MaryMag
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the "overdone" controversyI have been thinking about this a lot lately.
There are a lot of overdone lists for songs and monologues out there. And it seems as if posters on this board are aware of that and take care that their songs and monologues are not considered 'overdone.'
But then sometimes it seems like we are going to the other extreme - trying to find the most obscure songs possible.
And I wonder how absolutely necessary obscurity is. Sometimes I even wonder if casting directors ENJOY hearing standards! There is a particular theater that I audition at that I have NO luck at. I try very hard to audition with little known songs. Well I look at the cast of this theater's most recent production, and I know most of these folks, and I know what they sing at auditions. And what do all these folks sing? OVERDONE SONGS. I know for a fact the belter lead auditioned with "No Good Deed."
So now I'm wondering if there are some casting directors who LIKE wellknown songs. Cuz I know the next time I audition for them I'm singing something like "Can't Help Lovin that Man of Mine"!
ANYWAY
My current feelings on the "overdone" issue:
-avoiding overdone songs and monologues kinda sucks because many of them ARE GREAT. They're overdone for a reason because they're technically challenging or they're hilarious or what have you.
-yet, going in and singing Wicked, Phantom, Rent, or Les Miserables trumpets your amateur-ness. I still maintain that most people that sing these songs are the people that aren't familiar with anything BUT these big musicals. They therefore advertise their lack of MT knowledge by doing a song from these shows.
- concerning monologues, there are SO many out there that it is not hard to avoid the ones on the overdone lists. There's a billion more published plays than published musicals.
- the overdone lists might be a little long. There are a few songs that you hear 10 times at one audition (All That Jazz being one of them), but even relatively overdone songs like Vanilla Ice Cream are heard maybe once or twice. So I think the list could be cut down quite a bit.
- quoted from broadwayworld.com post: "As someone who's been Resident Musical Director at an Equity theatre for 28 years, and done over 100 musicals, let me say two things:
1: No mediocre performer has ever been cast because they had a really clever, original choice of audition song.
2:No brilliant perfomer has ever NOT been cast because we were tired of hearing their "overused" audition song. "
and that's it for now
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SuperKabob
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there's still the question of what type of theatre you're auditioning, and if you know how familiar the panel is with Musical Theatre songs.
edit: remembered what I was going to say.
There's a huge plus of not singing a song that nobody else has (at least not recently) You aren't up for comparison. If you sing a song that maybe another person or two sings the same day, you are setting yourself up to be compared to that person. Which means that you have to BE better to begin with, or work a hell of a lot harder to do something else with the song. Becuase, lets face it. We're all not the best singers at the audition. I'd be the first one to admit that my voice could use a TON of work to get it to where I want it to be. Singing a song that nobody else has, on the other hand, eliminates competition.
IMO, anyway, the best audition songs are not the most obscure, but the ones that make the directors think, "maybe I've heard this before." (hopefully from a show)or "I love this song, haven't heard it in forever!" That would usually make them pay the most attention to the person auditioning, and therefore make them more memorable.
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jazzygirlsings
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At the same time, an extremely obscure song can take the director's focus off of you and suddenly they're thinking "I haven't heard that song...where is it from?" Instead of really focusing on your performance.
I think there's a delicate balance and if you're good and look right for the part in their minds, then it really doesn't matter too much what you sing...as long as it's not too obscure or too overdone...
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sleepy7653
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So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
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jazzygirlsings
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| sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
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That's not what I said at all...LOL!
You have to pick appropriate songs for the audition and you have to find a comfortable balance between doing a song that's too obscure and doing a song that's too overdone.
This all takes preparation...
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Glissando
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I don't do overdone, I do recognized. I've done By Bye Birdie, Guys and Dolls, South Pacific, Gigi, Aida, Annie Get Your Gun, etc. Shows that the directors know but aren't saying, "I swear, if one more person sings [insert song title]!" Because I'm tired of hearing Tomorrow, Castle On A Cloud, etc. too.
