Orestes Fasting
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Or, to put it another way: I'm left-handed. That's been pretty frowned upon by society for a long time, and it's technically my choice to write with the hand that's easiest for me instead of forcing myself to use the clumsy one. Just because I could write--badly--with my right hand, does that mean it's a choice to be left-handed? Just because they haven't isolated a gene to cause it, does that mean it's all in my head and up to me? Just because the left side is traditionally associated with evil and witchcraft, does that mean I'm wrong to exercise a natural predilection?
Saying you could go either way, so why doesn't everyone just suck it up and be straight, is like an ambidextrous person telling lefties to suck it up and produce beautiful calligraphy with the right hand.
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<3Wilson<3
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| candymancan wrote: | | Orestes Fasting wrote: | | candymancan wrote: | | Are you saying Heterosexualality isn't a choice either? Because I am pretty sure most people CHOOSE weather they are straight or not. |
Hahaha no.
Assuming you're male: is the thought of kissing a guy just as appealing as the thought of kissing a girl? Is your righteous indignation the only thing standing in your way? Or do you just find the thought of kissing guys gross?
Well gee, that's how lesbians feel about the thought of kissing a guy. And how gay men feel at the thought of kissing a girl.
(Reverse genders as needed if you're female, yadda yadda.) |
That is true... but I still think there is a choice though. I don't believe anyone was born Gay or Straight I think the way they were brought up and how they view each gender and how it effects them is more of how they choose.
That was probably way confusing... This is so hard to try to type down than actually say... It isn't translating very well from my head to computer... |
If it is due to upbringing as you said, why would anyone choose to go against how most people are brought up? Like you said earlier, homosexuality is not accepted by most people, so if your thought of upbringing was correct and everyone does make a choice, there would be no homosexuals because, according to your logic, they would have been taught that being homosexual was a sin and therefore would not be homosexual. On top of that, why would someone choose to be in a minority and treated so poorly by the rest of society? Homosexuality is no more of a choice than one's biological make-up.
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Lepitot
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candymancan asked if you would honestly not enjoy either way...so my answer:
I could have sex with a girl. Would I enjoy it? Probably.
Would I enjoy it nearly as much as with a guy? Heck no.
I mean, either way, you're likely to climax...which is naturally going to be enjoyable. But one is going to be much more enjoyable than the other. And, you don't choose which one that is.
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candymancan
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^^ Yes, but you can still CHOOSE
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Lepitot
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Yes, you can CHOOSE to lie to yourself. But you'll go insane. Or you can choose to be true to yourself. That is the only choice. You can't deny that your attracted more to one sex than the other.
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candymancan
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: | Or, to put it another way: I'm left-handed. That's been pretty frowned upon by society for a long time, and it's technically my choice to write with the hand that's easiest for me instead of forcing myself to use the clumsy one. Just because I could write--badly--with my right hand, does that mean it's a choice to be left-handed? Just because they haven't isolated a gene to cause it, does that mean it's all in my head and up to me? Just because the left side is traditionally associated with evil and witchcraft, does that mean I'm wrong to exercise a natural predilection?
Saying you could go either way, so why doesn't everyone just suck it up and be straight, is like an ambidextrous person telling lefties to suck it up and produce beautiful calligraphy with the right hand. |
Yes, you can change to being a right handed person with practice. Yes, at first you would be clumsy, but the more you practice you could be just as good with your right hand as you are with your left hand.
So why doesn't every left-handed person change to be a right handed person or why doesn't every homosexual change to be straight? Because they choose to remain the way they are although changing to a straight person isn't easy, but it is possible, if you choose to do so.
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<3Wilson<3
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| candymancan wrote: | | Orestes Fasting wrote: | Or, to put it another way: I'm left-handed. That's been pretty frowned upon by society for a long time, and it's technically my choice to write with the hand that's easiest for me instead of forcing myself to use the clumsy one. Just because I could write--badly--with my right hand, does that mean it's a choice to be left-handed? Just because they haven't isolated a gene to cause it, does that mean it's all in my head and up to me? Just because the left side is traditionally associated with evil and witchcraft, does that mean I'm wrong to exercise a natural predilection?
Saying you could go either way, so why doesn't everyone just suck it up and be straight, is like an ambidextrous person telling lefties to suck it up and produce beautiful calligraphy with the right hand. |
Yes, you can change to being a right handed person with practice. Yes, at first you would be clumsy, but the more you practice you could be just as good with your right hand as you are with your left hand.
