[OneSongGlory]

Okay, so when I saw The Last Five Years a few months ago, I knew the storyline, the music more or less, but by watching it, it gave me a new look on the show; I had no idea who to sympathize with. And it was so emotional, too! The actors performing in it were phenomenal and both portrayed their characters very well, and I didn't know if I felt worse for Cathy because Jamie cheated on her and made her miserable or worse for Jamie because Cathy made him, in turn, miserable as well, both before and after the affair(s?), but was still such a sweet and sincere guy. Anyways, I just recieved the score and brought it over to my piano and when I got to the scene where Jamie wakes up with the girl (is her name Elyse, or is that someone totally different?) and sings the whole "Hey Kid, good morning" etc. part, and it was, again, super emotional. So I just thought I'd make a post on MDN (do we call this place MDN or MNet now?), asking who you sympathized with when, and why?

[The_Wicked]

I DEFINITELY sympathize with Cathy more. Jamie was such a jerk! And what a lame-ass excuse for cheating. "She just doesn't give me enough space man." So she's clingy. Oh well! Maybe you shouldn't have married her! And during the song "See I'm Smiling" she is putting herself out there, trying to make it work, and Jamie is a million miles away. And it's her birthday! I mean, seriously. And THEN during "Nobody Needs to Know". He is telling his editor (who is the one in the bed) about how he is going to LIE to her about the whole thing on top of everything else he did. The only reason Jamie is miserable is because he wants to screw around with other women and sit in his apartment and ignore his wife. Sorry, I really kind of loathe Jamie by the end of the show.

[MsDivaKate]

I definitely am a Cathy supporter all the way. I had a friend, during the middle of Nobody Needs to Know, right when you realize Jayme is with another woman exclaim "Oh no he didn't!". It was amusing because she didn't mean to say it out loud and she definitely was not quiet about it.

[Imy]

I'm not going to go around supporting Jamie's affair or anything, but I get a little frustrated when people say that Jamie was a jerk. Cathy is controlling, and more than that she's jealous of Jamie's success in writing while she struggles with landing tours and regional gigs.

Yes, she puts herself out there during "See I'm Smiling," but Jamie does the same thing during "If I Didn't Believe in You." The line "If I'm cheering on your side, Cathy, why can't you support mine?" comes to mind. She's so afraid of losing him that she gets out of control with her jealousy and would rather have him fail so they can be "happy."

[MsDivaKate]

That's just Jamie's interpretation of why she is acting the way she is towards him. We never right out hear Cathy, through any of her songs, say that's what she wants.

I think that's the beauty of the Last Five Years. You hear the two sides seperately and both tell the story so differently, you don't know who to believe. With If I Didn't Believe In You you're only hearing Jamie's side of the argument. Same as in See I'm Smiling.

[The_Wicked]

Yes, we only hear Jamie's side of the argument in "If I Didn't Believe in You". Cathy never really expresses any real resentment whatsoever towards Jamie's success. She just wishes she came first. Which is completely reasonable I think. I mean when you hear Jamie singing "A Miracle Would Happen" and he's talking about "getting a cup of coffe, while you look at my manuscript" and then he is "gesticulating with his left hand" and then Cathy appears... I'd be pretty damn pissed at him too. Right off the bat he is doubting the stability of the relationship. Which is fine except for the fact that they just got married and he shouldn't have proposed if he wasn't ready yet the fat jerk! You can tell I have some underlying issues. But even if she was a jealous control freak who was clingy as hell... that's kind of a really lame excuse for cheating.

[Imy]

But "wishing that she came first" is a sort of resentment. And it's also a sort of jealousy.

And of course we only hear Jamie's side of the argument in "If I Didn't Believe in You." The whole show is set up to only hear one side of an argument at a time. And I don't think he's doubting the stability of the relationship during "A Miracle Would Happen." He's telling himself to close his eyes because he "cannot touch them. In fact [he] can't even look at them." It's just hard for him to not respond to that positive female attention when all he seems to get from Cathy is negative.

But honestly I don't know if the point of this show is to place the blame somewhere. I think that if you look at this show with the opinion that it's someone's "fault" that this all happened, then you're wrong, becuase both of them clearly contributed a lot to the end of their marriage; it wasn't just one person's fault. I think this show is just portraying how humans naturally will place the blame entirely on someone else before looking at the big picture.

[The_Wicked]

Good argument. But Jamie can still do no right in my eyes. Everything he does just sucks. And Cathy and I have been in similar situations and are similar people so I guess I tend to sympathize with her more. And she also has better songs which doesnt hurt.

[RainbowJude]

I must admit that I am pretty mixed on The Last Five Years. I really loved the show when I saw it live, but I've found it wears thinner and thinner the more I listen to the cast recording. Repeated listens really reveal single lyrics that, for whatever reason, don't quite work and there are many times when, musically, Brown is being his (usual) Sondheim-derivative self, something that really sits in the way of me getting to grips with Parade, by the way. It's really only the structuring that elevates The Last Five Years beyond what might otherwise become maudlin.

