Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| TR_Wolf |
PET PEEVE - "Erik"This may just be me, and dont attack me for this, but I find it really annoying when people here refer to the Phantom as "Erik" ... yes it's in the book or whatever but it's not in the musical, in the musical he is simply the opera ghost or the phantom, and I think he should just be called the phantom instead of "Erik".Am I alone in this? Sorry if I've annoyed anyone. I wont start on my frustration at Cats fans coupling up characters and making them family members etc... |
||||||
| tropical_azure |
Well, I am one of those that does refer to the Phantom as Erik and one of my reasons would be that the musical is based on Leroux's book therefore I enjoy making a linkage between the two via his name. Also, "Erik" is a darned sight easier to type at speed than "The Phantom"  .
And nope, you did not offend me at least, heh. We're all entitled to our own opinions afterall. *smiles* Hugs ~Rachel |
||||||
| (Evan) |
Re: PET PEEVE - "Erik"
No, you're not alone at all. There are lots of us. Evan |
||||||
| dramatic_mizfit |
I think it totally depends on which you like better -- book or musical. If you prefer the musical, it's always gonna be Phantom, and if you like the book, it's always gonna be Erik.
I like saying Erik when I'm talking about the musical because really, that is essentially the character's name, but the response I get most often to that is, "Huh? Who's Erik?" so I tend to call him Phantom most of the time. |
||||||
| RainyCrystal |
I like to call him Erik because well, in my mind, that is the name of "the Phantom of the opera", and to me, "Erik" is also simpler and shorter to say than "the Phantom".
As for Cats fans coupling up characters and making them family members, i personally don't see anything wrong with it. I mean, it's just like writing fan fics! Also, I think that the show actually wants fans to do these, thus why they made so many things open and completely up to the audience's interpretation. ~Sissi |
||||||
| whiskas333 |
I call him Phantom, but if someone calls him Erik I know what their talking about.
|
||||||
| Kad |
I find it annoying, too. I see the musical and the novel as two seperate entities. | ||||||
| Miss Daae |
Whew! I am glad I'm not the only one. I too dislike people calling Andrew Lloyd Webber's Phantom "Erik", and I have disliked it for a long time. In fact, Gary Mauer has said that he thinks it is silly to romanticize him by calling him that. He says his character has no name. I totally agree. In the novel, yeah, he's Erik. But not in the musical.
Thanks for posting this, by the way. |
||||||
| AngMisto8182 |
Same here. I was always like "Erik? Erik who?" before I read the book, and even when I talk about Leroux's novel, "The Phantom" still sounds better than "Erik." It just kind of bothers me when people refer to him as "Erik" when discussing the musical because in the musical, he doesn't have that name. | ||||||
| mizzie |
Same here. Whenever someone called him Erik I would become completely confused, but then I read a little bit of the book and I know what they are talking about. I usually call him the Phantom around others, just because they recognize that name more, however I do like to use the name Erik with one friend who thinks she's the queen of the opera house....she smiles and nods when I use his name....but I know my evil is working....
Muhahahaha! mizzie♪♪ |
||||||
| whiskas333 |
I was on a Phantom store, and there was a pillow that said somethin' 'bout Erik. I pratically SPAZZED trying to figure out WHO Erik was! Than my awesome cousin told me  
|
||||||
| Cherasa |
Generally, when I refer to the musical phantom he is "the Phantom", and the book phantom is "Erik". However, I do rarely call them both "Erik" for the sake of convenience when typing -- it also depends on the context. When making connections between the book and the musical, I generally refer to the Character at Large as "Erik". | ||||||
| RainyCrystal |
Another thing is, i knew the book before i knew the musical, so, "Erik" came long before "the Phantom". I've always referred to him as "Erik", so, when the musical came along, i really didn't feel like changing it, and go through the trouble of using a separate name for each version, when it's supposedly the same character..
