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| Roger's Chica |
Tip Pooling is NOT Theft!So, Starbucks has made a website called "My Starbucks Idea" for customers to share their thoughts. It fills me with rage.I just want share this link: http://finance.comcast.net/www/news.html?x=http://absorigins.comcast.net/data/news/2008/03/20/917069.xml I want, at least, the people on this board, to understand what my job is as a shift supervisor. I am the barista who is making your (very excellent) drinks. I am the girl cheerily taking your order. I am the person cleaning the floors or filling the pastry case or emptying the trash. Except that I spend some time off the floor doing cash handling - an hour for the deposit in the morning, half an hour for counting down the tills at the end of the night. And I make sure people get their breaks and I lock the door at the end of the night. If you came into my store, you would have NO idea that I am any different than the people I am working with. So, why should I not share in the tip pooling? Also, PS: tips are pooled because it is fair. We all set each other up for success, we all work to make that excellent drink even if only one person is physically making it. That is why we pool tips. I am so angry. And I am also so NOT management. |
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| PappyCat |
I disagree with you, in a lot of ways. I agree with you in some. It's late, so I'm not going to type all my reasoning out though.
However, I do think tipping is stupid. Why should I pay someone extra for a service they are already getting paid for? They need to raise the wages of these workers. And yes, I have worked in food service. For five years. And yes, I do tip (generously) when I eat/have gas pumped/get my hair cut/sleep in a hotel. |
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| mastachen |
Here's what my friend does when he's at a restaurant and he's paying in cash: He'll lay out a certain amount of one dollar bills that he's planning on tipping. For every mistake or issue that he has with the waiter, he takes away a dollar, and at the end of the day, whatever's left is the tip. | ||||
| Quique |
There is a huge difference between getting the job done and providing quality service. I want the latter, and don't mind showing my appreciation when it's delivered. Especially considering those jobs can become quite grueling and demanding. | ||||
| Nudelkopf |
1. Tipping is weird - why give away extra $$ when you don't have to?
2. Tipping is pointless - the staff are getting paid anyway 3. I don't know how to tip, I've never done it 4. If you tip in Australia, you're a bloody loony 5. Actually, if you tip in Australia - you'd probably get your money back as 'change'.
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| Robinflamingo |
Dear Nudel, I know that tipping is a cultural thing, but here's how it works in the US: In Michigan, for instance, minimum wage is over $7.00/hr. Waitstaff make $2.50 - $3.00/hr. and are required to claim so much per hour on income tax to meet minimum wage. So if they do not give good service, they are basically paying the government to work. That covers #1 and #2. #3: The current acceptable tip is approximately 20% of the meal total, although not everyone pays that. |
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| wicked_boy |
Roger's Chica, I'd love to come to your Starbucks. I love Starbucks and the people who work at mine are absolutely lovely.
My regular is a Chocolate Frappo with a brownie. We don't have a tip jar there though. |
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| Clarabelle |
We have a compulsory minimum wage and employers are not allowed to make people work for less than that, so it's a little different. However. I do not think tip sharing is theft (even though it has meant I got less tips than I otherwise would have done) and here is why.
If you work front of house in a restaurant (as I did) you are entirely relying on the job you do to rake in tips. Our FOH staff would be allocated areas, and different tasks- so if you were the wine waiter you would get NO tips without tip sharing, and if you were doing coffees then you'd get all the tips because you'd always be the one sorting out the bills for people. We had basic areas to look at but we'd help each other out as it was a quality restaurant and it wasn't done to leave people with empty plates in front of them. So without those constraints (you do your own tables and get those tips) then everyone worked together a lot better as it was in your interest for ALL the tables to get good service, not just your own. Personally I don't tip in coffeehouses etc. Not unless the service has been above and beyond... |
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| Flitterbug |
I used to work in hospitality. I got 21$ an hour to serve drinks and clean stuff as a casual. The industry wage at the time was something like 18.50 per hour for permanent staff.
