Justen
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Playing FaginSo, I'm new to the forums here, but was seeking some opinions.
I'm a semi-profesisonal actor (well, a young actor starting out, hoping to become professional), and I've been offered the role of Fagin in a high school production of Oliver!, but I haven't accepted it yet. I want to ensure I'm confident about doing the role and I'm weighing how I feel about doing a high school production now that I'm starting to enter the professional theatre world.
The basic story is that the director and I are both in the same choir and, when he couldn't find someone in his school who could play the role, he thought of me and offered me the part. Now, because he may likely be paying me a bit (Score! My first paid role!) and because he sought me out with no audition, I want to ensure that, if I accept this role, I can do it justice.
As for the songs, I think I'll be fine with some practice, as they're within my range. The question I'm concerned about is Fagin's accent.
Now, I've never done a show with an accent, but I was trained in Standard British. I think, provided I dedicate myself to it, I can learn an accent for the show. What I'm not sure about is which accent? I have yet to consult the director on this, but I wanted to do some research on my own and get some opinions first, before I asked him.
I'm not sure whether Fagin's accent should be more Cockney, lower-class British, etc. or more Yiddish or what. From what I've read, it can vary between the two, depending on the actor and director.
How do you all feel about this issue?
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London_Mungojerrie
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He doesn't really have an accent...watch the movie and see from there....that is how Fagin was played in London at the Palladium.
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Mr. Dawkins
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| London_Mungojerrie wrote: | | He doesn't really have an accent...watch the movie and see from there....that is how Fagin was played in London at the Palladium. |
I agree. Dodger is the one with the biggest accent.
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TR_Wolf
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There is NO SUCH ACCENT as "Standard British" !!
British accents include:
Scottish
Welsh
London BBC
London Cockney
Mancunian
Brummy (Birmingham)
Cornish
Scouse (Liverpool)
Geordie (Newcastle)
Northern Irish
and many others!
...and they're all different!
Im sorry but as an Englishman I find it insulting when people talk about "British" accents or a standard "English Accent". Too many Americans think the only "British accents" are Cockney or BBC London English and that's it, and that London is the only place there IS in England!
Mr Bumble and Widow Corney should have Birmingham Brummy accents (like the more recent film).
Oliver and Fagin should have a London accent but not overly posh, and not Cockney, Fagin should have a slight Jewish sound to his accent.
Bill Sykes, Nancy and Dodger should have Cockney accents (but please practice them before trying them, so many bad Cockney accents!)
So yeah with Fagin, give him an English/London accent, you can do him a TINY BIT Cockney if you want, but nowhere near as much as Nancy or Dodger.
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London_Mungojerrie
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| TR_Wolf wrote: | There is NO SUCH ACCENT as "Standard British" !!
British accents include:
Scottish
Welsh
London BBC
London Cockney
Mancunian
Brummy (Birmingham)
Cornish
Scouse (Liverpool)
Geordie (Newcastle)
Northern Irish
and many others!
...and they're all different!
Im sorry but as an Englishman I find it insulting when people talk about "British" accents or a standard "English Accent". Too many Americans think the only "British accents" are Cockney or BBC London English and that's it, and that London is the only place there IS in England!
Mr Bumble and Widow Corney should have Birmingham Brummy accents (like the more recent film).
Oliver and Fagin should have a London accent but not overly posh, and not Cockney, Fagin should have a slight Jewish sound to his accent.
Bill Sykes, Nancy and Dodger should have Cockney accents (but please practice them before trying them, so many bad Cockney accents!)
So yeah with Fagin, give him an English/London accent, you can do him a TINY BIT Cockney if you want, but nowhere near as much as Nancy or Dodger. |
Well put TR_WOLF. It is so funny when you have all these Americans who think of "English" as posh London accents. lol
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Broadwaybelter
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I know that in the movie Fagin doesnt have an "accent", but since he is a lower class man in England I would suggest a cockney accent. Did you say that you are getting paid for a high school production? Do you not go to the high and school and are being brought in? Just curious. I think you should take the part, being offered a role like that is a great honor, and if you are planning on becoming a professional actor ( as long as you don't have your equity card yet) high school/ communinty theater looks good on your reseme.
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TR_Wolf
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| Broadwaybelter wrote: | | I know that in the movie Fagin doesnt have an "accent", but since he is a lower class man in England I would suggest a cockney accent. Did you say that you are getting paid for a high school production? Do you not go to the high and school and are being brought in? Just curious. I think you should take the part, being offered a role like that is a great honor, and if you are planning on becoming a professional actor ( as long as you don't have your equity card yet) high school/ communinty theater looks good on your reseme. |
Again... NO!!!
There are thousands of "lower class men in England" who ARENT BLOODY COCKNEY!!
You only have a Cockney accent if you are born within a certain area in London!
Fagin can be SLIGHTLY Cockney, but nowhere near as much as Dodger, Nancy or Bill. Just do him with a Southern/London English accent with a Jewish accent to it.
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_mimi
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I'm just about to audition for my school's performance of the show and I've been encouraging my friend to audition for the role of Fagin- so we listened to a couple of recordings and his accent surely does sound Jewish.
Also, in the original novel, they call Fagin "the Jew".
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Apollyon
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I'm auditioning to be in a Youth production of Oliver to be put on in November
I'm one of the older members of the current cast and I plan to audition for Fagin and Sykes, although I'd rather have Fagin.
