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Sweeney Hyde

Sunset Boulevard and ...Sondheim?!

I've been thinking about the potential that could have been Sondheim's adaptation of the film Sunset Boulevard, only for it to be abandonded because he was convinced it needed to be an opera and he didn't want to do an opera.

http://www.sondheim.com/features/stephen_sondheim.html

Now, we all know that Andrew Lloyd Webber made an adaptation of the film that was quite a success.

Please discuss all things Sondheim, Webber, and Sunset Boulevard.

Thanks to RainbowJude for bringing this article to my attention.

What do you guys think the comparison between a Sondheim and Webber adaptation would have been?

Also, if only the people that normal post on the Webber forums could post in this thread, it would be lovely, as I have another, almost identical thread, in the Sondheim forum for the Sondheimists. If we must we can combine the two threads at some point. For now, please discuss as Webber fans! Thanks!
Sweeney Hyde

I must say that I'm hardly surprised by the lack of response...
Mungojerrie_rt

Well I can't comment becasue I've never seen it. Plus it's stupid to try and say what a show would be like if a different person wrote it.
Sweeney Hyde

Why?
Mungojerrie_rt

Because it's impossible to know. You can't say "if Sondheim wrote it it would sound like this" because you can't. If you can then that is the sign of a bad composer.
Sweeney Hyde

No...we can never know for sure...but one can speculate. All composers have a particular style...Webber's is very distinc. Sondheim does certain things but his style is not so predictable as no two shows share score styles...A Little Night Music's is different from Sweeney Todd's which is different from The Frogs which is different from Sunday in the Park with George which is different from Merrily We Roll Along, etc.
Sweeney Hyde

bump.
The Duchess of Mint

Interesting situation!

Dear Sweeney Hyde,

The entire situation was...interesting...to say the least, because ALW ended up writing a sort of modern-sounding version of "Sunset Boulevard", and Sondheim probably would have written a similar type of "Sunset" musical, because HE didn't WANT to write an opera.

I think that it's almost funny that Sondheim just kept sticking to that "I won't write a musical of that story because it would HAVE to be an opera, and I don't WANT to write an opera!" idea. I think that Sondheim was allowing himself to be far too influenced by the opinions of other people, and that's sad, because he is such an inventive guy.

If he'd said "Like HECK it HAS to be an opera!", he probably could have written a sort of modern, inventive musical version of the story. Since Sondheim had just finished "Sweeney Todd", I think that his version of "Sunset Boulevard" might have been slightly more twisted, violent, etc., than ALW's version of the story.

Thanks in advance for your reply.
Cool
Sweeney Hyde

I don't entirely agree with what you wrote, but I don't necissarily disagree.


On the note of the opera...Sondheim has never wanted to get involved in opera...and possibly because he tried to write Sweeney Todd completely sung though and it was an utter disaster apparently...I don't know if he intended ST to be an opera persay...but yeah.
Hans

Sweeney Hyde wrote:
On the note of the opera...Sondheim has never wanted to get involved in opera...and possibly because he tried to write Sweeney Todd completely sung though and it was an utter disaster apparently...I don't know if he intended ST to be an opera persay...but yeah.


I don't think opera = sung through. It has more to do with the size of emotions, orchestrations and text/voice emphasis, I think.

Sondheim has always been scrupulous about letting content dictate form, and I think he saw that the content of SB would dictate a form he wsn't interrested in working with. He has often stated how he is indifferent to many of those aspects that makes an opera an opera (for example the beauty of voice).

I think Sondheim simply thought that SB is a story that had to be told in a way he isn't interrested in using.
RainbowJude

Sunset Boulevard

Dvarg wrote:
Sondheim has always been scrupulous about letting content dictate form, and I think he saw that the content of SB would dictate a form he wasn't interested in working with.


I don't think this has anything to do with the idea of content dictates form because I don't think it's necessarily true that Sunset Boulevard's content dictates opera as the only theatrical form in which the content could be realised. Billy Wilder's comment that discouraged Stephen Sondheim's attempts smacks of glib cocktail chatter from a man whose idea of musical theatre is shaped by a time when musicals were perceived to be a lot less versatile as a form than indeed they have proved to be.

Later days
David
Hans

Re: Sunset Boulevard

RainbowJude wrote:
I don't think this has anything to do with the idea of content dictates form because I don't think it's necessarily true that Sunset Boulevard's content dictates opera as the only theatrical form in which the content could be realised.


Maybe Sondheim thought so at the time?
IndigoMedusa

Quote:
Maybe Sondheim thought so at the time?



Even if he didn't, he probably wouldn't have wanted to do the project without Wilder's blessings. I wouldn't do a project if the creator of the original source didn't want it to happen.
what_the_heck013

IndigoMedusa wrote:
Even if he didn't, he probably wouldn't have wanted to do the project without Wilder's blessings. I wouldn't do a project if the creator of the original source didn't want it to happen.
Yeah, I'm fairly sure this is the reason that Sondheim would say that SB HAS to be an opera. He wasn't being influenced by the opinions of others, he was just respecting the wishes of Wilder.

Plus, if ALW hadn't written SB, he would be without one of his greatest scores.
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