Waiters get an industry wage of between 14-16 an hour at most establishments. Your government needs to institute proper minimum wages that are not allowed to change, no matter what the job or who the employer is. Eliminate the need for tipping, and a lot of people will be a lot happier. Service will not decline, since you can still get fired for doing a crappy job. |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
Don\'t Starbucks baristas get paid minimum wage, though? | ||||
| Roger's Chica |
I should clarify:
I'm not saying anyone HAS to tip. I do not serve anyone differently or judge them based on whether or not they tip. I definitely think the tip is for offering an experience beyond simply "making a coffee"... which I can't always offer. But the issue is that: if someone DOES tip, I see no reason why it shouldn't be split with the baristas and the shift supervisors - shifts are not managers. We can not fire or hire, we can not do scheduling (we can't even approve switched shifts), we can not process payroll, etc. This is the issue being debated in the article and I do not agree with the ruling. We are not debating whether or not one should tip but how to divide the tips that already exist. Also: generally said, Starbucks baristas make within $.25 of minimum wage. However, they do not rely on tips the same way that waitstaff does. At my store, tips generally even out to approx. $1/hour. At my brother's store, he probably gets $.50/hour. |
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| NoOneMournsTheWicked |
When I'm at a restaurant, I just double tax for the tip. Sometimes more if the waiter did a good job. And I always round up.
For the hair salon, it's $5 for the guy that did my hair and between $2-3 for the person that washed it, depending on my change/if they gave me a head massage. Nail salon, it's $2 when I get a wax (which is $5), $5 if it's nails and wax or $3 if it's just nails. I personally feel that retail workers should get tips. I don't even get comission and I get paid crap. I carry your stuff to your fitting room, run in and out of the stock room for you, ring up your purchases, let you into the fitting room 1234095320943204923 times when you lock yourself out, fix all the piles you mess up. I deserve a little extra money. |
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| shadowdancer |
so before he even knows the bill total, he puts the waiter's possible tip on the table and therefore the waiter can see him taking the money away. Even if the waiter can't see it, your friend sounds like a schmuck! |
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| Set_Buildin_Dad |
Erin, I think I understand your situation. Let me try to sum it up and see if I'm right.
1. You work extra hard, are extra responsible and do a good job. 2. You get a promotion with probably a small raise. 3. You have much more responsibility now, and have to work even harder. 4. You still do everything else that every other employee does including customer service. 5. All tips are put into a community pool and shared instead of being kept by the individual receiving the tip directly. 6. Because you are now a shift supervisor you don't get to share in the tip income. Result: you make less now than you did before. Do I understand the situation correctly? If so that is unfair and it sucks. I wouldn't run my business that way. |
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| Roger's Chica |
Now, I currently recieve tips, but the trickle down from this court ruling might affect that in the future. There are customers who are threatening to boycott Starbucks if the company tries to appeal this ruling because the company is "stealing from their employees".
And I completely agree with tip pooling. It is busier in the morning so they recieve more tips, but they can only work successfully and recieve these tips if we do proper prep the night before so it's all related. |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
I don\'t get why anybody working at Starbucks would feel \"entitled\" to receiving tips since everyone\'s getting paid above minimum wage. | ||||
| Quique |
I think it's just an unfortunate situation for Sbux shift supervisor employees. I'm not saying it's fair, but remember it is illegal for managers and supervisors to share in the tipping pool in CA--something I agree with for most jobs. The tipping should go to those with the lowest wages. I agree that you deserve to share in the tipping pool considering your job description isn't very different from those who are legally allowed to. But maybe Sbux needs to give their supervisors a raise, so that the tips can go to the regular employees. I don't know, I see your point, but a law is a law and Sbux acted illegally. | ||||
| Beagle On Stage |
I say it's not theft because everyone knows what's going to happen going into it. If you were grabbing money out of people's personal tip jars, that would be theft. But if everyone knows the business's policy is to share the tips, they can either agree with it or quit and work somewhere else that doesn't share them.