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MsDivaKate
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I really do think it all depends on what level of theatre you are auditioning for. If you are auditioning for anything regional, rep, basically a certain level of professional theatre, you should try to do your homework and find something that styllistically fits the music from the show you're auditioning for, as well as expressing a character's sentiments. Whether this be a totally obscure song or a more recognized piece that just isn't used often, that's your choice to make. One of my favourite audition pieces, when appropriate, is I've Never Said I Love You, its Jerry Herman, its from Dear World, and it fits a lot of ingenue roles in more legit shows. Its not completely obscure and most people in musical theatre know who Jerry Herman is, but not a lot are familiar with Dear World as they are Mame or Hello Dolly.
For community based theatre, where sometimes the people running the show don't know that much about theatre themselves (trust me, I've seen it happen in my area) you have a little more room to expand into the realm of the overdone as these directors may actually prefer to have you sing from the show or do songs they are familiar with because that is what they themselves are used to.
MaryMag posted a nice little bit of advice from the Equity music director. However when they say brilliant, they basically mean next big thing, I've never heard a voice like that brilliant. I think its safe to say he's referencing the type of people who can sing the overdone song just as good if not better then the original performer themselves.
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candymancan
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I think it is good to do well known song but obviously not the BIG musicals or signature songs. Signature songs are big ones for me! I hate it when people try to sing them, it just isn't the same... because you may be able to sing it but it just isn't the same sounding as the original person.
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pinkstiletto510
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i figure if you kick butt doing the piece, then go for it
I use Vanilla Ice Cream tons because it fits me like a glove...and not to brag but I have a stellar high B
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musicalsnewbie
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ay ay | sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
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I totally, totally agree. It seems like a lot of people blame not getting a role on the song they auditioned with... maybe they're just not right for the role! Haha. With a lot of singers, most singers, I think, if they pick a song for their range, no matter what that song is, the casting director should be able to tell if the person is talented or not, or right or wrong for the role. I don't think a casting director would cast based on song choice! I really don't think song choice has much to do with anything. I think it's something people get caught up on in the auditioning process, and they put a lot of emphasis on it, because then they can use it as an excuse for not getting cast. Casting directors are not that dumb! They're not casting a SONG, they're casting a SINGER!
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MaryMag
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| jazzygirlsings wrote: | | sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
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That's not what I said at all...LOL!
You have to pick appropriate songs for the audition and you have to find a comfortable balance between doing a song that's too obscure and doing a song that's too overdone.
This all takes preparation... |
But singing ability is definitely more important than song choice. So hypothetical situation: you have only one hour to prepare for your aud. Do you use it training your voice or do you use it researching songs?
I know people who are brilliant and pick vomitous songs. They consistently get cast. I know average singers who pick brilliant songs and don't.
But I know horrid singers that don't get cast no matter what. So it does seem to be ability that is the deciding factor.
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MsDivaKate
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| MaryMag wrote: | | jazzygirlsings wrote: | | sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
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That's not what I said at all...LOL!
You have to pick appropriate songs for the audition and you have to find a comfortable balance between doing a song that's too obscure and doing a song that's too overdone.
This all takes preparation... |
But singing ability is definitely more important than song choice. So hypothetical situation: you have only one hour to prepare for your aud. Do you use it training your voice or do you use it researching songs?
I know people who are brilliant and pick vomitous songs. They consistently get cast. I know average singers who pick brilliant songs and don't.
But I know horrid singers that don't get cast no matter what. So it does seem to be ability that is the deciding factor. |
Well ability in general is the overall factor, there are times when good singers will get cut simply based on song choice. When doing an overdone song, unless you are 100% better then the original performer, you run the risk of being tuned out by the directors because they've heard the song 50 times before.
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wicked_diva
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Of course, then there are the songs that you assume are totally overdone, but people still enjoy. When I auditioned to be a Silly Girl in BatB, I used Simple Joys of Maidenhood. Afterwards, the accompanist looked at me in a thinking sort of way and asked me what it was from, and when I responded, he was like, "Of course! I haven't heard that in ages!" So you never know...
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SuperKabob
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^^lol....thats the song I'm using for my camp. Hoped it would get that reaction. And Camelot is coming to a nearby theatre the weekend AFTER, so people won't have just seen someone else do it.
And, as usual, I agree with DivaKate.
