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Fontinau

Should threads about ALW, Sondheim, or other shows...

...be banned from the Miscellaneous forum?

Personally, I thought the answer would obviously be "no". Both because no one posts in those new forums anyway, and because this forum is called miscellaneous as opposed to extraneous. (Thus presumably implying that being relevant to another forum on musicals.net doesn't make a topic irrelevant to this one.)

However, the mod who moved Ciaron's A Little Night Music thread (hi, Aimee) evidently disagrees.

Opinions?
Pasty

Well my thoughts are that if those posts aren't moved, the new forums wouldn't have a place and they wouldn't get used.
Kad

Why? The misc forum gets more hits and more reads than any of the show forums. If you want something to be seen, you should post it in the misc. forum. We didn't really need composer-specific forums.
Fontinau

*bump*
Pasty

Though thats the problem with the rest of the forums (ie: show specific ones). I think that the composer specific ones condenses everything so there is more stuff to read. Besides the les mis and cats forums barely any other forum gets used. Possibly down the road there could be posts here, but we should try to embrace these new forums and use them ya know?
Desperado

I don't even bother checking the other forums.
broadwaychild

Desperado wrote:
I don't even bother checking the other forums.


me neither. i LIVE in the miscellaneous forum. Very Happy
LaurelDP

People asked for more forums, and we got more forums.

But I guess we're so used to posting everything in the misc. forum, that we really didn't need more forums.
Kad

LaurelDP wrote:
People asked for more forums, and we got more forums.

But I guess we're so used to posting everything in the misc. forum, that we really didn't need more forums.


People asked for a Wicked forum.
Aimee

Banned? Of course not but we have three nice new forums. Let's use them eh?

I think it’s nice to have a place where all the Sondheim, R&H and ALW fans can chat about them together. It's much better then separate forums for each show which is what we had before.

It's what Sally wanted so I think we should support it and go with it. I think it’s an improvement.

If all Sondheim, R&H and ALW topics are put into the right forums the forums will grow and be great, interesting and thriving forums. At the moment they are new and people have to get used to change.

I say we have two choices;

1] Embrace it and make it great
2] Fight it and ignore because we don’t like change.
Kad

3: Question the mods because they shouldn't be performing post transfusions because the shiny new forums are shiny, new, and empty.

People will use the forums if they want to. They won't if they won't. Are you going to move EVERY topic that *really* belongs in a specific forum? If I post a topic about The Goodbye Girl right now, will it be whisked away to help that forum thrive and prosper?
Chi

You see, personally, I've always thought of the show specific forums as being almost like fan clubs. If I wanted to happilly gush about Les Mis, and get into really indepth discussions about every little detail of the show, I would post there. However, if there was to be a debate about the merits of the show, or the show in the broader sense I'd post it here. I think the misc forum is a good place to look at shows from a more objective point of veiw, in a place that isn't completely inhabited by their fans. Also, what I like about the misc. forum is the diversity of the topics. In one thread their would be a deep and meaningful conversation about a particular show, and in the next people would be stating the color of their socks. If all of the real theatre related threads were moved out of the misc. forum to their respective new forums, what could this place be other than the spam shack?

Chi
Aimee

Kad wrote:
3: Question the mods because they shouldn't be performing post transfusions because the shiny new forums are shiny, new, and empty.

People will use the forums if they want to. They won't if they won't. Are you going to move EVERY topic that *really* belongs in a specific forum? If I post a topic about The Goodbye Girl right now, will it be whisked away to help that forum thrive and prosper?
This happns on other forums. Why would you be threatened by it? It's not being deleted or censored its just being put into the appropriate new forum. Let's be positive about this shall we and go with it?

Not everything has to be a fight or a stick to beat the mods with.
Kad

Miscellaneous forum is about everything. Everything goes here. It is the salad of MdN. The other forums are the seperate dishes of ingredients on the salad bar.