That said, as a consumer I'm uncomfortable with tip pooling. If I'm in a restaurant and my waitress is attentive, helpful, friendly, and maybe showing some cleavage, what the hell, I'm going to tip well because she made eating in that restaurant a great experience. I don't like the idea of everyone sharing whatever I left her. They may be working just as hard, but they didn't do anything for me. (And from the other side, I'm sure she's pissed that she tried hard and got a nice tip, but she has to split it with everyone even if they never even saw me at my table.) I see your logic about how they CAN'T work hard and earn the tip if you don't do your job, and that's valid. But as someone who has worked in retail, so I feel like I'm able to talk, I think you may be SOL for the reason I just described. It's not that your job isn't just as hard and just as valuable...it's that it takes the power away from the customer. The point of tipping is rewarding a certain person for a job well done. I get that raped, violated feeling at the thought of tipping someone, but it doesn't just go to them and neither them nor I can do anything about it. So it goes both ways. I don't know that there's a clean-cut answer. Here's what I think of tips in general, though. Tips are extra, not wage. So if you're making $8.00 an hour, I think you're making $8.00 an hour. If someone leaves you two more dollars for doing a great job, you made $10.00 that hour. As with anything, when the government gets involved with your money, it starts to become so complicated. You can bet that when the first tip was left in the first restaurant, the employees weren't bound by government regulations of how to handle it. The person who did good, did good. |
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| Quique |
Pretty much agree with most of what Beagle said. Though I don't mind tip pooling when it comes to places like Sbux. I have yet to have a bad experience there with any of the employees. Other places I'd be more wary of as quality of service varies from employee to employee. Waiters are a good example.
For the record, I think it's stupid that they call it theft as well. But I'm kinda torn about the court decision. There was a violation of the law which can't be denied. Sbux should give their supervisors a raise for the added responsibility and not rely on tips which should be going to others (under the law). |
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| Beagle On Stage |
I feel the same way. CERTAINLY supervisors should be getting paid more - their jobs have more responsibility and take more effort. It's just that it should come from the employer, not the tips the customers intended for other employees. |
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| Orestes Fasting |
We're not talking about whether anyone's "entitled" to receieve tips. We're talking about whether shift supervisors are entitled to share in the tips the whole store has already received. |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
Well, thats what Im talking about. | ||||
| Orestes Fasting |
So if nobody working at Starbucks is entitled to receive tips, what should they do with the contents of the tip jar at the end of the day? Toss it in the trash? Donate it to starving children in Africa?
If they're going to divide up the tips, they might as well do so equitably, and I don't see why the shift supervisors have any less right to the tips than the other baristas. |
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| Nudelkopf |
Erin, if I were only getting paid the minimum wage I'd get a new job Goodluck with it though, I hope for your sake that this tipping business turns out okay! |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
I think they shouldn\'t have a tip jar or receive tips in the first place. When I worked in foods service (for $7.65/hour), we weren\'t allowed to accept tips. At my present job as a receptionist, I get paid $8 an hour - which is I believe 40 cents above minimum wage. I don\'t see why a barista who\'s basically getting paid the same wage as myself should be getting tipped when they\'re really not doing any more work than myself. | ||||
| lakmé |
I am a former barista, and I think it's bollocks that they're saying shifts can't share tips. Shifts DO get paid more, but it's generally not enough to make up for the amount of work that they do compared to the other baristas on the floor.
And as to baristas not deserving to get tips, whatever. Almost every coffeehouse I've ever been in has had a tip jar. If the employer sees fit to allow customers to tip and their employees to split those tips, who are you to say they don't deserve it? Being a good barista actually requires skill--it took about three months for the average new employee at my store to be completely comfortable barring alone. Sbux pay is about average for the type of work, and the benefits (insurance, stock, tuition assistance) are KILLER. It's really not a bad gig. And to say that shift supervisors should be exempt from the tip pool is to completely misunderstand their function and how they are paid. Salaried employees are exempt. No one else should be. And Erin, you should come work at my old store. Tips averaged $2/hr. |
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| Roger's Chica |
Here's the grey area. A Starbucks shift supervisor only meets ONE of the seven critera used to describe a supervisor/manager under CA law. Thus the possibility of this NOT being illegal. AKA: not valid decision. And also, at Starbucks, you are throwing a tip into a tip jar. You KNOW it is not going to the cute barista who made your hot chocolate. That is what customer written love poems are for. That is how you express your pleasure. |
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| Kragey |
I follow preset rules, which drive my friends crazy because they see it as a "waste of money": tip generously if the staff was at least good, tip the average if they did their job, and tip a bit below if they were poor. | ||||
| musicaltheatrefan |
That's a smart idea. I think I'll try that sometime. |
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| star2ballie |
At Coldstone, we get tipped often just because that's sort of what you do (for those of you who don't know, if someone tips, everyone who is working on the stone sings...it's just part of the experience).