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MsDivaKate
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| wicked_diva wrote: | | Of course, then there are the songs that you assume are totally overdone, but people still enjoy. When I auditioned to be a Silly Girl in BatB, I used Simple Joys of Maidenhood. Afterwards, the accompanist looked at me in a thinking sort of way and asked me what it was from, and when I responded, he was like, "Of course! I haven't heard that in ages!" So you never know... |
Now see I'm not sure I would have assumed that as overdone in community level, especially if its in a youth theatre where a lot of people might not be familiar with Camelot.
Also some of the old standards which USED to be overdone, are actually becoming less popular as more people are attempting to use Phantom,Les Mis,Wicked etc etc.
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jazzygirlsings
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| MsDivaKate wrote: | | MaryMag wrote: | | jazzygirlsings wrote: | | sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
|
That's not what I said at all...LOL!
You have to pick appropriate songs for the audition and you have to find a comfortable balance between doing a song that's too obscure and doing a song that's too overdone.
This all takes preparation... |
But singing ability is definitely more important than song choice. So hypothetical situation: you have only one hour to prepare for your aud. Do you use it training your voice or do you use it researching songs?
I know people who are brilliant and pick vomitous songs. They consistently get cast. I know average singers who pick brilliant songs and don't.
But I know horrid singers that don't get cast no matter what. So it does seem to be ability that is the deciding factor. |
Well ability in general is the overall factor, there are times when good singers will get cut simply based on song choice. When doing an overdone song, unless you are 100% better then the original performer, you run the risk of being tuned out by the directors because they've heard the song 50 times before. |
Let's be perfectly frank here...Ability is NOT the overall factor. I'm finding more and more that LOOK is starting to really become more of a factor than ability at most auditions on the level I'm at...
Often, more talented singers are overlooked because of that...
The bottom line is that you can't get into the casting directors' heads. Therefore, you really should show them that you are knowledgable, as well as talented. Put your best foot forward and be prepared. The preparation you put into your audition will show more casting directors than not, that you will put just as much (if not more) preparation into the show if you're cast in it.
You bring the best product you can bring into the audition room and if they like it, fine...if they can't use you, that's fine too!
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JIJane
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"I'm finding more and more that LOOK is starting to really become more of a factor than ability at most auditions on the level I'm at...
Often, more talented singers are overlooked because of that..."
You hit the nail on the head jazzy. That is absolutely what I say in my book and what is happening here in the UK also. Ability is far down the line. Things like contacts, how much the production team likes you, height, look, other credits, how they like your audition song etc etc - all play a large part BEFORE talent and skill actually come into the equation.
As I say in my book - sometimes a panel will prefer a person auditioning that is actually less talented or skilled (like in the UK they hired a mezzo for My Fair Lady lead in the West End because they liked her "style") - but looks more suitable, is nicer or a more "fun" person, had a more interesting audition song. Yes, I have seen this happen, it is a VERY subjective industry. Don't be fooled thinking that just because you can hit a top C and "well none of the other girls could do it as well as me" (which may well be true) - that you will get the job. So many factors come into play when hiring an actor.
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JIJane
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"The preparation you put into your audition will show more casting directors than not, that you will put just as much (if not more) preparation into the show if you're cast in it."
Another very important point, much agreed! 
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jazzygirlsings
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*Curtsies*
Thank you...
LOL!
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MaryMag
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| jazzygirlsings wrote: | | MsDivaKate wrote: | | MaryMag wrote: | | jazzygirlsings wrote: | | sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
|
That's not what I said at all...LOL!
You have to pick appropriate songs for the audition and you have to find a comfortable balance between doing a song that's too obscure and doing a song that's too overdone.
This all takes preparation... |
But singing ability is definitely more important than song choice. So hypothetical situation: you have only one hour to prepare for your aud. Do you use it training your voice or do you use it researching songs?
I know people who are brilliant and pick vomitous songs. They consistently get cast. I know average singers who pick brilliant songs and don't.