So why doesn't every left-handed person change to be a right handed person or why doesn't every homosexual change to be straight? Because they choose to remain the way they are although changing to a straight person isn't easy, but it is possible, if you choose to do so. |
That is the most obnoxious thing I have heard. I am straight and I could not choose to be homosexual, I do not find other women attractive. You do not choose to be homosexual, you do not choose to have people disrespect you, you do not choose who you will fall in love with, it just happens. Why don't you go out and choose to become homosexual and come back on here and tell us what that was like. Until you choose to play both sides of the fence, you really have nothing to compare you logic of choice to do you?
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Lepitot
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You turn yourself gay. Then tell me it's possible to change your orientation.
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<3Wilson<3
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| Lepitot wrote: | | You turn yourself gay. Then tell me it's possible to change your orientation. |
Exactly.
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moongoddess82
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| candymancan wrote: |
Yes, you can change to being a right handed person with practice. Yes, at first you would be clumsy, but the more you practice you could be just as good with your right hand as you are with your left hand.
So why doesn't every left-handed person change to be a right handed person or why doesn't every homosexual change to be straight? Because they choose to remain the way they are although changing to a straight person isn't easy, but it is possible, if you choose to do so. |
Why should someone have to change just because the rest of the world has a notion that it is wrong? I think this should be the point of the change argument- even though I too believe that sexuality is not a choice, and that you can't "with practice" become more attracted to the opposite gender as society dictates. If you must believe that sexuality is changeable and a choice we can make, then why should homosexuals HAVE to change? There is nothing wrong with their sexuality- it is as natural as being heterosexual. Just the same as being left handed- currently it is awkward to be left handed but that is only because the world does not support left handed people as easily as it does right handed people- ie. with left handed scissors, ledgers, etc. There is nothing WRONG with being left handed- the world just makes it difficult for those who are left handed to remain so becuase they aren't the majority and therefore, not given as much support.
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Orestes Fasting
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| candymancan wrote: | | Orestes Fasting wrote: | Or, to put it another way: I'm left-handed. That's been pretty frowned upon by society for a long time, and it's technically my choice to write with the hand that's easiest for me instead of forcing myself to use the clumsy one. Just because I could write--badly--with my right hand, does that mean it's a choice to be left-handed? Just because they haven't isolated a gene to cause it, does that mean it's all in my head and up to me? Just because the left side is traditionally associated with evil and witchcraft, does that mean I'm wrong to exercise a natural predilection?
Saying you could go either way, so why doesn't everyone just suck it up and be straight, is like an ambidextrous person telling lefties to suck it up and produce beautiful calligraphy with the right hand. |
Yes, you can change to being a right handed person with practice. Yes, at first you would be clumsy, but the more you practice you could be just as good with your right hand as you are with your left hand.
So why doesn't every left-handed person change to be a right handed person or why doesn't every homosexual change to be straight? Because they choose to remain the way they are although changing to a straight person isn't easy, but it is possible, if you choose to do so. |
Learning to write with my right hand wouldn't make me not left-handed, it would make me someone who had forced herself to do something unnatural and fake right-handedness. Seems like an awful lot of pain and trouble to go to, just to hide something that doesn't hurt anyone.
Edit for clarification: What I'm saying is that while you can choose to change the behavior, the underlying predilection is not a choice--and forcing yourself to go against that predilection is more damaging than it's worth.
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candymancan
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| <3Wilson<3 wrote: | | candymancan wrote: | | Orestes Fasting wrote: | | candymancan wrote: | | Are you saying Heterosexualality isn't a choice either? Because I am pretty sure most people CHOOSE weather they are straight or not. |
Hahaha no.
Assuming you're male: is the thought of kissing a guy just as appealing as the thought of kissing a girl? Is your righteous indignation the only thing standing in your way? Or do you just find the thought of kissing guys gross?
Well gee, that's how lesbians feel about the thought of kissing a guy. And how gay men feel at the thought of kissing a girl.
(Reverse genders as needed if you're female, yadda yadda.) |
That is true... but I still think there is a choice though. I don't believe anyone was born Gay or Straight I think the way they were brought up and how they view each gender and how it effects them is more of how they choose.