I love this, and we get quite a bit of cash by the end of a shift. HOWEVER. My manager always splits it evenly with us and I find it ridiculous. I could be wrong, but from what I see he: doesn't do the physical work we do (serving, ringing out, stocking, cleaning, inventory-ing), sits on the computer in the back on myspace, or occasionally disappears downstairs for 3 hours with no explanation. I know managers have to do scheduling, etc., but I feel like we're getting tipped for the service, and he isn't. He shouldn't share in my tips. I know this isn't like your situation, Erin, I just wanted to vent. Haha. |
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| Matthew |
Restaurants I give 20%.
At Coldstone or Jamba, I only give a tip if they promise to not do anything. PS. Allie go on AIM. |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
15% is the standard tip in my state. I give more if they did a great job. I generally won\'t give less than 15% though, regardless of the service (unless they\'re complete douchebags).
I think mataschen\'s friend\'s way of tipping is sort of douchey. And it doesn\'t make sense in some ways, too. I also think doubling the tax is not a suffice tip. |
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| Matthew |
That's pretty standard everywhere, but a friend of mine was explaining that 18% is going to become the new etiquette since 15% only covers taxes on waiters' salaries. (granted, they vary from state to state). |
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| lakmé |
I think everyone in our society should be required to do at least a year of work in the service industry. Because then you know what it's like. And I agree that mastachen's friend's way of tipping is COMPLETELY douchey. COMPLETELY.
(This is unrelated to most of the conversation here. Just my opinion based on the CRAP way most people treat service employees in my experience.) |
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| Quique |
I've never worked in food service, but I've done sales and jewelry repair work, and it wasn't pretty.
I agree with everyone else that Alex's friend's way of tipping is appallingly rude. Btw, has Sbux raised their prices? Tall skinny vanilla lattes used to cost $3.00 even. I just paid $3.30 for mine. As much as I love that place, I'm gonna have to stop going there so often. It's just way too expensive. |
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| Roger's Chica |
We have not raised our prices as far as I know. Usually it is a huge big deal because we do it rarely.
I suspect you were probably mischarged. Previously, there was a "skinny" button for all of the skinny lattes (a skinny vanilla latte button, a skinny caramel latte button, etc) but now there is just one button entitled "skinny latter". We are meant to press "skinny latte" and the "sub sf vanilla" or "sub sf caramel" or whatever, but I can see how a poorly trained barista or someone having an off moment might press "add sf vanilla" instead of "sub". I would bring it up to the barista if it happens to you again. That... or the price of milk went up in your area. |
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| moongoddess82 |
Personally I think that the stigma associated with tipping is ridiculous. Thewhole reason behind it, to me, is to reward for above-average performance, but now it`s like you HAVE to tip at a restaurant. Raise minimum wage for servers to match that of all other job descriptions and PAY THEM WHAT THEY DESERVE. Tips have become part of a server`s salary, which is completely wrong.
In response to tip pooling, I am a bit on the fence as some others have described- I can see both sides. I don`t see why your specific position shouldn`t share in the tips when you are esentially a barista as well, however I see the point that when people are tipping, they do it to reward a specific person for specific things that they have done, not the general experience. Obviously if a meal comes out cold or there is something... shall we say, a little unnecessary, in your food, then it isn`t the server`s fault and they shouldn`t be punished for it by reducing their tip for a mistake just by the same token they shouldn`t be rewarded for the excellent food- they didn`t make it, and `they didn`t come up with the recipe. I`ve heard the etiquette rule here in Ontario that you also don`t tip on drinks (don`t take into account the cost of the drinks in your 15% calculation) because the waiter didn`t make them... and yet the bartender ends up sharing that tip anyways. I think the whole system is a bit silly and messed up, if you ask me. |
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| Quique |
I'll make sure to let them know that I had always paid $3 for the same drink until just recently. Another thing that worries me is the possibility they make an error and give me a regular vanilla latte instead of a skinny vanilla latte. Sometimes they taste different and I wonder if they made it with the sugar-free syrup. I count calories regularly as I'm always on some diet, and it would suck if those lattes have a lot more than the 90 calories a skinny one is supposed to contain. Apart from the sugar-free syrup, are they automatically made with non-fat milk or do you have to request it? |
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| Robinflamingo |