A cherry tomato does not belong with the bacon bits. But both can fit in the salad.
Mel AKA Maureen

Kad wrote:
Miscellaneous forum is about everything. Everything goes here. It is the salad of MdN. The other forums are the seperate dishes of ingredients on the salad bar.

A cherry tomato does not belong with the bacon bits. But both can fit in the salad.


Hey Kad? Well said, well said indeed. Mr. Green
Aimee

I agree Kad, hense my saying it was not banned. But there is going to be a concerted effort to encourage posts into the right forum and posts may well be moved. If they are, they are.

Mel AKA Maureen wrote:
Aimee wrote:

Not everything has to be a fight or a stick to beat the mods with.


But you make it so goddamn easy.
It's always easy to find things if you want to do it Mel. That's the point. You all do it because you choose to, not because we are any better or worse than anybody else posting here. It's entirely down to you [plural] and nothing what so ever to do with us.

That's why it doesn't upset me, because I know it's completely beyond my control. It doesn't matter what I do as you [plural] will criticise anyway.

You [plural] even contradict each other in your complaints. For example some say 'The mods need to keep off the forums the moderate' and others say 'You're never here so how do you know what's going on?' Some say 'You must be totally unbiased in how you moderate' while others say 'You should use your discretion and ban people if you think they are trolls' We can’t actually please you all whatever we do.

So we are faced with one realistic choice, to do what we believe is fair and right ourselves because under all the clamour of moaning, whining, complaining and bitching any actually constructive points are lost.
Mel AKA Maureen

Whopps.
Mel AKA Maureen

Aimee wrote:
Mel AKA Maureen wrote:
Aimee wrote:

Not everything has to be a fight or a stick to beat the mods with.


But you make it so goddamn easy.


You [plural] even contradict each other in your complaints. For example some say 'The mods need to keep off the forums the moderate' and others say 'You're never here so how do you know what's going on?' Some say 'You must be totally unbiased in how you moderate' while others say 'You should use your discretion and ban people if you think they are trolls' We can’t actually please you all whatever we do.


I find it funny that you say "us" plural. We are all different people, and we all have different ideas on how this place should be run. Your job is to please everyone you can, while enforcing the "rules" (I quote them because I think they are questionable in and of themselves). And, as of now, I think it is clear that a lot of people are unhappy. Maybe you should stop doing what you think is "carrying out the rules" and start questioning them. Or even, god forbid, listen to someone on this damn place.
Aimee

Wrong my 'job' is to run the forum as I see fit, along with my fellow mods. YOUR job is to follow the rules whether you like them or not.
Aimee

Show me a rule you don't like.
Mel AKA Maureen

Aimee wrote:
Show me a rule you don't like.


Alrighty.

Quote:
3. Flooding or spamming a forum with posts.*
4. Breaking any of the Terms of Agreement of musicals.net.
5. Refusing to follow a reasonable request from a moderator.


Rule 3 because you use it objectively, there is no set guide lines for what spamming is. Therefore, some mods tend to use this as an excuse to take action, even when said mod is the only one who's sees something as "spamming". You want to fix this? Set some specific guide lines for "spamming".

Rule 4 because no one knows where the hell those terms are. And if you could point me in that direction, I would love to read and fix them too.

Rule 5 because this is also objective. Is a reasonable request publicly calling out someone and, however politely, asking them to stop something? Not really. And again, mods defend many actions with this rule, saying something was a "reasonable request" that was not followed, so someone was banned.
Aimee

1] This is defined for the mods but I will get back to you when I have a full answer for you. I wouldn't want to give you the wrong information.

2] http://musicals.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38302
Look in the top post below the rules, the terms of agreement are there for all to see. [you all agree to them when you joined so you should have known them anyway.]

3] Anything that facilitates the smooth running of the forum or asking members not to break the rules.

There, that was easy now wasn't it.
When you ask actual questions rather than bitching at us, we can actually answer.