I have seen a few versions of Fagin, one, which was Jonathan Pryce at the Paladium who does Fagin with a Slightly Cock'ney Accent with Yiddish thrown in (I'm English so I know about all the different English accents before someone gets at me) and then in another production of Oliver where Fagin was Slightly Yiddish sounding. I however don't really know how to play him, so which accent do you think is best to use and alsohow old do you think Fagin should be played as? all we know is he hasn't reached 70 yet. I perfure the slightly younger versions of Fagin but I wondered about people's oppinions.
thanks
Nb. And Yes I'm New...
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Roger's Chica
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I know that the posts that I'm going to replying to are old, but I very rarely come to this site anymore and I wanted to put in a word of defense for my neighbours to the South.
Now, we know that there isn't just one accent in Britian. For goodness sakes, there's about 6 different regional accents in Lord of the Rings alone. However, when one learns dialects, one will learn an accent that is sometimes referred to as "Standard British" or "RP". This is the accent with which most of your national newcasters and the like will speak with so that it transmits across the country. America has a similar "newscaster" accent. These inflections and such will get you through basic shows that take place across the pond, as long as there aren't any specific regional references or other problems.
I'm fairly sure that this is what the original poster was referring to, rather than saying that he had been taught the "one British accent there is".
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TR_Wolf
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| Roger's Chica wrote: | I know that the posts that I'm going to replying to are old, but I very rarely come to this site anymore and I wanted to put in a word of defense for my neighbours to the South.
Now, we know that there isn't just one accent in Britian. For goodness sakes, there's about 6 different regional accents in Lord of the Rings alone. However, when one learns dialects, one will learn an accent that is sometimes referred to as "Standard British" or "RP". This is the accent with which most of your national newcasters and the like will speak with so that it transmits across the country. America has a similar "newscaster" accent. These inflections and such will get you through basic shows that take place across the pond, as long as there aren't any specific regional references or other problems.
I'm fairly sure that this is what the original poster was referring to, rather than saying that he had been taught the "one British accent there is". |
There's RP and Standard English, not Standard British as Britain is also Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
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Roger's Chica
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| TR_Wolf wrote: |
There's RP and Standard English, not Standard British as Britain is also Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. |
I know that. Unfortunately, you will find it referred to as "Standard British" on tapes and sometimes in classes and other such things. It's totally inaccurate (much like lots of things that'll happen in the world of entertainment... sometimes as a history double major you want to cry) but it's something that you sometimes have to accept and know that people will get what you are referring to if you say it.
I probably should have included in my first post that it will sometimes be called BBC English and Standard English as well as the other two names I mentioned depending on where and from whom you learn dialects. (And there will be variations... but not necessarily ones that an American audience will pick up on.)
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Apollyon
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| Apollyon wrote: | I'm auditioning to be in a Youth production of Oliver to be put on in November
I'm one of the older members of the current cast and I plan to audition for Fagin and Sykes, although I'd rather have Fagin.
I have seen a few versions of Fagin, one, which was Jonathan Pryce at the Paladium who does Fagin with a Slightly Cock'ney Accent with Yiddish thrown in (I'm English so I know about all the different English accents before someone gets at me) and then in another production of Oliver where Fagin was Slightly Yiddish sounding. I however don't really know how to play him, so which accent do you think is best to use and alsohow old do you think Fagin should be played as? all we know is he hasn't reached 70 yet. I perfure the slightly younger versions of Fagin but I wondered about people's oppinions.
thanks
Nb. And Yes I'm New... |
Some help with the above question would be nice, thankski
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sky's-story
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well this may help or may not.................. i recently got to the final 2 to play fagin in a school production (NOT musical btw just oliver twist...and yes i am a girl but its an all-girls school). i was sooo worried about the accent but really by watching the Roman Polanski and David Lean film versions i realised that the yiddish accent isn't necessarily that important. yeh it shows his background but it's really a fagin accent that its all about (sorry.... lol) and you just need to get into the mood. his voice is fairly high for a guy and by keeping the tongue quite far forward you can achieve that thickness thats so distinctive. basically i found it was a case of watching and learning, and hobbling round the living room like a fool LOL! hope thats a bit of a help....and yes, the girl who got fagin WAS a redhead (unlike me) and did look far more like fagin (which i guess in some ways is a complement......) good luck!
p.s.... in my mind fagin's about...60. or maybe younger - in those days 40+ was seen as pretty damn old..
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Apollyon
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Thanks, thats why the age tthing confused me cause I couldn't really work out whether Fagin should be old by today's standards or old by the standards of about 110 years ago.
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scottinkc
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| TR_Wolf wrote: | Mr Bumble and Widow Corney should have Birmingham Brummy accents (like the more recent film).
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I'm sorry to gravedig, but I read this a while back and was curious about it. A quick perusal of Oliver Twist says nothing about the workhouse being located in Birmingham. In fact, Sowerberry says that he has to get his brass handles by canal FROM Birmingham.
On the other hand, the workhouse is not in London, because Oliver tells Dodger that it's his first time in London. Although it's my understanding (Londoners will correct me, I'm sure) that this could still mean someplace close by, like Chelsea or south of the river.
So, if not a Birmingham accent, what accent would be most appropriate for these two?
--Scott
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actor
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I hate it when Bumble and Corney use cockney accents.
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