BroadwayBaby9211
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Sunday in the Park with George in High School?The high school that the sister of a friend of mine goes to is putting on a production of SitPwG...I was shocked. I just simply cannot see this show being done by high school students.
It's too emotionally complicated, too vocally complicated, too beautiful to be done any justice by high school students...I mean honestly, could you see George and Dot/Marie being played by 17 or 18 year olds? Could you see teenagers singing We Do Not Belong Together or Move On?
What do you think?
-BB
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Sweeney Hyde
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Is it an arts school?
Otherwise...no...for the most part.
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blue wind
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sondheim in general is hard to do in high school....though i once saw a SPECTACULAR production of into the woods, but sitpwg is harder....
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Pannic
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I'd say no, but all the reasons you listed are the wrong reasons. Saying that a show is "too emotional/complex" for high schoolers to do justice to, or arguments on that line, is an argument against high schoolers doing musicals in general (or at least, against doing musicals anyone gives a crap about, thus negating much of the point of doing a musical in the first place).
A better argument against it would be the small cast size and the fact that it dotes too much of the leads. Extravegant sets might also be an issue.
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musikal_geek
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Yiiiiiiiiiikes.
It's such an emotionally complicated show. Learning the complex score would seem like a walk in the park (pun FULLY intended  ) compared to really digging deep into the characters.
I'd love to read a review or see some pictures/videos, though. Maybe I'm not giving it a chance.
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BroadwayBaby9211
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| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | Is it an arts school?
Otherwise...no...for the most part. |
Nope, just your average public school.
| Pannic wrote: | I'd say no, but all the reasons you listed are the wrong reasons. Saying that a show is "too emotional/complex" for high schoolers to do justice to, or arguments on that line, is an argument against high schoolers doing musicals in general (or at least, against doing musicals anyone gives a crap about, thus negating much of the point of doing a musical in the first place).
A better argument against it would be the small cast size and the fact that it dotes too much of the leads. Extravegant sets might also be an issue. |
I'm sorry, but I don't honestly think that many high schoolers could fully understand the frustration that Dot feels because the man she loves loves his work more then he can ever love her. I don't think that most could understand how in love George is with his work, how truly dedicated he is.
And, remember, I said most. I said many. Not all.
So, my reasons against it:
-Too emotionally complicated
-Too musically complicated
-Small cast/lead focus
-Extravagent sets/costumes
-BB
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Pannic
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I find the whole "not being able to understand" point rather dubious. It's deep, but I doubt it would go over the heads of a high school performer.
If said high schooler has any appreciation for drama (which that person would have to in order to succesfully be in a drama production), I think it's safe to guess they'd understand the point.
Anyone who's cultured enough to either A. want to be in the production or B. want to see it wouldn't have trouble understading.
I certainly think it doesn't go over my head.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| Pannic wrote: | I find the whole "not being able to understand" point rather dubious. It's deep, but I doubt it would go over the heads of a high school performer.
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Every single time I read the script, watch the dvd, or listen to the recording, I find out something new about it.
It has so much to say...I claim to understand the show but I still really can't completely wrap my mind around its sheer brilliance.
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Joshua
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| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | Pannic wrote: | I find the whole "not being able to understand" point rather dubious. It's deep, but I doubt it would go over the heads of a high school performer.
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Every single time I read the script, watch the dvd, or listen to the recording, I find out something new about it.
It has so much to say...I claim to understand the show but I still really can't completely wrap my mind around its sheer brilliance. |
Agreed.
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Pannic
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| Joshua wrote: | | Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | Pannic wrote: | I find the whole "not being able to understand" point rather dubious. It's deep, but I doubt it would go over the heads of a high school performer.
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Every single time I read the script, watch the dvd, or listen to the recording, I find out something new about it.
It has so much to say...I claim to understand the show but I still really can't completely wrap my mind around its sheer brilliance. |
Agreed. |
That doesn't have anything to do with emotional depth, or acting/singing the parts. That's merely theme analysis. That pertains to show appreciation and study, not performance.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| Pannic wrote: | | Joshua wrote: | | Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | Pannic wrote: | I find the whole "not being able to understand" point rather dubious. It's deep, but I doubt it would go over the heads of a high school performer.
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Every single time I read the script, watch the dvd, or listen to the recording, I find out something new about it.
It has so much to say...I claim to understand the show but I still really can't completely wrap my mind around its sheer brilliance. |
Agreed. |
That doesn't have anything to do with emotional depth, or acting/singing the parts. That's merely theme analysis. That pertains to show appreciation and study, not performance. |
If one does not understand the material, how is one to perform it?
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Joshua
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| Pannic wrote: | | Joshua wrote: | | Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | Pannic wrote: | I find the whole "not being able to understand" point rather dubious. It's deep, but I doubt it would go over the heads of a high school performer.
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Every single time I read the script, watch the dvd, or listen to the recording, I find out something new about it.