But I know horrid singers that don't get cast no matter what. So it does seem to be ability that is the deciding factor. |
Well ability in general is the overall factor, there are times when good singers will get cut simply based on song choice. When doing an overdone song, unless you are 100% better then the original performer, you run the risk of being tuned out by the directors because they've heard the song 50 times before. |
Let's be perfectly frank here...Ability is NOT the overall factor. I'm finding more and more that LOOK is starting to really become more of a factor than ability at most auditions on the level I'm at...
Often, more talented singers are overlooked because of that...
The bottom line is that you can't get into the casting directors' heads. Therefore, you really should show them that you are knowledgable, as well as talented. Put your best foot forward and be prepared. The preparation you put into your audition will show more casting directors than not, that you will put just as much (if not more) preparation into the show if you're cast in it.
You bring the best product you can bring into the audition room and if they like it, fine...if they can't use you, that's fine too! |
I actually do agree with you there, that look is even more important than ability. But I think look, ability, who you know, and personality are all more important than song choice. So it would be unwise to devote too much of our energies to finding audition songs. Yes song choice is an indicator of knowledgeability and it will probably give the CDs an idea of how much ya know, but great ability will get your farther than a great song choice, I think.
Of the big 5 casting determinants: look, ability, personality, who you know, and song choice, you really only have control over 2. They are ability and song choice. And in the scenario the equity casting director gave above (brilliant singer with overdone song and average singer with brilliant song,) I do sincerely believe the brilliant singer will do better (assuming the brilliant and average girls are fairly equal in terms of the other determinants.)
Maybe I'll make another long ass post discussing what I consider to be the 5 casting determinants... and I'm not even sure I'm using the word determinant right... but maybe I'll check that too..
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rebellohan
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i agree with the it depends where you're auditioning for thought
at my theatre group noone had even heard of wicked till i did defying gravity in the variety show
but i do live in a very small town
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JIJane
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| rebellohan wrote: | i agree with the it depends where you're auditioning for thought
at my theatre group noone had even heard of wicked till i did defying gravity in the variety show
but i do live in a very small town |
I think me and jazzy were talking about professional auditions. I am sure it is quite different with community and other amateur auditions.
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jazzygirlsings
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| JIJane wrote: | | rebellohan wrote: | i agree with the it depends where you're auditioning for thought
at my theatre group noone had even heard of wicked till i did defying gravity in the variety show
but i do live in a very small town |
I think me and jazzy were talking about professional auditions. I am sure it is quite different with community and other amateur auditions. |
Yep...that's correct!
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rebellohan
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| jazzygirlsings wrote: | | JIJane wrote: | | rebellohan wrote: | i agree with the it depends where you're auditioning for thought
at my theatre group noone had even heard of wicked till i did defying gravity in the variety show
but i do live in a very small town |
I think me and jazzy were talking about professional auditions. I am sure it is quite different with community and other amateur auditions. |
Yep...that's correct! |
arghh sorry lol
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MsDivaKate
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| jazzygirlsings wrote: | | MsDivaKate wrote: | | MaryMag wrote: | | jazzygirlsings wrote: | | sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
|
That's not what I said at all...LOL!
You have to pick appropriate songs for the audition and you have to find a comfortable balance between doing a song that's too obscure and doing a song that's too overdone.
This all takes preparation... |
But singing ability is definitely more important than song choice. So hypothetical situation: you have only one hour to prepare for your aud. Do you use it training your voice or do you use it researching songs?
I know people who are brilliant and pick vomitous songs. They consistently get cast. I know average singers who pick brilliant songs and don't.
But I know horrid singers that don't get cast no matter what. So it does seem to be ability that is the deciding factor. |
Well ability in general is the overall factor, there are times when good singers will get cut simply based on song choice. When doing an overdone song, unless you are 100% better then the original performer, you run the risk of being tuned out by the directors because they've heard the song 50 times before. |
Let's be perfectly frank here...Ability is NOT the overall factor. I'm finding more and more that LOOK is starting to really become more of a factor than ability at most auditions on the level I'm at...
Often, more talented singers are overlooked because of that...
The bottom line is that you can't get into the casting directors' heads. Therefore, you really should show them that you are knowledgable, as well as talented. Put your best foot forward and be prepared. The preparation you put into your audition will show more casting directors than not, that you will put just as much (if not more) preparation into the show if you're cast in it.