And i was really surprised that they didn't use "Erik" in the musical. ~Sissi |
||||||
| minesayrejoice |
I personally like people using both, but never have used Erik. The only "idiots" I see are those who can't accept which one a person wants to use. | ||||||
| Quique |
Well, I already gave my opinion on this in another thread, so I'll just quote that response...
|
||||||
| B3TA07 |
I don't call him Erik, but is that in the movie?
I knew his name was Erik, but I haven't read the book or even looked into it before. I probably just heard someone call him that. |
||||||
| TR_Wolf |
His name is only unveiled as "Erik" in the book, never in the film or the stage musical, so my peeve is people calling him Erik when 'Erik' is nothing to do with the musical, just the book. |
||||||
| RainyCrystal |
To me, it is really the most trivial thing to have a peeve about. Who cares what people call him? As long as people know whom you're referring to, then who cares? The musical is based on the book, and Erik and The Phantom of the Opera are the same person. So, what exactly is the huge difference? I've been calling him "Erik" years before I even knew that there was a musical of The Phantom of the Opera. So, when I got to know the musical, I just continued calling this character Erik. Is there really a problem with that? ~Sissi |
||||||
| TR_Wolf |
No offence but I dont care if it's trivial, most pet peeves are, I also have a pet peeve with people not knowing how to correctly use a posessive S, that's trivial too but it's still a peeve for me. And once again, my view is that The Phantom is never named Erik in the movie or musical, and I just dont like it when people keep calling him Erik in relation to the latter. I dont have to justify myself, it's just my peeve. |
||||||
| Sairin |
The Phantom's name is Erik. Deal with it. | ||||||
| TR_Wolf |
No, The Opera Ghost's name is Erik in the original Gaston Leroux book "The Phantom of the Opera", The Phantom in the musical and the film is not called Erik as it has never been mentioned, and I have a peeve of people naming the musical Phantom "Erik", when that name is never associated with him in it.... deal with it. |
||||||
| RainyCrystal |
Some people like to call the Phantom Erik, deal with it. And we have read the book, deal with it. The musical is written from the book, and the Phantom and Erik are the same character. Deal with it. ~Sissi |
||||||
| Sairin |
It's based on a book now? Some Christines address the Phantom in the ALW musical as Erik. The Y/K and Ken Hill musicals both address the Phantom as Erik. So you're wrong. |
||||||
| AngMisto8182 |
Erm... does it really matter this much? | ||||||
| RainyCrystal |
Stop trying to do the old trick of being a jerk on every forum, you little bore. And come up with something new for once. ~Sissi |
||||||
| minesayrejoice |
Go, Sissi! | ||||||
| RainyCrystal |
If no one has told you this yet, then I'm telling you right now: neither do you. And why do I need to be original here when someone can do it for me? I have better uses for my creativity than on an online message board. ~Sissi |
||||||
| RainyCrystal |
*Yawn* Find a better, more creative expression. I've seen this one far too many times, and it's getting way old. ~Sissi |
||||||
| minesayrejoice |
Just because I can't come up with something more intellectual doesn't mean you have to open your trap. |
||||||
| !the-phantom! |
i dont really care.................lol | ||||||
| Miss Daae |
[quote="Sairin"][quote="TR_Wolf"][quote="Sairin"]The Phantom's name is Erik. Deal with it.[/quote]
No, The Opera Ghost's name is Erik in the original Gaston Leroux book "The Phantom of the Opera", The Phantom in the musical and the film is not called Erik as it has never been mentioned, and I have a peeve of people naming the musical Phantom "Erik", when that name is never associated with him in it.... deal with it.[/quote] It's based on a book now? Some Christines address the Phantom in the ALW musical as Erik. The Y/K and Ken Hill musicals both address the Phantom as Erik. So you're wrong.[/quote] When have ALW Christines called him Erik? The Final Lair? I am surprised they are allowed to. |
||||||
| Uber Goober |
I don't find anything wrong with calling him Erik. To me, that's his name whether it's mentioned or not. Sure the the book and musical are two different things, but one is based on the other. Same with Les Miserables. Just because Monseigneur Bienvenu is referred to as The Bishop of Digne doesn't mean that he doesn't have a name in the musical. That's just my take on it though. | ||||||