I agree 100%, even with my disgust at the word "douchey" (LOL, I'm such an old person). I worked in food service as a busser, then wait staff, then convention food, then waitstaff then fast food managements off and on from 1972 to 1983. When I started, minimum wage was $1.65, and we got $.75 - yes, you read that correctly. One more thing to remember, beyond the fact that Erin's situation stinks and should be fixed, is that if you use a coupon and get free stuff, you are supposed to tip on the total VALUE of the meal/service. If you get your second meal free, you tip on the value of the two meals. The waitstaff didn't work any less hard just because YOU got a deal. I'm very protective of my waitstaff. Because of my illness, Mike and I eat out at a couple of local diners two or three times a week, and they are always glad to see us, know us by name, and know that we'll be pleasant customers, and give a good tip. |
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| Roger's Chica |
A skinny latte, by definition, has sugar-free syrup in it, non-fat milk and no whip. It is possible that your drink could have regular vanilla pumped into it instead of the sugar-free (which would bring your drink up to approx. 150 calories in a tall), though this is really unlikely because the syrups are easy to tell apart. It is also possible that they might put 2% into your drink instead of skim, which would also bring you up to approx. 150 calories. This was more likely under the old system because we used large pitchers and if someone mixed up the steaming pitchers (put them on the wrong sides or messed up the labels) and then stepped off bar, whoever replaced them might not realize that the pitchers are switched and give someone the wrong milk. Under our new system, we use small pitchers and virtually have new milk for every drink, so mess-ups like that shouldn't happen anymore. As long as your drinks are labelled SKVL, there shouldn't be any mix-up in the making of them. Drinks also taste different based on how well the milk is steamed. My drinks taste far better than someone who makes crappy foam. So that affects your taste, but not your calories. (Can we tell I am procrastinating?) |
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| The Next Ten Minutes |
I like this idea! |
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| Beagle On Stage |
Dude... We just established that this is for douchebags. Don't do it, it's rude. |
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| Roger's Chica |
I would be so embarrassed if someone I was with did that. It is such an obnoxious way to lord your position as "customer" over your server. I would just rather my dining companion not tip at all than do something like that. |
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| Matthew |
It's like treating your waiter like a dog or a small child.
"If you're bad, you won't get dessert!" |
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| jesuiscommejesuis |
Seriously though, that is mad douchey.
Also, you don\'t even know what the tip should be in the first place. And what if the waiter ends up being extra good? Theres nothing about adding dollars to that pile explained by mataschen. If I were his waiter, Id slap him across the face. Hell, if I were out to dinner with him, Id slap him across the face. I hate people who are so blindly patronizing. |
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| DaddyDiesel |
When tipping started many years ago the tip was givin to their server and/or worker to ensure quality service. It obviously has changed since then.
I worked as a server and as a manager for a restaurant for 4 years. One day I had a customer come in at 5:30am. He came in with his 2 boys. I did my normal thing and treated the best I knew how. At the end of the dinner he left me a $20 and said thank you for actually serving me and not treating me like a commission salesman. It took me a while to realise what he was talking about then I kind of stood back realised so many servers act fake and do the technical book steps without adding any sort of personal touch to try and get a good tip. THen when they dont get what they are expecting they bitch and moan about getting a lousy tip. which is so backwards. Anyway sorry for the off topic rant. What ishappening toyou sucks. I know when I was a manager I couldnt recieve tips but I got paid a much higher dollar per hour amount. I do have to admit that starbucks is probably in the wrong here though. It was a statelaw they should be paying attention and paying its supervisors more. |
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| theonetowatch |
Not to mention that taking away a DOLLAR seems like a relatively large amount. If you start out with a $5 tip and take away an entire dollar every time you have a "problem" with the waiter, you'll look like even more of an asshole. |
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| star2ballie |
Obviously everyone can't do this, but one time my mom's friend and her husband went out for breakfast at ihop and had a decent (albiet obviously tired and stressed) waitress. The people right next to them were incredibly rude to her and they saw them bas. do the same thing Alex's friend do. Their bill was like 10 dollars total, but they left her a $100 dollar bill. AHH!
Also, once at Coldstone our line was literally out the door, and when that happens our owner goes out and talks to everyone in the line and helps them decide what they want/assure them it won't take long. And he told one guy at the very back of the line that it wouldn't be more than 10 minutes. The guy hollered up to us that if we could get to him in 10 minutes, he would personally hand us each a 10 dollar bill (there were 7 of us serving). Lo and behold, we did. I wish I had money to throw around. When I'm absurdly rich, I will spend many of my days tipped people large sums of money unexpectedly. |