You bring the best product you can bring into the audition room and if they like it, fine...if they can't use you, that's fine too! |
I wasn't even thinking about looks when I wrote my response. You are absolutely 100% correct about that though jazzy. Plenty of really talented singers get typed out before they even get the chance to sing at some of these larger casting calls. My response was more on if we were judging by vocals alone....kind of in an idealistic world, not reality. If we go by voice alone-then ability does reign somewhat supreme over song choice at times. By ultimately having the right look will also be a HUGE part of the audition proces. However since we were discussing song choice alone, I don't think anyone thought to mention it.
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Jman383
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I have much to say on the topic. I'll be auditioning for college this coming year, and I've been stressing SO much about song choice. I've been going back and forth, up and down, here and there, just EVERYWHERE trying to find two songs, an uptempo and a ballad, that match my standards. Then I began talking with a friend who'll be attending Elon University in the fall. She gave me a few words of advice that probably changed my entire perspective on the issue.
What she told me was that yes, rare songs are great, but do NOT do two of them. When she auditioned for Syracuse University (where she was accepted btw), and she told them her selections, they didn't want to be bothered with the unknown song, they wanted to hear the one they knew (My Lord and Master from "King and I"), despite the fact it was a famous song just about EVERYONE in theatre knows.
The other bit of advice she gave me was to choose songs that you want to do. There's absolutely no sense in performing a song, or two for that matter, that you have no personal connection or desire to be doing, regardless of where they're from. All in all, if you've got talent, the director, or casting persons, or whoever, will see it, even in spite of the song choice. Still, while it is crucial to stay away from cliche and obviously amateur stuff like Wicked, Rent, Les Mis, and Phantom etc, try to choose something that best fits you and that you can make believable. Otherwise, you're honestly screwing yourself over, and not living up to the potential you have.
Just my two cents on that; I believe everything she told me to be true, and with that said... any suggestions on a pre 1960's uptempo male character song possibly from a well known show? Haha. I figured I'd throw that in there while I was at it! 
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JIJane
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| Jman383 wrote: | I have much to say on the topic. I'll be auditioning for college this coming year, and I've been stressing SO much about song choice. I've been going back and forth, up and down, here and there, just EVERYWHERE trying to find two songs, an uptempo and a ballad, that match my standards. Then I began talking with a friend who'll be attending Elon University in the fall. She gave me a few words of advice that probably changed my entire perspective on the issue.
What she told me was that yes, rare songs are great, but do NOT do two of them. When she auditioned for Syracuse University (where she was accepted btw), and she told them her selections, they didn't want to be bothered with the unknown song, they wanted to hear the one they knew (My Lord and Master from "King and I"), despite the fact it was a famous song just about EVERYONE in theatre knows.
The other bit of advice she gave me was to choose songs that you want to do. There's absolutely no sense in performing a song, or two for that matter, that you have no personal connection or desire to be doing, regardless of where they're from. All in all, if you've got talent, the director, or casting persons, or whoever, will see it, even in spite of the song choice. Still, while it is crucial to stay away from cliche and obviously amateur stuff like Wicked, Rent, Les Mis, and Phantom etc, try to choose something that best fits you and that you can make believable. Otherwise, you're honestly screwing yourself over, and not living up to the potential you have.
Just my two cents on that; I believe everything she told me to be true, and with that said... any suggestions on a pre 1960's uptempo male character song possibly from a well known show? Haha. I figured I'd throw that in there while I was at it! |
"they wanted to hear the one they knew (My Lord and Master from "King and I"), despite the fact it was a famous song just about EVERYONE in theatre knows."
Indeed, however even though everyone knows this song I have YET to head it being done at a college or pro audition! Thing is, there are known classic MT songs that are very rarely done (even though everyone knows them) - another thing to keep in mind when choosing songs.
"The other bit of advice she gave me was to choose songs that you want to do. "
Absolutely, so very true.