That was probably way confusing... This is so hard to try to type down than actually say... It isn't translating very well from my head to computer... |
If it is due to upbringing as you said, why would anyone choose to go against how most people are brought up? Like you said earlier, homosexuality is not accepted by most people, so if your thought of upbringing was correct and everyone does make a choice, there would be no homosexuals because, according to your logic, they would have been taught that being homosexual was a sin and therefore would not be homosexual. On top of that, why would someone choose to be in a minority and treated so poorly by the rest of society? Homosexuality is no more of a choice than one's biological make-up. |
Sorry I didn't see this post before.
That is part of the influence as well when you are being brought up but there is more to the equation. The way you see people differs for you. The one thing you can't change is the way you view each gender. But the way you decide to keep looking at that gender is your choice. If you choose to look at Men more than Women because you like them more. That preference of choice will only grow with more time. Or if you choose to ignore these feelings that you don't want you can. It won't be easy, but it is possible. If you really want to choose to be that way. But again it won't be easy
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candymancan
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I didn't say anyone had to change because the world viewed it as wrong. I am merely saying, if they really wanted a change they could change. It wouldn't be easy, but it is possible. I still think it is a choice.
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moongoddess82
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| candymancan wrote: | | I didn't say anyone had to change because the world viewed it as wrong. I am merely saying, if they really wanted a change they could change. It wouldn't be easy, but it is possible. I still think it is a choice. |
If they don't have to change because the world thinks its wrong, why would they WANT to change? What reason would they have to change? I'm guessing that you mean that if it is difficult for them as homosexuals because they aren't accepted, that they can choose to change to avoid this problem. My point is that it shouldn't be the homosexuals who change their sexuality to suit what the world expects. They have just as much right to exist and live in whatever way they choose as any heterosexual. IF it is a choice as you so adamently believe- then they should be allowed to make that choice.
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dolbinau
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| candymancan wrote: | | I didn't say anyone had to change because the world viewed it as wrong. I am merely saying, if they really wanted a change they could change. It wouldn't be easy, but it is possible. I still think it is a choice. |
Source?
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candymancan
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| moongoddess82 wrote: | | candymancan wrote: | | I didn't say anyone had to change because the world viewed it as wrong. I am merely saying, if they really wanted a change they could change. It wouldn't be easy, but it is possible. I still think it is a choice. |
If they don't have to change because the world thinks its wrong, why would they WANT to change? What reason would they have to change? I'm guessing that you mean that if it is difficult for them as homosexuals because they aren't accepted, that they can choose to change to avoid this problem. My point is that it shouldn't be the homosexuals who change their sexuality to suit what the world expects. They have just as much right to exist and live in whatever way they choose as any heterosexual. IF it is a choice as you so adamently believe- then they should be allowed to make that choice. |
I never said they had to change, I am merely saying there is the choice. And I am not saying this because I am some right winged Conservative and Anti-Gay, cause I am gay.
| dolbinau wrote: | | candymancan wrote: | | I didn't say anyone had to change because the world viewed it as wrong. I am merely saying, if they really wanted a change they could change. It wouldn't be easy, but it is possible. I still think it is a choice. |
Source? |
Do I need a source? Or can I form my own opinion?
Edit: And even as a Gay, I believe that if I really wanted to be straight then I could. Do I want to no. That is a decision, a choice.
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dolbinau
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| Quote: | | Edit: And even as a Gay, I believe that if I really wanted to be straight then I could. Do I want to no. That is a decision, a choice. |
Well that answers everything I needed to know, but I'm sure there are others who don't feel they can.
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Beagle On Stage
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| dolbinau wrote: | | Quote: | | Edit: And even as a Gay, I believe that if I really wanted to be straight then I could. Do I want to no. That is a decision, a choice. |
Well that answers everything I needed to know, but I'm sure there are others who don't feel they can. |
I suppose those people are in the same boat as those who don't feel they can get past the views their parents put into their heads. Both deserve respect and compassion.
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Kiwi
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Man am I sad I didn't get into this whole thing earlier.
Just to sum up what I would have said, though: my brother is gay. He did not choose to be gay. He had shown clear signs of being gay since he was a little kid and didn't know what being gay was. When he finally accepted the fact that he was gay, he cried for a long time. He did not want to be gay, that's just what he is. Yes, he chose to accept his sexuality for what it was, but he did not choose for it to be what is was.
