[Yip1982]

I do hope I'm not going to ruffle anyone's feathers, but something makes me think that the entire output of R&H just seems ripe (and possibly right) to be assessed as one.
There is another thread that assesses why many R&H shows seem to be so unoriginal after borrowing from each other. However, I would like to share something on a different angle. I've thought that there are certain thematic similarities in many of the R&H shows that I could hardly assess each show as its own self-contained unit.
It strikes me that Curly, Nellie and Maria all enjoy the great outdoors, and I see some shades of Lietunant Cable in Billy. The reason for this is that we know Billy to be a bigot, and it just seems to pre-echo Lietunant Cable's prejudices. Will Parker appears to suggest shades of Joe Taylor because both have experienced the city, and Joe Taylor in turn seems to be derived from the inclinations of the Frake family in State Fair. Julie, Tuptim, Cinderella and Mei Li all share some kind of a naive innocence (and yes I can see it even in Maria and Liesl).
I would like to mention that many of the R&H musicals have shared themes as a unifying thread for their works. I think this unifying thread is that they tell stories about values that either remain constant or change, and also about standing up for your beliefs. I think I can see this in the exploits of Nellie, Anna and Maria. I can also see some kind of value-clash between Joe Taylor's city life and the homely life of his family, and it just seems to suggest some pre-echoes of the value conflict in Flower Drum Song.
I'm terribly sorry if all these thoughts are so haphazard, but I think we can explore these a little further.

[The Duchess of Mint]

Dear Yip1982,

I agree with you. I hadn't really connected all of these shows in the way by which you connect them, but, now that I think about the entire situation, I can see the connections which you mentioned.

I think that Laurie actually enjoys the great outdoors, too, even though she enjoys it in a way which is more thought-related than physical. I mean, she alludes to the outdoors a great deal during "Oklahoma" (Ie: She says that people will gossip "just like a swarm of mud wasps," etc.) On the stage, Laurie is more of a tomboy than she is in the movie.

I don't understand why you think that Billy is prejudiced, because I don't know whom he seems to be prejudiced against. I know that Billy is a grumbly sort of a guy, and that he doesn't seem to respect women, or "snobs," or rich people; Billy seems to dislike so many people that there seem to be many groups of people against whom he's prejudiced. Were you referring to wealthy people when you said that Billy was prejudiced?

Couldn't Margie, from "State Fair", also be considered innocent, with regards to her inexperience?

What do you think of the more maternal Rodgers and Hammerstein figures? Don't the Fairy Godmother (from "Cinderella"), Cousin Nettie (from "Carousel"), Wang Ta's Aunt ? (and perhaps Helen, too, from "Flower Drum Song"), Lady Tiang (?) (from "The King and I"), Bloody Mary (and, at the end, Nellie, from "South Pacific"), and Margie's mother (and perhaps that performing lady from "State Fair") all seem similar?

I think that it's interesting that all (?) Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals focus on a young ingenue, and that the ingenues all have female friends who are also in love, and that the maternal figures in the musicals aren't ever searching for love.

I mean, some of the aforementioned maternal figures are married, but some of them are not. I'm wondering if Rodgers' and Hammerstein's treatment of those characters was meant to send anyone a message.

Cousin Nettie plays a large role in the song "June is Bustin' Out All Over", and the meaning of that song is pretty obvious, but, well, Nettie doesn't seem to want to find a lover of her own. Why is that the case? I guess that I'm slightly suspicious of anyone who seems to celebrate the pairing up of others without wanting a love affair of their own.

Cinderella's Fairy Godmother and Wang Ta's aunt have their reasons for keeping to themselves; the Fairy Godmother isn't human, and Wang Ta's aunt wants to keep her cultural traditions alive (?).

Yet, I don't understand why Bloody Mary would get so worked up about a connection for her daughter, without wanting to pair herself up with someone. She seems to be living through her kid, and yet, she seems like the type who should be trying to romance someone. Weird.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[mercurialasaka]

[rcs]

[Salome]

Billy isnt Prejudiced Enoch Snow is.

[teapot]

Helen, from Flower Drum Song, does not fit the characterization of the "mother figure". She harbors a tragic unrequited love, not maternal feelings. In the original story, she commits suicide because she can never have the man she wants.

[The Duchess of Mint]

Dear teapot,

I know what you're saying, but I personally think that Helen seems to be maternal.

I've only seen the movie version of "Flower Drum Song", and in the movie, Helen helps Wang Ta into his graduation gown, etc. She's very maternal towards him, and he sees her as being a maternal figure; she'd like for him to see her as being romantic, but he sees her as being maternal. She IS sort of protective of him, and she takes care of him, in various ways, so she can be seen as being sort of maternal, even though maternalism probably isn't her goal.

Yet, how do we know that she doesn't love him in a slightly maternal way? She is, after all, older than he is.

Thanks in advance for your reply.