Also we have now put up a thread to deal with these kinds of things. From now on please post there. Thanks.
Also we have now put up a thread to deal with these kinds of things. From now on please post there. Thanks.
Fontinau

Aimee wrote:
If all Sondheim, R&H and ALW topics are put into the right forums the forums will grow and be great, interesting and thriving forums.

Or potentially interesting discussions will be lost because they were kicked into forums that nobody reads (not out of "fear of change", but out of laziness - which you could argue is a bad thing, but like it or not, it's the reality here) and the Miscellaneous forum will become even less pertinent to musical theater than it already is.



You complain that various posters's suggestions contradict each other? Fine. Here's a suggestion I think we all can agree on:

Stop trying.
Pasty

Just start checking the other forums from now on?
is it that hard?
Fontinau

Pasty wrote:
is it that hard?

No, but no matter how much you want it to be otherwise, a lot of posters will be too lazy to do it.

And without a steady stream of casual posters, it's impossible to keep interesting threads going for long.

Trust me, I've seen enough forums die slow and painful deaths from negligence - both here and elsewhere.
RainbowJude

Keeping it on topic

I don't think that any threads should be banned from the Miscellaneous Forum, but I also don't have a problem with having the Mods move threads into an appropriate forum should one exist.

Because - if everyone is just going to post whatever they want wherever they want, why bother to organise the forums at all?

I don't think that encouraging laziness on the part of people who don't check other forums is a good thing and I think that unless some definite course of action is taken, that problem will never be solved. It will just perpetuate itself continually.

That's my opinion on the matter...

Later days
David
Quique

Cutting through all the bull - the moving of threads into their relevant forums is OK. Smile

(By the way, this isn't in response or referring to David's post above. Just thought it might be interpreted that way, hehe.)
The REAL Ciaron

Quique wrote:
Cutting through all the bull - the moving of threads into their relevant forums is OK. Smile

(By the way, this isn't in response or referring to David's post above. Just thought it might be interpreted that way, hehe.)


You are the HUGEST kiss ass!!

OMG AIMEE LOOK AT THE POLL!!! THE PEOPLE OF MNET DO NOT CARE IF SONDHEIM IS POSTED IN THE MISC FORUM! LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!!!
Fontinau

RainbowJude wrote:
Because - if everyone is just going to post whatever they want wherever they want, why bother to organise the forums at all?

But they don't. You know as well as I do that among the shows whose forums that get a decent amount of traffic, posters generally keep all but the most general points about them out of the Miscellaneous frum.

RainbowJude wrote:
I don't think that encouraging laziness on the part of people who don't check other forums is a good thing...

There's a difference between "encouraging" and "recognizing a preexisting reality".



The REAL Ciaron wrote:
You are the HUGEST kiss ass!

Nah. More like he's inversely kissing our asses.

(Bulls___ denial in 3... 2...)
jcstar

Desperado wrote:
I don't even bother checking the other forums.


I do, but I guess I'm a minority.

Andy.
Quique

Fontinau wrote:
(Bulls___ denial in 3... 2...)


Cute attempt in keeping my mouth shut but you should know by now that none of your little tactics work with me, honey dear.

At any rate...

Like I said before, if believing such nonsense brightens your insecure days, then by all means, be my guests, honnies. Smile

Such psuedo self-esteem, isn't exactly a secure individual's best friend, ya know? Wink

::yawns::
Tenor4Life

The REAL Ciaron wrote:
Quique wrote:
Cutting through all the bull - the moving of threads into their relevant forums is OK. Smile

(By the way, this isn't in response or referring to David's post above. Just thought it might be interpreted that way, hehe.)


You are the HUGEST kiss ass!!

OMG AIMEE LOOK AT THE POLL!!! THE PEOPLE OF MNET DO NOT CARE IF SONDHEIM IS POSTED IN THE MISC FORUM! LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!!!