That little unmistakable fact/personal experience aside, why in the world would someone choose to like the same sex, and thus be hated by many people, given less rights, and in many ways treated as a second class citizen, when it would be just as easy for them to like the opposite sex and thus be allowed to get married and not be discriminated against and live happily ever after? It makes no sense. They don't change their ways because they can't change their ways because it is part of who they are.
Yes, like I said before, you can choose not to accept yourself, and there are those who do, and THAT is what often depends on one's upbringing (whether or not homosexuality is considered "acceptable" to one's parents, peers, etc.). I know an unfortunately large number of people who are most certainly gay but will never accept it because they're devoutly religious or something to the like and therefore have been taught that it's wrong/sinful/whatever, and so they will "choose" to act straight rather than be what they really are. It's a tragic prospect, really.
So it's not at all a matter of choosing to be a certain sexuality, it's a matter of choosing to accept your certain sexuality.
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Asha
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| candymancan wrote: | | Lepitot wrote: | There's a difference between how people view disapproval of smoking, and a disapproval of homosexuality.
People who disapprove of homosexuality are generally VERY disapproving of it. They think they are disgusting and going to hell.
I disapprove of smoking, but I do not think less of someone for smoking. It is their choice.
Funny, I'm less judgemental of someone's personal choice than people are of me for being homosexual, which isn't a choice. |
Are you saying Heterosexualality isn't a choice either? Because I am pretty sure most people CHOOSE weather they are straight or not.
And the reason smoking isn't as faught against as Homosexualality is, is because smoking is old. Most people used to do it and many continue to do so and don't find any problems with it.
Homosexualality, although technically isn't new. It has mostly been frowned upon through all of history.
You can't really compare smoking, something that has been socially accepted by mostly everyone through the years and Homosexuality. |
Seriously? I was honestly waiting for the long pause and then the lol or [/sarcasm]. Did you choose to be attracted to guys? Or do you just think that the choice comes in with acceptance? Because, then, I'd agree.
Acceptance is where the choice comes in. You're gay or you're not, straight or not, bi or not--- it's what you were born with. Can you choose to act differently, portray something not of your nature? SURE. Loads of people do it every day, unwilling to deal with society's view of them. And who could really blame them, with all the crap some have to go through... but I personally don't think it's healthy. I've seen lots of gay people try to date the opposite sex, try to deny who they really are-- and it's painful. Unhealthy, really. I think you can change how you act (which would be ridiculous to me, it's not hurting anyone), but who you are, your actual orientation? Nope.
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Kiwi
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| Asha wrote: |
Acceptance is where the choice comes in. You're gay or you're not, straight or not, bi or not--- it's what you were born with. Can you choose to act differently, portray something not of your nature? SURE. Loads of people do it every day, unwilling to deal with society's view of them. And who could really blame them, with all the crap some have to go through... but I personally don't think it's healthy. I've seen lots of gay people try to date the opposite sex, try to deny who they really are-- and it's painful. Unhealthy, really. I think you can change how you act (which would be ridiculous to me, it's not hurting anyone), but who you are, your actual orientation? Nope. |
Which is pretty much exactly what I just posted, but that's cool.
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Asha
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| Kiwi wrote: | | Asha wrote: |
Acceptance is where the choice comes in. You're gay or you're not, straight or not, bi or not--- it's what you were born with. Can you choose to act differently, portray something not of your nature? SURE. Loads of people do it every day, unwilling to deal with society's view of them. And who could really blame them, with all the crap some have to go through... but I personally don't think it's healthy. I've seen lots of gay people try to date the opposite sex, try to deny who they really are-- and it's painful. Unhealthy, really. I think you can change how you act (which would be ridiculous to me, it's not hurting anyone), but who you are, your actual orientation? Nope. |
Which is pretty much exactly what I just posted, but that's cool. |
Yeah, I definitely didn't read your post. Just quoted what I wanted to talk about and went with it. And now that I read yours.... I guess I just elaborated on a particular point of yours.
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Kiwi
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It's fine, just pointing it out...I'm glad you agree with me 
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Kiwi
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| candymancan wrote: |
Homosexualality, although technically isn't new. It has mostly been frowned upon through all of history.