"any suggestions on a pre 1960's uptempo male character song possibly from a well known show? Haha. I figured I'd throw that in there while I was at it! ["
“That’s for me” from State Fair
"All I need is the girl” from Gypsy
"She is not thinking of me from Gigi
“Wouldn’t you like to be on Broadway” from Street Scene
“You’ve got that thing” from Fifty Million Frenchmen (Cole Porter)
”I won’t dance” from Roberta (well known standard recorded by people like Sinatra)
"Red, hot and blue" from Red, hot and blue
"The Most beautiful girl in the world" from Jumbo
"Leaning on a lamp post" from "Me and my girl"
"Where is the life that late I led" from Kiss me Kate
"My defences are down" from "Annie get your gun"
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Jman383
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Wow, thank you very much! Those suggestions are TERRIFIC!
P.S. My friend who used the King and I song for her audition is not only Asian, but an AMAZING one! I'm sure one of the reasons it's hardly done for college auditions and such is because I personally don't know many Asians who go into musical theatre, no where near the numbers of whites and blacks that do anyways. But she's one kickass little dancer! I'm not sure what her other ballad was (she had 2 of each), but her mainly used uptempo was "I Speak Six Languages" from Spelling Bee. So fierce.
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JIJane
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| Jman383 wrote: | Wow, thank you very much! Those suggestions are TERRIFIC!
P.S. My friend who used the King and I song for her audition is not only Asian, but an AMAZING one! I'm sure one of the reasons it's hardly done for college auditions and such is because I personally don't know many Asians who go into musical theatre, no where near the numbers of whites and blacks that do anyways. But she's one kickass little dancer! I'm not sure what her other ballad was (she had 2 of each), but her mainly used uptempo was "I Speak Six Languages" from Spelling Bee. So fierce. |
No problem, hope they help! I think you can sing "My lord and master" if you are not Asian, I don't think that has to be a prerequisite. As long as you have the right physical build, vocal tone, playing age and generally are the ingenue type I think people of other races can also use this song at an audition.
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Bianca.
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| Jman383 wrote: | Wow, thank you very much! Those suggestions are TERRIFIC!
P.S. My friend who used the King and I song for her audition is not only Asian, but an AMAZING one! I'm sure one of the reasons it's hardly done for college auditions and such is because I personally don't know many Asians who go into musical theatre, no where near the numbers of whites and blacks that do anyways. But she's one kickass little dancer! I'm not sure what her other ballad was (she had 2 of each), but her mainly used uptempo was "I Speak Six Languages" from Spelling Bee. So fierce. |
Completely and totally seconded.
This girl is fierce in every sense of the word.
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Bianca.
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P.s. Jord.. I can totally see you doin Gypsy.. and you'd be good with 'my defenses are down' too.
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musicalsnewbie
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. | MsDivaKate wrote: | | MaryMag wrote: | | jazzygirlsings wrote: | | sleepy7653 wrote: | So bascially all we need to do is to work at being good and then we can use anything at our audition.
|
That's not what I said at all...LOL!
You have to pick appropriate songs for the audition and you have to find a comfortable balance between doing a song that's too obscure and doing a song that's too overdone.
This all takes preparation... |
But singing ability is definitely more important than song choice. So hypothetical situation: you have only one hour to prepare for your aud. Do you use it training your voice or do you use it researching songs?
I know people who are brilliant and pick vomitous songs. They consistently get cast. I know average singers who pick brilliant songs and don't.
But I know horrid singers that don't get cast no matter what. So it does seem to be ability that is the deciding factor. |
Well ability in general is the overall factor, there are times when good singers will get cut simply based on song choice. When doing an overdone song, unless you are 100% better then the original performer, you run the risk of being tuned out by the directors because they've heard the song 50 times before. |
More impressive, though, I think, is the ability to take a popular, overdone song and make it your OWN, regardless of whether you're better than the original or not. When I hear someone do an old song in a new way that's totally different from the original, it gives me the impression that the person would be able to make whatever role they receive their own, as well. So many people just imitate. Sure, if someone imitates a singer, and if I'm a casting director, I'd tune that person out.
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Francois
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| Quote: | | any suggestions on a pre 1960's uptempo male character song possibly from a well known show? |
"Kansas City", from Oklahoma!
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