The people don't know what is right, because the mods are SO much smarter than us. Come on Ciaron, you should know that.
MsJellicle

I can see moving some threads over there in the beginning to get people more aware of the new forums, and perhaps to attract more posters to them. But it's really not that big of a deal either way.

~MsJ
Fontinau

Quique wrote:
Cute attempt in keeping my mouth shut...

I wasn't. I was making fun of your inability to keep it shut.

Again with the paranoia.

You know I'd never hurt you...


Quique wrote:
...you should know by now that none of your little tactics work with me...

They're not my little tactics, Liebchen. They're your little tactics, which you project onto everyone else for lack of imagination.


Quique wrote:
Like I sad before *blargh* *blargh* blargh* insecure *blarhg* *blargh* *blargh* be my guests *blargh* *blargh* blargh* psuedo self-esteem *blargh* *blargh* blargh*

And like I said before...



I miss (evan).
Fontinau

MsJellicle wrote:
I can see moving some threads over there in the beginning to get people more aware of the new forums, and perhaps to attract more posters to them. But it's really not that big of a deal either way.

Get out of my thread.
MsJellicle

Fontinau wrote:
Get out of my thread.


No. It's an open forum. I can post if I want.

~MsJ
Quique

Fontie Bear wrote:
Quique wrote:
Cute attempt in keeping my mouth shut...


Grasp, grasp.


Fontie Dear wrote:
Quique wrote:
...you should know by now that none of your little tactics work with me...


Bluff, bluff.


Fontie Babe wrote:
Quique wrote:
Like I sad before *blargh* *blargh* blargh* insecure *blarhg* *blargh* *blargh* be my guests *blargh* *blargh* blargh* psuedo self-esteem *blargh* *blargh* blargh*


Whaaaa!!! Why dont's yo believe meh!...


No, no, no honey. You get help with a shrink. Got that? A S-H-R-I-N-K...

...NOT on a musicals forum. Comprende?

Now run-along...go chase your shadow, or something.
Fontinau

Quique wrote:
Now run-along...go chase your shadow, or something.

I used that one in middle school too.


Quique, did it momentarily occur to you to consider the irony of using You're grasping for comebacks! as your comeback?


---------------


EDIT: Alright, you know what? I'm sick of "coyer than thou".

Regard the following paragraphs as completely serious.

You're bad at this. Your jokes aren't funny. They aren't even original. You're not clever, you're not cutting, you're not insightful.

I wasn't pulling that Good Bye Lenin comparison out of nowhere yesterday. It's depressing to watch you go through these flame wars under the apparent impression that you're doing well.

If you're actually aware of this, and are pretending to be oblivious as another way of being annoying, that's less depressing, but not by much - since ultimately, that method of annoyance doesn't make me feel any worse in general. It just makes me feel worse while in your presence, by virtue of my contempt for you.

Likewise, your recent accusations of "insecurity" are annoying, and likewise, they're annoying for the wrong reason. I've been insecure for a large part of my life. I know what insecurity feels like. I also know what insecurity looks like in other people. I'm not insecure today, and simply being accused of insecurity doesn't bother me.

But seeing the idiotic pablum that "people who pick on other people are insecure" wheeled out does bother me - for the same reason that jcstar's "I teach my kids not to worry about what other people think" schtick bothered me a while ago. And seeing you repetedly call individuals who are clearly not insecure "insecure" bothers me as well, since it represents one of the rhetorical tactics I hate most in the real world: Repeating an untruth so often that people eventually assume, simply because of it's ubiquity, that it must contain a grain of truth. The Bush administration does this. The Nazis used to do this.

And yes, it's ridiculous to compare postings on a musicals forum with fascist propaganda - but the mentality behind them is the same.

Finally - I'm smarter than you. Loppy is smarter than you. Ciaron is smarter than you. Or, at least, the online personae we project are smarter than the online persona you project. That's made abundantly clear every time you try to engage me in a serious discussion about musicals, politics, or whatever - and every time I've seen you try to engage one of the forum's other smarter members in a serious discussion. It's also made clear in our flame wars, no matter how many coy affectations you throw up to make it seem otherwise.