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Actually, homosexuality was accepted in many ancient cultures, and in Greece, which was mentioned, homosexuality was not only accepted, but thought of as the highest form of relationship. It wasn't until the rise and spread of Christianity, according to which homosexuality is supposedly a sin, that it became unpopular in some cultures. Even today, there are plenty of countries and cultures that are accepting of homosexuality.
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Matthew
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The word sin is so silly and has lost all its original, true meaning.
I'll quote Eckhart Tolle when I get my book back.
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Beagle On Stage
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Homosexuality was actually not viewed in ancient Greece the way it's being portrayed in this thread. It was considered good if you were the top. If you were the bottom, you were disgraced. Which is why they had to do it with prepubescent boys - because once they were men, it would be a supreme humiliation.
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Matthew
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beagle the scholar?
my teachers who studied ancient greece in depth would care to disagree with you
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Orestes Fasting
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| Beagle On Stage wrote: | | Homosexuality was actually not viewed in ancient Greece the way it's being portrayed in this thread. It was considered good if you were the top. If you were the bottom, you were disgraced. Which is why they had to do it with prepubescent boys - because once they were men, it would be a supreme humiliation. |
You're mixing up the Greeks and the Romans.
Greek pederasty involved a mentor/student relationship between a grown man and an adolescent--not prepubescent--boy. The entire thing was a rite of passage, sexuality included, and the most sought-after eromenoi were courageous and athletic and generally worthy of respect in addition to being hot pieces of Greek ass. No disgrace or humiliation involved. It was all tied up in the devaluation of women too: women were for procreation; only men were worthy of love, respect, and meaningful sex0ring.
The Romans though... yeah, pretty much.
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Beagle On Stage
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It's been a long time, so I could be wrong...but I never studied Rome, so I don't know where I would have gotten that.
Even so, I still have the picture of Greek ruins if I need to brandish it yet again. Just because the Greeks may have done it doesn't necessarily validate it.
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Trevor reincarnate
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This is boring me.
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Beagle On Stage
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Would you like a gin and sin?
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Matthew
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beagle you look a lot like psyches.. are you two related?
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Trevor reincarnate
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| Beagle On Stage wrote: | | Would you like a gin and sin? |
Just gin, thanks. You seem to have the hookups.
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Kiwi
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| Matthew wrote: | The word sin is so silly and has lost all its original, true meaning.
I'll quote Eckhart Tolle when I get my book back. |
It's not like I'm saying I think it's a sin, but that is how many Christians interpreted the Bible, saying specifically that it's "a sin against God." I've had enough little debates about the homosexuality topic to know that that's the entire reason behind why many people are homophobic. I'm an atheist, I don't really know that much about what the Bible says, but I know what Christians say about what it says.
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Mistress
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I don't get why something so natural to a person is considered bad and a sin...they can't help it. We might as well just stop all this bull and learn to accept the people for the way they are. I'm actually hoping that the Liberals get relected and bring up the gay Marriage thing again (Go Canada!)
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Kiwi
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As far as legislature or for president? None of the presidential candidates are flat out "for gay marriage," unfortunately, so if you're talking about presidents then that's not a likely scenario. Even if you're talking about legislature actually it's not that likely a scenario. I think too many people at this point have deemed being for gay marriage as a black mark on their political record, and thus they'd be too afraid to bring up the issue again for fear of losing face with the more conservative voters. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
I agree, I think it should be legal, for sure, I'm just saying it's pretty unlikely at this point... 
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Mistress
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I'm taking about CANADIAN politics...The Liberals were actually ready to pass legislature, or already had passed it legalizing Gay Marriage. But then they got kicked out by a vote of no confidence (We have like 4 federal political parties, and for the most part, we usually end up having a minority government with the combined opposition way outweighing the governing party) and the Conservatives got elected in (minority, again, so their bound to fall some time soon) and nixed the legislation, so no more gay marriage. I'm sure that when re-election comes, if the Liberals and Dion win, they'll bring the Gay Marriage thing back up and try to pass the law again.
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Kragey
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| Kiwi wrote: | | ...but I know what Christians say about what it says. |
I'm not trying to be pretentious or snitty, but for the record, that's like saying, "I know what French think" or "I know what Hindus say about what the Vedas say." Even within a unified sect, people have wildly different opinions about what their religious text(s) says, especially Christians. I'm a Christian and I've written essay upon essay about how the Bible says nothing solid about homosexuality, while other Christians have written equal amounts about what it DOES say.
