes. | ||||||
| wicked_boy |
Oh. My bad. | ||||||
| musikal_geek |
Re: Unluckiest Tony Award loser
That's not a loss. |
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| SuperKabob |
Fosse over Parade
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| pish123c |
Really? I'm amazed that a dance show won over what many consider a great piece of theatre. I mean, you know my love for Fosse...But wow. |
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| SuperKabob |
http://www.broadwayworld.com/tonyawardsyear.cfm?year=1999
And they lost on both of the Best Actors as well. 
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| GE |
Re: Unluckiest Tony Award loser
Come on... it is a huge amount of fun, with a lot of memorable and famous songs... it will go down in history with more people knowing what we are talking about in 50 years than any other show that year. |
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| GE |
The Music Man holds up better than West Side Story? Sorry... that is sort of crazy. Music Man is a traditional 50s style show... actually... probably more 30s or 40s style show. It won due to the grannies loving the band music. West Side Story was ground breaking and the music is heart breaking and pulsating. The choreography was cutting edge. The Music Man was very old fashioned stuff. I don't disagree on Sound of Music. While I grew up with it, and I love it still for that reason, it is very sugary and was never the best of RandH. |
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| Salome |
Have you seen West Side Story?? not the film but a stage version? its rickety..the script to song blending is really poor. even Sondheim admits the lyrics are not good in many of the songs.
character development is almost nil. to paraphrase Oscar Wilde..whatever istoo modren may quickley become old fashioned. WSS has not held up well. Music man is tight. its charcters belend well its songs work well. the lyrics are dmaned good. |
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| musikal_geek |
Re: Unluckiest Tony Award loser
Yeah, it's loads of fun. Really. I flew to New York just to see it. The songs are memorable, too. But it's got no substance to it. Just fluff. |
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| pish123c |
THANK GOD someone else knows how I feel about WSS. |
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| Pannic |
WSS holds up today solely because of Leonard Bernstein. Nobody ever cared about the book.
And Romeo and Juliet isn't even that good of a play, anyways. Though I do strongly feel that the lyrics for "Gee, Officer Krupke" are as good as just about anything else that Sondheim has written. |
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| Not Dead Yet |
[quote="GE"]
The Music Man holds up better than West Side Story? Sorry... that is sort of crazy. Music Man is a traditional 50s style show... actually... probably more 30s or 40s style show. It won due to the grannies loving the band music. [quote] Even older. Early 19teens, if I'm not mistaken. Even when I knew relatively nothing about musical theatre, I liked Music Man way more than West Side Story.... Now I can back up why, for many reasons stated above. |
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| SuperKabob |
Are you talking plotwise or writing-wise? Because if its the latter I may have to punch you. |
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| GE |
Yes, I've seen West Side Story twice on stage, plus many times on film, of course. I know what Sondheim says about it, but frankly, I think it is better than some of his later work. Music Man's characters are mostly annoying, as are the songs - many disjointed and dischordant. |
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| star2ballie |
Agreed! It's a wonderful show. |
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| Salome |
which songsin music Man? because i find bernstiens music in WSS vstoy disjointed ...esp. Cool, One Hand One Heart, Jet Song and A Boy like That/I Havec Love. and song placementyt is atrocious! cool comes out of nowhere..America is totally lame in its context with Rosalita (sondheim and Widsse fixed the problem in the film). and WSS is much weaker than any of Sondheim's later works except Passion and Bounce. |
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| Salome |
uhmmm yews people cared about the book andl yrics too or it would just be a music concert. bernstein's music is one of the reasons it hasnt held up well. |
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| Pannic |
As for Bernstein, I meant that it might be about his name more than the actual quality of the music. As for the book, I meant that nobody ever cared about the particular book for West Side Story. Whenever people talk about it, it's usually either about the dancing, Bernstein's name on it, or mentioning that Sondheim did the lyrics. |
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| SuperKabob |
Very true. (I've had a few heated arguments about the actual writing, so I get a little touchy about the play.) |
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| GE |
Just have a listen to most of the Music Man songs. Apart from the "famous" ones, most are disjointed. Sondheim... everyone goes on and on about him... but much of it does nothing for me. West Side Story is wonderful. The music is wonderful. The lyrics are some of the most memorable in musical history. "America" is one of the highlights of musical history and you guys are whinging about it!? I think every song is just about perfect and moving. |
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| GE |
The music is one of the reasons it "hasn't held up well"? This music will go down in history long after we are all dead. It is exhilarating, moving, exciting... We are sitting here decades later talking about it... It is a land mark. It will live long after many of the "literati musicals" that seem to be so approved of by some round here... |
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| Salome |
the pont is SOndheim's WSS lyrics arent that good. and Bernstiens' music however brilliant, fits more into an orchestral piece than it does into a play.
Music Man..all the songs are fmaous in tha tshow. name me one someone doesnt know? its like my Fair Lady or Oklahoma..every song is famous. |
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| Jekkienumber24601 |
Re: Unluckiest Tony Award loser
You're quoting shows, but let's not forget people....namely Raul Esparza losing to David Hyde Pierce! |
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| Salome |
Pierce deserved it. Esparza was wonderful but Dean Jones is irreplaceable as Bobby. | ||||||
| Salome |
but John Cullum losing to that kid in SA last year was a crime.
as was George S. Irving in me and My Girl losing to Mike McGuire from Les miz. |
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| Quique |
Ragtime should have won over the kitschy Lion King!!!
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| mastachen |
Um, well maybe Best Featured Actor awards actors based solely on sex appeal. More people would rather do Mike McGuire in 1986 than Irving. I'm pretty sure the same can be say for John Gallagher Jr and John Cullum. |
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| Don't Tell Mama |
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| Salome |
uhm John Cullum as a young man was 10 times as handsome as that Gallagher kid. Have you SEEN him as laertes in Hamlet or Dr. Mark in On a Clear Day? |
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| mastachen |
No on both counts, but I did dig up some old pictures last night, and I do agree that John Cullum was quite the fox a long time ago. Alas, people do grow old. |
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| Salome |
peole grow old but still Cullum is one of the only legends still workjing on broadway. i'll pay to see that man read a lunch menu! | ||||||
| LesWickedPhantom |
Re: Unluckiest Tony Award loser
I agree. That damn near killed me when I saw it. I think I stopped breathing for a second. |
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| pish123c |
Spring Awakening winning pretty much everything this past year was a huge let-down. It got to the point that I didn't even have to wonder who was going to win because it was always one of the damn Spring kids or crappy choreography. | ||||||
| EsparzaForPresident |
Raul Esparza last year, hands down. His performance gave me chills. And as good as the winner is... It's not 'Being Alive' good... | ||||||
| Sweeney Hyde |
^Have you seen Pierce in Curtains?
Moreover, did you see Esparza in Company? ...live...not just the tony awards performance? |
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| Don't Tell Mama |
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| Salome |
Esparza was a great Bobby but not near as good as Dean Jones | ||||||
| Dots Parasole |
What a ridiculous statement. It is a known fact that dance, music and lyrics take center stage with most musicals but there are a ton of people who care about the book for the WSS. Mainly Arthur Laurents who, at 90, is updating it as we speak for next years revival.
Citing this song just proves Salome's point. While the lyrics are brilliant they are almost completely disingenuous to the characters that are singing them. As for biggest Tony mistakes. They would be: Follies winning every Tony but Best Musical Sunday in the Park With George losing to the horrid La Cage Phantom beating Into the Woods (although the score win for ITW felt really good). |