| Sairin |
I don't know when or which Christines, cuz I've forgotten, but it has definitely happened more than once. PFN can tell you. | ||||||
| Sultan of Persia |
I say Erik just because it is the formal way to refer to him. Book came first, bitches. | ||||||
| PhantomGirl |
I just think it's personal preference. I don't like calling him Erik, because it takes away from his mystery........if anyone gets what I'm saying. | ||||||
| Miss Daae |
[quote="Sultan of Persia"]I say Erik just because it is the formal way to refer to him. Book came first, bitches.[/quote]
First, there's no need for the language. Second, "formal" way? He wasn't a real man, and he would not come back and haunt those who choose not to call him Erik. Just because the musical is based on the novel doesn't mean it's exact. The secret was changed in "The Woman in White", and that's based on a novel. In Kopit and Yeston, yes, he is called Erik. |
||||||
| Sultan of Persia |
He's Erik, because the novel is canon....bitches... | ||||||
| PhantomGirl |
Please don't curse, it makes you look less intelligent. And could you explain yourself? |
||||||
| Sultan of Persia |
alright, I'm done swearing. Leroux created Erik, so what he says goes. Canon = the definitive source of information. | ||||||
| PhantomGirl |
But isn't Webber's musical a canon as well? And in that, he's not refered to as Erik, just as the Phantom. | ||||||
| Quique |
I don't think anyone is telling anyone to quit calling him "Erik." If there is someone demanding that everyone refer to him as "The Phantom," then aren't they guilty of the exact same thing; telling others what the Phantom's name SHOULD be?
It may seem like I've done just that, but I haven't. All I've said is how I find it very irksome when a Phantom fan demands that EVERYONE refer to him as "Erik." More power to you if you want to call him that, just please refrain from demanding that others do the same. Not everyone is guilty of that, but I've come across one too many of these nuts to find it incredibly annoying by now. And for the record, I'm not a Phantom hater. I'm a Les Mis fanatic, but I've seen Phantom nearly 30 times, several times more than the object of my obsession that is Les Mis. So there is no maliciousness here on my part, just rational advice. 
|
||||||
| Moci |
If the musical was canon, then the sequel ALW was going to do would be canon too. I don't think anyone would want that. 
|
||||||
| PhantomGirl |
*shudder* I see your point. There's going to be a sequel? |
||||||
| Moci |
Was going to be. I think he's given up on the idea though, but I believe that the story him and a friend came up with has been released http://www.phantomoftheopera.com/cdaae/pofmanhattan.html I also think that one of the songs that was going to be in it was 'The Heart is Slow to Learn', but I'm not certain. EDIT: http://www.playbill.com/news/article/49012.html |
||||||
| RainyCrystal |
As far as I've heard, ALW wanting to do a sequel of POTO is only a rumour. So far, it's not happening.
~Sissi |
||||||
| PhantomGirl |
He shouldn't try to make a good thing better. "The Phantom in Manhattan"? Oh please. | ||||||
| Moci |
It's not happening now, but when it was in development it was more than a rumour. He collaborated on the storyline, now published as a novel and had written some music, but I think he came to his senses and realised it wouldn't work. |
||||||
| TR_Wolf |
Hi. Dont tell me Im wrong. OFFICIALLY in the ALW version, the Phantom's name is not revealed, Ive never known a Christine call him Erik for this reason, plus I just dont imagine ALW allowing that. And equally Im not referring to the other musicals, just the ALW one, which this thread is about, in which the Phantom's name is not revealed, my pet peeve is people addressing the ALW Phantom as "Erik" in an almost elitest way. You cant tell me Im wrong, it's my OPINION, just like me not liking Cats fans pairing up Cats as couples and family, and me not liking a female to portray Hedwig in Hedwig and the Angry Inch. Im not condemning anyone, it's just a peeve! |
||||||
| Miss Daae |
Same here. It is a peeve.
Sometimes, the "Erik" thing does seem elitist. |
||||||
| RainyCrystal |
I would think that someone like ALW would have enough brain cells to know enough...