The show tries so hard to tell a universal story through a specific one and it works for the most part, but I think that's because the story itself is so typical in a way and deals with lowest common denominator feelings in relationships. It works so well because everyone has had some experience of the relationship dynamics that Jamie and Kathy experience. It's easy to be seduced by the way the show allows you to cast yourself in one role or the other when you watch it and vilify your ex-lovers by casting them in the other.

In terms of the characters and blame - although there is a balance between Jamie being a jerk and Kathy being needy and her causing his response to her, at the same time, Jamie's behaviour towards her for the most part just makes the problems he has with her bigger. I think that in the writing itself, the sympathies ultimately lie with Kathy and any balance between his behavior and hers is in the playing - production specific, rather than being something that sits specifically in the show itself. While I think the production I saw found the cause-and-effect that people above have implied exists about the relationship, it's one of the thinks that I find lacking in the cast recording. I really don't like what Norbert Leo Butz does with Jamie and I find I can barely listen to Jamie's songs anymore. I think Butz makes him an unforgivable prick. I don't even find that his "Schmuel Song" - I guess Jamie's most obviously winning moment - makes me feel otherwise.

The emotional range of the characters doesn't cut as deep or ring as true as as it could; there's a lot that feels like teen angst - which is part of what I like about it, ironically, but I don't know that there's anything inherent to the material and which hasn't got to do with my personal identification with what's going on in the show that really stirs the depths of my soul. It just plays around in the upper regions. It doesn't break me up profoundly. For instance: is "A Part of That" really so different from the way Dot feels about George in Sunday? Yet there's nothing in The Last Five Years that gets to emotional grips with what's going on in the relationship in the way that, say, "We Do Not Belong Together" does. Yeah, parts of The Last Five Years are moving, but I couldn't say it gives me a similarly complex and truly heartfelt emotional experience.

I must admit that thinking about this makes me wonder why I have this liking for the show in spite of what I've said here. I guess it's really the memory of what was a really great production.

Later days
David

[Disney-Bway27]

Now THAT is a thread revival.

[Matthew]

I love you, David.

[reedzee]

Definitely just had a "ZOMG HE'S BACK!!!11" moment.

[LedZeppelinBarbieGirl]

[Matthew]

[Astonishingg]

Oh screw it. I can only sympathize with Jamie, I can't imagine how he could deal with an obnoxious little victim like Cathy for as long as he did. He was pinned down in his relationship.

[xxstagekiss]

[RainbowJude]

That's rubbish. An affair is always a choice. It's not something someone forces you into. You can make as many excuses for it as you like, but it's not something that just happens. If Jamie wasn't happy, then he should have had the balls to confront her instead of being a passive aggressive liar and if he wanted to be with other women then he should have divorced her first.

Later days
David

[xxstagekiss]

I would argue that the entire song "If I Didn't Believe in You" is Jamie confronting Cathy, but I do agree that the term "backed him into a corner" or whatever I said was too harsh.

[audreydarling]

Well honestly I sympathize with both. I mean I know the background of the writing and it is pretty much about JRB and his ex-wife so of course he is going to try and make excuses for Jamie and put him in a better light. I think the levels come from the performances and I have to say that I really love the cast recording even though they both slide all over the place because there is a deepness and something that touches everyone. I don't think Butz portrays Jamie as an unforgivable prick because I would forgive him but maybe that is just me. and his voice is simply gorgeous. Having planned to do this show with a previous flame of mine and then living through all the situations and being told that our theme song is "nobody needs to know" not sure if I am Elyse or Cathy though having taken on the role of Cathy, L5Y hits a chord in me that goes to a very deep place and I'm sure others have similar experiences. But I think in the writing JRB makes Cathy seem needier because he is essentially writing from Jamie's perspective and I totally agree that part of why Jamie has such a problem with Cathy is his own insecurity and laziness and Cathy has her problems with Jamie not out of jealousy but for a need to be loved since she is not finding that in her career. insecurity breeds on insecurity. ok i'll stop now. interesting conversation though. I still really want to do this show with my Jamie I just think that would be interesting if the raw emotions really came out on the stage.

[Elphaba22]

I think I sympathize with Jamie? Does that make me a bad person? Like Cathy is extremely insecure. And if she's that insecure that she can't function normally in a relationship, I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with her either.