It has so much to say...I claim to understand the show but I still really can't completely wrap my mind around its sheer brilliance. |
Agreed. |
That doesn't have anything to do with emotional depth, or acting/singing the parts. That's merely theme analysis. That pertains to show appreciation and study, not performance. |
That's bull crap. Don't you think the actors have to understand the show before they can fully portray the character? If they haven't analyzed the themes, then what are they basing character development on?
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moongoddess82
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Okay I must be the shallowest musical-enthusiast in the world or really dense- what is so complicated about this musical???? Especially emotionally.
Theme for leads= unrequited love for Dot (Hello- Any Eppie Boppers out there- same idea); single minded devotion to a cause for George(ask any star athelete, for example, in highschool and I think they'd be able to relate) My 16 year old brother is as devoted to soccer as George ever was to proving that his painting style has merit.
As for difficult music- it is only difficult rythmically and that just requires people who can count (in crazy time signatures, I'll admit)
I'm just saying- it's not some brillantly difficult work of genuis. I think this is a horrible show for highschools to do but not for artistic reasons- more for economic reasons- it's not a good show with enough substance to draw the average crowd, nor is it popular and they probably won't draw the crowd required to even break even- especially for them to do it any justice with the set and costumes (the Sondheim equivalent of a SPECTACLE show)
I'm sorry- I like Sondheim, but this is not one of his better shows. Especially for Highschool
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Pannic
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Oh, I dunno... the dialogue and script, perhaps? That'd they'll have had plenty of time to analyze in the course of rehearsals?
The character mindsets aren't difficult to get. At least, not if they've been examining them for weeks in the course of rehearsing. If they don't get it after than long, they're either just dumb or a crappy actor.
The stuff in the show that's hard to get are the underlying themes. That has very little to do with the actors onstage.
Even all that aside, the notion that a highschooler somehow lacks the emotional capacity to understand is elitist at best, and pompous bullcrap at worst.
EDIT: Though I may as well concede my argument after reading the above post. >_>
I don't think Dot's love was exactly 'unrequited' if George impregnated her. I think it's more that she felt underapreciated, or that she couldn't 'get to him,' as the lyrics go. Hardly comparable to Eponine, who's love was not so much unrequited as it was a fruitless fantasy in her head.
As for George, he wasn't just trying to perfect something. He was trying to break through with something new.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| moongoddess82 wrote: | | Theme for leads= unrequited love for Dot (Hello- Any Eppie Boppers out there- same idea); |
George and Dot's love is requited, however, it sort of becomes not enough love directly to her. George has made her into who she is when she leaves him. "Look at all the things you gave to me. Opened up my eyes. Taught me how to see...notice every tree." Even her name is symbolic of how he has created her. How does George paint? With DOTS.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
single minded devotion to a cause for George(ask any star athelete, for example, in highschool and I think they'd be able to relate) My 16 year old brother is as devoted to soccer as George ever was to proving that his painting style has merit. |
But did your brother love soccer so much that it made him unable to express his love for anyone or anything else than soccer? George is so caught up in his work that he cannot get through to people. The George in act 2 is not so much like George as far as he cannot connect with people, but he's struggling anymore to connect with his art, something a ton of people go through at some point in their life, whether it be painting, sculpting, theatre, or soccer. He then realizes through Dot...well...many things. I fail to write about this particular part right now...it gets me too...worked up? 
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
As for difficult music- it is only difficult rythmically and that just requires people who can count (in crazy time signatures, I'll admit) |
Have you ever tried to sing it without the voices on the recording? Like...with a live piano? It's tough. Really tough. What the piano is doing, which as far as the theory end of it goes is nuts, doesn't really follow what the singer is doing...at all. Some of the vocal ranges are a bit wacky as well.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
I'm just saying- it's not some brillantly difficult work of genuis. |
This is your opinion, I understand, and I believe you are intitled to it, however, I disagree with all of my heart.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
I think this is a horrible show for highschools to do but not for artistic reasons- more for economic reasons- |
I disagree with the first half of that, but agree that it is not a good show for economic reasons, however, I don't place much in the economics of high school shows that have a long history of doing shows and having the money to do them year after year without any major problems...if it is a new program...yes...it's a terrible show to do for economic reasons.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
it's not a good show with enough substance to draw the average crowd, |
By "the average crowd" are you talking as far as numbers are concerned? Because there is no doubt that there is PLENTY of substance in the show...unless you're view of substance in a musical is different from that of mine...which I have a feeling it is.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
nor is it popular and they probably won't draw the crowd required to even break even- especially for them to do it any justice with the set and costumes |
I will give you that...it is not well known amongst those that aren't theatre people persay. However, in my experience, any mid-sized high school will get good crowds to their shows just between family and friends.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
(the Sondheim equivalent of a SPECTACLE show) |
Please don't put the phrase "spectacle show" and "Sondheim" in the same sentence...
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
I'm sorry- I like Sondheim, but this is not one of his better shows. Especially for Highschool |
Ha...you know what's coming...I disagree...A LOT.