~Sissi |
||||||
| WinterTears |
I'll always call him Erik. There may be some people who argue with it, but I read all three books long before seeing the musical, and I'll always think of the Phantom as my beloved Erik.
|
||||||
| PhantomGirl |
All three books? I thought there was only one. 
|
||||||
| AngMisto8182 |
Yeah.... to the best of my knowledge, there is only one... Anyway, as far as the whole "Erik/Phantom" thing goes... is it really that big of a deal...? I usually just call him the Phantom, whether I'm referring to the book or the musical... because that way people will definitely know who I'm talking about, because if I'm talking about the book to someone who hasn't read it, they're bound to go, "Erik? Erik who?" and it just gets all confusing. But like I said, is it really that big a deal...? |
||||||
| Sairin |
I never said you were wrong for not liking it. You said that Erik was never used in the ALW version, and that was wrong. Maybe not officially, but you didn't say that in the first post. Anyway, I just like arguing.
|
||||||
| TR_Wolf |
Heh. Unofficially some Christines could very well call the Phantom "Jessica" , doesnt mean that he's known as Jessica in the ALW one just cos its unofficial 
|
||||||
| BroadwayBud |
People referring to the phantom as "Erik" drives me crazy. I just don't like the book at all. | ||||||
| RainyCrystal |
That is REALLY something worth going crazy about...
~Sissi |
||||||
| PhantomGirl |
Why don't you like the book? |
||||||
| BroadwayBud |
I just don't like the way it's written. It's almost like reading a documentary about the strange happenings at the opera house. I really tried to like it, but there wasn't enough "story" for me...I hope that makes sense. I can't really think of how to say what I mean...
|
||||||
| Miss Daae |
I don't totally love the book, either. It seems oddly written. | ||||||
| BroadwayBud |
Exactly! That is what I was trying to say  It was oddly written. Thanks Miss Daae!
|
||||||
| Lady Jemima |
I think the name "Erik" gives the character a certain dimesion that the musical tends to shy away from. It gives the Phantom an aspect of humanity in a non-human world, and that paradox, in my opinion, is part of the reason why Christine was drawn to him. Which I think explains some peoples reasoning for calling him by his "book-given" name. That said, I'm pretty impartial, myself.
I'm not sure if you are referring to fanfic or not (because fanfic sometimes goes over the top with the family thing), but in the musical, certain characters are related to each other; T.S. Eliot's poems, ALW, lyrics, and the actors themselves have verified that. And fans don't really "make families;" a lot of discussion focuses on of which cats are mates, because those paticular relationships are important to the Jellicle Tribe, and thus to the storyline.
|
||||||
| TR_Wolf |
Verified? How? The TS Elliot poems dont mention any romantic or family connections, the show doesnt apart from obvious things like Tugger and Bomby, but as for non main characters, that varies, and isnt solid, and Ive not known ALW actually mention any relationships between characters really.
But yeah I meant more like fanfics where they say that this person is the uncle to this person, and married to this person, and their children are these characters who are in love with these characters and had children who are (made up characters) etc. I just dont like that. Then again I dont like fan fiction. |
||||||
| nicnikniki |
Two points.
1. Isn't this a musical forum? And in the Phantom of the Opera musical, the phantom doesn't have a name - therefore in this forum, shouldn't people refer to him as Phantom? If there's a forum for the novel, that's where it's appropriate to call him Erik. By all means, call him whatever you want, but don't come down on people who call him 'phantom' because after all this is a forum FOR THE MUSICAL. 2. In "Beauty and the Beast", the beast's official name is Adam. However he is never known as Adam in the Disney musical, so in a forum for the disney movie if people referred to him as Adam, it would be considered elitist / exclusive. Does anyone see the parallel I'm trying to draw here?? |
||||||
| Phantomb |
Ooh, nice example.