[RainbowJude]

[Astonishingg]

[RainbowJude]

[Theaterfan101]

While I have not seen the show, I have listened to the recording and read reviews enough times to have a good understanding of the show (it is basically sung through right? so I get the whole story from the cd?). THe first few times I heard it I hated Jamie and was siding completely with Cathy. A few more times I listened closer and got confused. Was it really Jamie's fault or did Cathy push him away? Eventually I must have heard the cd in its entirety 200 times and listen closely to lyrics 3/5 of those times that I came to the conclusion "It's her fault and I am going to marry Jamie".
I know he is a fictionally character, but I'm going to find a way to embody him in a human being and take him as my husband, much like class mates will do to Edward Cullen, except my man is human and not ugly. The joke with two of my friends is, one is Cathy and she gets him first, then the next is the woman she cheats with and he calls her kid ("Hey kid get up now...") and then not seen in the play he leaves that friend for me, and I'm the second and final wife.
I find "If I Didn't Believe in You" to be the most beautiful love song, even if it is about love dying, and the truth he projects about his feelings about her admirable. Shiksia (sp) Goddess is charming and like Cathy's "I Can Do Better Than That" shows the selflessness of their relationship.
It seems to me that they fell in love because of mutually respect for each other and dreams for one another. The asymmetry of "The Next Ten Minutes" shows at one point the love and commitment was even and large with each other. Like mentioned before "A Part of That" show Cathy's envy of Jamie's success caused her to be jealous of him (bonus points for correct use of vocab words!) and tried to stop him from moving ahead ("no jamie you don't have to go to another party..."). "A Perfect World" shows that Jamie tries to respect ("and I keep stipulating with my left hand, I'm just stipulating with my left hand") while Cathy just keeps blaming him. I find "A Summer In Ohio" to be very bitchy and that she is doing the thing where you try to get people to apologize with out blaming them, and that further deters me from her.
I don't think it was right for Jamie to cheat on her. Cheating is never right, but I don't blame him for leaving her and I don't think that "he shouldn't of married her" as some people here are suggesting. I think he was once in love but her neediness and jealousy pushed him away and, as he says in "If I Didn't Believe in You", he cannot love her any more if she does not support him.

[eponine5]

This is one of my favourite shows so I just wanted to add some of my thoughts.

Like someone mentioned before, I don't see this show as one that asks the audience to judge the characters in it or to blame one or the other. Instead, I think that it simply tries to depict realistic, flawed characters, and the way that a real relationship can build up and fall apart - not because of one of them failing to make the relationship work, but just because the two are human and aren't right for each other. The way I see it, they are pretty perfect for each other to start with - both struggling artists with dreams that have not been achieved yet, but as time passes Jamie's efforts begin to pay off while Cathy's don't, until Cathy realises that she has been left behind and she feels jealous. I would do the same in her situation, but the point is that she becomes defensive and possessive which is what essentially pushes Jamie away from her. They begin as equals (if anything Cathy is the more confident one if you compare 'I Can Do Better Than That' with 'Shiksa Goddess'), but then as Jamie becomes more successful Cathy starts to feel inferior and she makes Jamie guilty for something which is no fault of his own, and in the end it's him who can't take it anymore. The relationship simply doesn't work.

Personally I love all the songs and the lyrics, and I love the total subjectivity because we can't see life any other way. I also think that the writing leaves a lot of the interpretation up to the actors, and that's why it's so difficult because the performances have to balance each other perfectly otherwise the story doesn't work. If one of the actors is a stronger performer than the other, you will end up liking them more, and similarly if they play their character totally for sympathy and try to be completely likable and innocent then the story will be biased.

For example, the first time I saw the show I couldn't stand Jamie and was 100% on Cathy's side. But that was because it was quite frankly an awful production that I saw at the fringe and the Cathy played it sugary sweet, while the Jamie was a terrible actor and singer who consistently spat in the (50 person) audience. It was only after listening to the cast recording a ton of times that the characters evened out in my mind. Then the second time I saw the show I was on Cathy's side again, although that was because it was Julie Atherton who is generally amazing and although she played the character perfectly with all her flaws, she was far superior to the actor playing Jamie. So basically, the show itself doesn't blame either, but the actors are what make the relationship what it is in any given performance.

[Am0911]

There something I've been wondering ever since I first heard this show..

Cathy says, "And I" in basically every song she sings.
There has to be some meaning behind it, I can't think of a clear reason why, so I ask all of you this.

What do you THINK it means? Have you noticed it too?

[Elphaba22]

I think actually Sheri Renee Scotts voice makes me perceive Cathy as at fault, I think her voice gets a little whiny in some of the songs, making her seem immature to me.

Another thing is these character are NOT fictional, JRB wrote it about his relationship with his ex-wife, and she actually sued him when he first wrote it, because it was so realistic.

[Astonishingg]

Personally, I disagree. While I really am not a fan of Sherie's, I think that she's one of the very few people who can make Cathy as un-pathetic as possible. Granted, she's still really pathetic and whiney, but there's only so much of that that can be attributed to the actor as opposed to the lyricist/composer. I've seen the show handfuls of times and have heard "I'm Still Hurting" from several dozen girls, and Sherie's was by far the most mature I've seen/heard.

[Matthew]

The show is meh to me. I'm not a JRB type anymore. I find his music trying and pretentious.

[RainbowJude]

[Matthew]

[RainbowJude]

[Matthew]

[RainbowJude]