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Joshua
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moongoddess82, The music is faaaaaaaarrrrr more complicated then just funky rhythms. Ever try singing George's staccato part of Color and Light? It's not hard because of the rhythm, it's just flat out hard.
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moongoddess82
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Just because Dot and George had sex does not mean her love is requited- although I suppose there is room to suggest that George may have loved her, just not as much as his art- however I think his complete dismissal of her kindof shows that his heart is most likely elsewhere, which is why I compared her to Eponine- Marius gives her his attention- ie as his "friend" but as soon as he meets Cosette, his heart is completely elsewhere.
My brother has a girlfriend whom he seems to have an okay relationship with- so no, his single minded devotion to soccer has not led to his inablilty to have a relationship- she is simply not his first priority. His soccer is. My point is that there is certainly something from real life- a strong passion that is their first priority, from which a teenager can draw in order to play George. That was my only point with that example.
Obviously I haven't sung any of George's songs- I'm a female and I am purely going on listening to the music- which I admit is probably not always the most accurate way to judge the vocal difficulty of some music. Again, I'm not saying that it is a simple score either- but not out of the reach of highschool students, was my point. Getting musically inclined people for the rythmically difficult parts will certainly be a challenge enough. I can't speak for George's part as I am not well versed in the male voice, but Dot's range does not seem to be anything out of reach of an average- I'll say mezzo. Most of Sondheims score require a more than average musicality in the performers- due to the rythms, lack of accompaniment and unpredictable intervals which require good pitch. A singer should also have good register switching technique for those intervals as well. These are not completely lacking in a highschool environment.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| moongoddess82 wrote: | | Just because Dot and George had sex does not mean her love is requited- |
I didn't say that.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
although I suppose there is room to suggest that George may have loved her, |
No. He did love her.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
just not as much as his art- however I think his complete dismissal of her kindof shows that his heart is most likely elsewhere, which is why I compared her to Eponine- Marius gives her his attention- ie as his "friend" but as soon as he meets Cosette, his heart is completely elsewhere. |
He does not completely dimiss her...not by a long shot. If anything she dismisses him...he can't take her to the follies one night...so she goes off and finds a guy to make him jealous? She breaks his heart. She leaves him. He gives her the choice to leave or not. He is not going to change who he is. She chooses to leave.
| moongoddess82 wrote: |
My brother has a girlfriend whom he seems to have an okay relationship with- so no, his single minded devotion to soccer has not led to his inablilty to have a relationship- she is simply not his first priority. His soccer is. However, I would hazard a generalization that many themes in movies and shows that are trying to have something poignant to say can somewhat exaggerate things to bring the point home. I know this is based on a real man's life, however artistic liberties were probably made, I'm sure My point is that there is certainly something from real life- a strong passion that is their first priority, from which a teenager can draw in order to play George. That was my only point with that example. |
Just because your brother can handle it does not mean that George can.
| moongoddess82 wrote: | | Obviously I haven't sung any of George's songs- I'm a female and I am purely going on listening to the music- which I admit is probably not always the most accurate way to judge the vocal difficulty of some music. Again, I'm not saying that it is a simple score either- but not out of the reach of highschool students, was my point. |
I am also getting the impression that you have only heard it...I'll give you three times. From your arguements it really doesn't sound as if you have seen the show...or read it...
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moongoddess82
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| Quote: |
Just because your brother can handle it does not mean that George can.
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That wasn't my point- I was only saying that a teenager has some life experiences they can draw upon to play George. That's it.
| Quote: | | I am also getting the impression that you have only heard it...I'll give you three times. From your arguements it really doesn't sound as if you have seen the show...or read it... |
Incorrect- I have seen the show- well, most of it anyway. By the middle of the second Act I had to get out of there because I really didn't like the show.
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BroadwayBaby9211
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One thing about the role difficulty...to those who said that the leads are not hard to play...
George is an incredibly deep character, and in order to portray the right feeling and make it believable, he has to NAIL it. And he has some extremely difficult parts...for example, Color and Light is ridiculously difficult to sing.
Dot is also an incredibly deep character (although not the most complicated female role that Sondheim has created), and has some fairly difficult solos as well...I have tried singing her, and it's HARD.
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Salome
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the obsession for George and the mixed emotional attachments of Dot are merely their surface emaotions. lets not forget Mare and George in act II and their relationship and how it conncects to Ac I.
not to mention the supporting cast who effect George and Dot's lives. anyone can play the surface of a show but it takes really experienced actors to get into the subtext on a show like this and make it effect the audience.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| moongoddess82 wrote: | | Incorrect- I have seen the show- well, most of it anyway. By the middle of the second Act I had to get out of there because I really didn't like the show. |
I'm glad you gave the show a chance. 
Until the see the whole thing, I really don't think it's wise to continue this discussion...it's like I'm declaring war on a country believed to have weapons of mass destruction and it turns out it doesn't...oh...wait...
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