Okay, that was a pointless waste of 20 minutes. But it felt good. And it wasn't totally pointless - at least now I can say I'm totally free of ambiguity. I think I've said just about all I want to say to you - and I don't enjoy flame wars with you at all. So, barring serious discussions or you bringing up a point I didn't address above, I'll probably just let this be a catch-all response to your future replies.

(Though of course I fully reserve the right to keep making fun of your replies to other people.)
OnceUponATime

Marry me Fontinau. My husband won't mind.
Quique

Fontinau wrote:
Quique wrote:
Now run-along...go chase your shadow, or something.

I used that one in middle school too.


Quique, did it momentarily occur to you to consider the irony of using You're grasping for comebacks! as your comeback?


---------------


EDIT: Alright, you know what? I'm sick of "coyer than thou".

Regard the following paragraphs as completely serious.

You're bad at this. Your jokes aren't funny. They aren't even original. You're not clever, you're not cutting, you're not insightful.

I wasn't pulling that Good Bye Lenin comparison out of nowhere yesterday. It's depressing to watch you go through these flame wars under the apparent impression that you're doing well.

If you're actually aware of this, and are pretending to be oblivious as another way of being annoying, that's less depressing, but not by much - since ultimately, that method of annoyance doesn't make me feel any worse in general. It just makes me feel worse while in your presence, by virtue of my contempt for you.

Likewise, your recent accusations of "insecurity" are annoying, and likewise, they're annoying for the wrong reason. I've been insecure for a large part of my life. I know what insecurity feels like. I also know what insecurity looks like in other people. I'm not insecure today, and simply being accused of insecurity doesn't bother me.

But seeing the idiotic pablum that "people who pick on other people are insecure" wheeled out does bother me - for the same reason that jcstar's "I teach my kids not to worry about what other people think" schtick bothered me a while ago. And seeing you repetedly call individuals who are clearly not insecure "insecure" bothers me as well, since it represents one of the rhetorical tactics I hate most in the real world: Repeating an untruth so often that people eventually assume, simply because of it's ubiquity, that it must contain a grain of truth. The Bush administration does this. The Nazis used to do this.

And yes, it's ridiculous to compare postings on a musicals forum with fascist propaganda - but the mentality behind them is the same.

Finally - I'm smarter than you. Loppy is smarter than you. Ciaron is smarter than you. Or, at least, the online personae we project are smarter than the online persona you project. That's made abundantly clear every time you try to engage me in a serious discussion about musicals, politics, or whatever - and every time I've seen you try to engage one of the forum's other smarter members in a serious discussion. It's also made clear in our flame wars, no matter how many coy affectations you throw up to make it seem otherwise.


Okay, that was a pointless waste of 20 minutes. But it felt good. And it wasn't totally pointless - at least now I can say I'm totally free of ambiguity. I think I've said just about all I want to say to you - and I don't enjoy flame wars with you at all. So, barring serious discussions or you bringing up a point I didn't address above, I'll probably just let this be a catch-all response to your future replies.

(Though of course I fully reserve the right to keep making fun of your replies to other people.)


Er...so you're using me to feel good about yourself again.

What else is new?

Can we please move on with our lives now? Some of us actually have one, ya know?

Thank you.

Kad

That was probably the most cliched comeback post I have EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE.

That has to be a joke. It can't be serious, it's THAT stupid and idiotic.
Fontinau

Quique wrote:
Er...so you're using me to feel good about yourself again.

Not "good about myself", Quique. "Good".

You know the difference.
Aimee

This thread has degerated into insulting board mebers. That is not acceptable and it will be locked for that reason.

If you have something new to say about forum policy you may continue this on the sticky thread.

Thanks you

Aimee
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