The Duchess of Mint
|
The hair-brained idea that Toby HAS to be a child! SPOILERS!Dear "Sweeney Todd" Fans,
SPOILERS!
I was watching "Sweeney Todd 14" on YouTube, and I realized that once a Broadway musical has been made into a movie, people can be downright stubborn about how the musical "SHOULD" be performed.
Everybody seems to be creeped out by the original Tobias, and they seem to think that he's "too old". THAT'S a crock, because Tobias wasn't ORIGINALLY supposed to be a child! Some of those people who lack a basic knowledge of Broadway musicals really make me sick! Perhaps every high school Drama class should have to teach the history of musical theatre, or something.
I mean, I think that both the Broadway musical AND the movie are memorable in their own ways.
Who can forget the mentally slow Toby's meltdown/ revalation at the end of the musical? I think that Toby SHOULD be creepy; he's mentally disabled, and he's been locked away with dead bodies. The fact that everybody expects for him to be YOUNG, and UN-CREEPY, is just insane; perhaps they are creeped out by Toby because he is able to be morally sound, even if he's slightly slow.
Who can forget the very young Toby's delivery of justice to Johnny Depp's Sweeney Todd? I'll never forget watching poor Toby crawl up out of the sewer, like the rat that Mrs. Lovett had turned him into, to deliver justice to the throat of Sweeney Todd, as if to say, "You've done many bad things, and you need to be stopped!". Toby's slightly animalistic action literally interrupts Sweeney's grieving process; Sweeney is forced to weep blood, instead of tears, over his dead wife's body.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
|
MusicalGal1194
|
Re: The hair-brained idea that Toby HAS to be a child! SPOIL | The Duchess of Mint wrote: | | Toby's slightly animalistic action literally interrupts Sweeney's grieving process; Sweeney is forced to weep blood, instead of tears, over his dead wife's body. |
That was absolutely poetic!
And I completely agree with you, one the terms that Toby could be cast as either a child or a mentally unstable man. I personally like Neil Patrick Harris's rendition of it on the Sweeney Todd: In Concert version. Try looking it up on Youtube, it's really spectacular. He plays Toby as a young man/ fully grown man, and in the beginning you wouldn't suspect anything's mentally wrong with him. But by "Not While I'm Around" you know for certain that something is amiss. When it comes to Sweeney's death scene, Toby is absolutely a maniac, crazed, unstable man.
THAT's the way Toby should be played.
|
Yakko
|
Re: The hair-brained idea that Toby HAS to be a child! SPOIL | MusicalGal1194 wrote: | | The Duchess of Mint wrote: | | Toby's slightly animalistic action literally interrupts Sweeney's grieving process; Sweeney is forced to weep blood, instead of tears, over his dead wife's body. |
I personally like Neil Patrick Harris's rendition of it on the Sweeney Todd: In Concert version. Try looking it up on Youtube, it's really spectacular. He plays Toby as a young man/ fully grown man, and in the beginning you wouldn't suspect anything's mentally wrong with him. But by "Not While I'm Around" you know for certain that something is amiss. When it comes to Sweeney's death scene, Toby is absolutely a maniac, crazed, unstable man.
THAT's the way Toby should be played. |
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO HAS READ MY MIND!!!
|
Vice
|
Re: The hair-brained idea that Toby HAS to be a child! SPOIL | MusicalGal1194 wrote: | | The Duchess of Mint wrote: | | Toby's slightly animalistic action literally interrupts Sweeney's grieving process; Sweeney is forced to weep blood, instead of tears, over his dead wife's body. |
That was absolutely poetic!
And I completely agree with you, one the terms that Toby could be cast as either a child or a mentally unstable man. I personally like Neil Patrick Harris's rendition of it on the Sweeney Todd: In Concert version. Try looking it up on Youtube, it's really spectacular. He plays Toby as a young man/ fully grown man, and in the beginning you wouldn't suspect anything's mentally wrong with him. But by "Not While I'm Around" you know for certain that something is amiss. When it comes to Sweeney's death scene, Toby is absolutely a maniac, crazed, unstable man.
THAT's the way Toby should be played. |
I fully agree. (He's my favourite Toby.)
|
Clarabelle
|
I agree, MusicGal.
Just a point though Duchess- do you really have to put 'spoilers!!!' on everything? It's kind of a given that people know what happens in the show if they are going on a forum to discuss it. And it does my head in just a little bit.
|
pennypingleton1994
|
Re: The hair-brained idea that Toby HAS to be a child! SPOIL | The Duchess of Mint wrote: | Dear "Sweeney Todd" Fans,
SPOILERS!
I was watching "Sweeney Todd 14" on YouTube, and I realized that once a Broadway musical has been made into a movie, people can be downright stubborn about how the musical "SHOULD" be performed.
Everybody seems to be creeped out by the original Tobias, and they seem to think that he's "too old". THAT'S a crock, because Tobias wasn't ORIGINALLY supposed to be a child! Some of those people who lack a basic knowledge of Broadway musicals really make me sick! Perhaps every high school Drama class should have to teach the history of musical theatre, or something.
I mean, I think that both the Broadway musical AND the movie are memorable in their own ways.
Who can forget the mentally slow Toby's meltdown/ revalation at the end of the musical? I think that Toby SHOULD be creepy; he's mentally disabled, and he's been locked away with dead bodies. The fact that everybody expects for him to be YOUNG, and UN-CREEPY, is just insane; perhaps they are creeped out by Toby because he is able to be morally sound, even if he's slightly slow.