I entirely agree with the original poster, this is a forum for the MUSICAL not the muddled, badly-written book. Let's face it; it's a vast majority of people who know the story have learnt it from the musical, not the book and not the movies, as popular as they were. The protagonist is The Phantom. Not "Erik". Go to a book forum if you want to use that because there's no such character in this show. |
||||||
| tommo2k |
I totally agree. This is a forum for the musical, not the book. The only reason people call him Erik is because they want to show off that they have read the book and think this makes them understand the phantom much more. It is a bit sad to use Erik in this forum as it shows you don't know the difference between versions!!! | ||||||
| Fantine |
Who cares? Forums are about the opinions of people on diverse subjects. If people want to talk about the novel, why shouldn't they?
And I am sure that everybody gets who Erik is. I hadn't even seen POTO and I knew who people meant. Why all the fuss about a name? |
||||||
| SimplyElymas |
Hi. I'm a Phantom of the Opera phan myself, big time, and I am consequently a complete whore for Leroux. I much prefer Leroux to Webber, partly because Leroux!Erik is a much more interesting character than Webber!Phantom. I'm merely saying not to go after the book. Yes, the book is, by today's standards, written rather oddly. But you must keep in mind that that is the fault of the culture shift. If it were, as you say, "muddled," or badly written, it wouldn't have hung on so long. I, personally, adore Leroux - far more than the ALW musical.
I think this controversy over a name is more than a little silly. I don't think it's elitist to refer to the Phantom as Erik. I mean, even the least educated little phangirls over at phantomoftheopera.com call him that and know his name. So no, no, we're not trying to be elitist if we call him that. We're trying to save keyboard anxiety.
That said, I think it would be practical if we simply referred to Webber Phantom as Phantom and Leroux Phantom as Erik. But don't diss the Leroux. 'S canon. Bow down, bitches. (I don't wish to offend anyone - but I must point out, if anyone feels the need to criticize language again, that profanity is the refuge of the illiterate ----.) |
||||||
| KayMichelle |
This is such an odd conversation!
You guys do know that about the FIRST Phantom show, right? That show has the same story, a little more detail about who the Phantom is, a sort of prequel in a way. Yes, in "The Phantom" which Weber shamelessly upstaged, there is much more detail about "Erik", and has deeply emotional scenes about his mother and father. There is also exquisite music as well, like "My True Love" and "Home" and "My Mother Bore Me." and of course, the heart wrenching tearjerker, "You are my Son". I just saw this show at the Rose Theater in Westminster, California, sung by the a magnificient cast, local talent just out of high school, on their way to Broadway. Most of the audience cried like babies. I didn't expect to like it, because I love Webers so much, but it was incredible! |
||||||
| KayMichelle |
Here, you can read about it here:
http://www.rosecentertheater.com/calendar/2007/phantom.html It's not just the book, it's an entirely different show. |
||||||
| Sweeney Hyde |
Um...the last post on this thread was February 10, 2006...a lot of these people don't post anymore...and most people, especially phans, are aware of Koppit and Yestoff's Phantom. | ||||||
| Namiko Nakamura |
I happen to be a hardcore Cats fan, and I treasure the countless pairings and family relationships, and I believe some of them to be canon (Munkustrap or Alonzo x Demeter, depending on the production). However, I don't see a problem with hating them....same with "Erik." I accept Erik as the Phantom's name, though I tend to refer to him as "the Phantom." However, I do recall reading the book "The Complete Phantom of the Opera" and Michael Crawford himself referred to his character as "Erik." I say both are fine... |
||||||
| Luc |
Read the title of the website you're on. See it? That's why. |
||||||
| pish123c |
Re: PET PEEVE - "Erik"
I'm with you on that one. In the script he is not known as "Eric" he is known as "The Phantom" for Christs sake. To me, calling The Phantom "Eric" is like putting on a production of The Wizard of Oz and calling The Wicked Witch "Elphaba" |
||||||
| Orestes Fasting |
...except the part where the name 'Erik' had been around for about 70 years before the musical came about, whereas 'Elphaba' was invented for a spin-off/revisionist novel that came out waaay after the original Wizard of Oz. | ||||||
| the_persian |
it's not like the phantom in the musical's name is not Erik, they just don't call him that and his name is never mentioned, bu he is still Erik. |