Who can forget the very young Toby's delivery of justice to Johnny Depp's Sweeney Todd? I'll never forget watching poor Toby crawl up out of the sewer, like the rat that Mrs. Lovett had turned him into, to deliver justice to the throat of Sweeney Todd, as if to say, "You've done many bad things, and you need to be stopped!". Toby's slightly animalistic action literally interrupts Sweeney's grieving process; Sweeney is forced to weep blood, instead of tears, over his dead wife's body.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
|
I'm also sick of hearing that Johnny Depp IS Sweeney Todd! Now I love Depp as much as the next person, but when some fangirl says that without (and actually refusing to) listening to any of the cast albums, it just annoys me.
Oh, and George Hearn is the best Sweeney, BTW. 
|
dolbinau
|
Sori but Johnny Depp is my home boy and he is da best sweeney that eva lived!1111 Sweeney todd was some shit moosical that wud hav suked wid out him and tim burton.
Who da ---- is george bearn? i bet Steven Soundhem wud agree dat Johnny is betta!!!111111
|
The Duchess of Mint
|
Believe me...Dear Clarabelle,
Believe me; I really hate typing the term "Spoilers" all of the time. LOL! I just don't want someone to have to say "Thanks a LOT, Loser, for spoiling the SHOW for me!"
Maybe I'm just being sensitive, and I shouldn't waste so many keystrokes...LOL! 
Thanks in advance for your reply.
| Clarabelle wrote: |
Just a point though Duchess- do you really have to put 'spoilers!!!' on everything? It's kind of a given that people know what happens in the show if they are going on a forum to discuss it. And it does my head in just a little bit. |
|
The Duchess of Mint
|
Re: The hair-brained idea that Toby HAS to be a child! SPOILDear MusicalGal1194,
Thanks.
I think that Toby could be successfully portrayed in a variety of ways. Neil Patrick's portrayal of Toby sounds interesting; I'll have to look the concert version of "Sweeney Todd" up on YouTube.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
| MusicalGal1194 wrote: | | The Duchess of Mint wrote: | | Toby's slightly animalistic action literally interrupts Sweeney's grieving process; Sweeney is forced to weep blood, instead of tears, over his dead wife's body. |
That was absolutely poetic!
And I completely agree with you, one the terms that Toby could be cast as either a child or a mentally unstable man. I personally like Neil Patrick Harris's rendition of it on the Sweeney Todd: In Concert version. Try looking it up on Youtube, it's really spectacular. He plays Toby as a young man/ fully grown man, and in the beginning you wouldn't suspect anything's mentally wrong with him. But by "Not While I'm Around" you know for certain that something is amiss. When it comes to Sweeney's death scene, Toby is absolutely a maniac, crazed, unstable man.
THAT's the way Toby should be played. |
|
fjays
|
Well...
I like the idea of toby being a young boy..
But when he is a man, it adds to the creepy factor and it just makes the story. there's just something about it.
|
Barberous
|
[Edit - You can ignore this post. Since posting this, I've realised/remembered that the dialogue makes it pretty clear that Toby is either slow or a child. I was thinking only of his songs.]
Maybe someone can remind me, does Tobias *have* to be dim or childlike at all? I mean, the lyrics to 'Pirelli's Miracle Elixer' are pretty witty, even thought that song may be a well-rehearsed spiel made up by Pirelli. And yes, maybe Tobias is a bit naive with regard to Sweeney and, especially, Lovett - but wouldn't anyone be, we don't tend to suspect murder of people who are kind to us. Maybe there's something I'm forgetting which proves how slow he really is?
|
pennypingleton1994
|
| dolbinau wrote: | Sori but Johnny Depp is my home boy and he is da best sweeney that eva lived!1111 Sweeney todd was some shit moosical that wud hav suked wid out him and tim burton.
Who da ---- is george bearn? i bet Steven Soundhem wud agree dat Johnny is betta!!!111111 |
You know, sometimes they do say that, nearly word-for-word.
|
Monsieur D'Arque
|
Toby's dialogue is always written as if he is a sort of Artful Dodger-like Dickensian street rat, living by his wits. However, that's not the only way he can be played.
1. A la the movie, a child, quick-witted but emotionally fragile. His breakdown at the end is shocking because a child, seemingly innocent, has been driven mad and put through too much. See Ed Sanders, and most films of the Sweeney story.
2. A young man, somewhat disturbed, but still with most of his mental capacity. See Neil Patrick Harris.
3. A full-grown, extremely disturbed and retarded man. No one has ever portrayed Toby this way, but I'd love to see a hulking, gigantic, disturbing Toby. For instance, if Ethan Suplee (My Name Is Earl, Bad Santa, Americna History X), would play Toby.
|
rolyemoly
|
I totally think toby is great as a little kid. It's so heart breaking and much more emotional if hes a little innocent boy. When he's old I feel no emotion for him what so ever. I think Edward Sanders was extatic in the movie! I luv his voice! =~D
|
mastachen
|
Extatic?
So.. what, it's perfectly ok to make up words now? Not to mention you used it completely wrong.
|
PaperAnimator
|
While I certainly don't mind the child version of Toby, but my personal favorite is Edmund Bagnell's Toby from the recent tour. I saw it in Chicago and I was completely blown away by his interpretation. He was childlike and curious, but like D' Arque mentioned, he was obviously disturbed (one way to interpret that show is that it may all be a delusion of his) and that made him unnerving. His reaction scene was incredible. Not to mention he his violin playing actually seemed to add to his character.
Just my 2 cents
|
IndigoMedusa
|
Well, having Toby be a man may be stretching it. After all, he is referred to in the script as being a "young lad" (therefore, having him be a hulking, fully-grown retarded man just wouldn't fit the bill). He could certainly be at the age of a man, but his physical and psychological development is stunted due to malnourishment (as was the case with many kids at that time). I imagine Toby as an 18-year-old with the mind of a very young child.
Onstage, though, he can be older. I think that in the movie, though, he should've been a teenager at least.
|