I get that you're probably generalizing, but homophobia isn't that common among average Christians, despite the craziness depicted on TV.
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Kragey
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| Beagle On Stage wrote: | | Even so, I still have the picture of Greek ruins if I need to brandish it yet again. Just because the Greeks may have done it doesn't necessarily validate it. |
Just curious: are you saying that ancient Greek civilization failed because of homosexuality? Because actually, there were many factors--mostly economic and political--that lead to those ruins, and every civilization will fall eventually.
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lesmisloony
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| Kragey wrote: | | Kiwi wrote: | | ...but I know what Christians say about what it says. |
I'm not trying to be pretentious or snitty, but for the record, that's like saying, "I know what French think" or "I know what Hindus say about what the Vedas say." Even within a unified sect, people have wildly different opinions about what their religious text(s) says, especially Christians. I'm a Christian and I've written essay upon essay about how the Bible says nothing solid about homosexuality, while other Christians have written equal amounts about what it DOES say.
I get that you're probably generalizing, but homophobia isn't that common among average Christians, despite the craziness depicted on TV. |
Word. I'm a Christian, and I'm frankly equally apathetic about homosexuality and abortion (sorry to drag in another topic), but I have the same view on both: if you don't like it, don't do it. And mind your business. Other Christians have no right to go around condemning others because of their practises, or to go around saying they're better than others because they don't do these things. The Bible sez that upon reaching heaven you'll be judged as harshly as you judge others.
And I'm not going to act like certain sanctimonious members of this forum (judgement, I know  ) and pretend that I'm able to act that way all the time. I believe that you shouldn't judge others, but I still do it pretty often. And then feel guilty. Ish. Like in this paragraph.
My point. Is that some Christians are self-righteous jerks who make me really unhappy. And some are cool laid-back liberal types (*high fives Kragey*).
The most popular opinion I've heard from other Christians is that homosexuality is a sin, but it's no worse than any other sin (think gluttony, lying, whatever). Because the Bible also sez there is no worst sin. So anyone who makes a judgement (SIN) on homosexuality is as "bad" as they are.
As for me, like I said... I have no problems at all with homosexuality. And I love Jesus. It's possible for both to happen at once.
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Kragey
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As for the comparison between homosexuality and the hand you write with...I'm no doctor/psychologist, but I've learned in several classes that the hand you write with isn't genetically determined, it's just a personal preference. That's why they tell you not to put the pen in the child's hand, they'll just pick it up. If it was genetically determined, you couldn't force a child to write with the other hand and have their genes change. Yes, they could probably "get used" to writing with the other hand, but it wouldn't be comfortable or natural.
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Trevor reincarnate
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| Kragey wrote: | | I'm a Christian and I've written essay upon essay about how the Bible says nothing solid about homosexuality, while other Christians have written equal amounts about what it DOES say. |
You don't happen to have any of these essays you could send to me, do you?
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Kragey
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| Trevor reincarnate wrote: | | Kragey wrote: | | I'm a Christian and I've written essay upon essay about how the Bible says nothing solid about homosexuality, while other Christians have written equal amounts about what it DOES say. |
You don't happen to have any of these essays you could send to me, do you? |
Actually, no. I'm stuck on my laptop until May, and I only keep primary digital back-ups on my flash drive.
I managed to lose one of my favorite ones, which I wrote back in high school. No clue how that happened, since I keep at least 2 copies of everything. O_o
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Kiwi
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You're right, I should have said some Christians. Matthew said something about the word sin being misused in one of my posts, so I elaborated by saying that Christians condemn homosexuality by saying it's a sin against God. You're right, though, I should have said "many Christians who are against homosexuality argue this..." which IS true. But the way I worded it was generalizing, which I didn't mean to do. I didn't notice because it was early and I wasn't paying close attention to what I was saying. My apologies.
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Matthew
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That's not what I meant, but whatever.
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Matthew
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Here's a quote I'm really digging:
"Sin is a word that has been greatly misunderstood and misinterpreted. Literally translated from the ancient Greek in which the New Testament was written, to sin means to miss the mark, as an archer who misses the target, so to sin means to miss the point of human existence. It means to live unskillfully, blindly, and thus to suffer ad cause suffering. Again, the term, stripped of its cultural baggage and misinterpretations, points to the dysfunctional inherent in the human condition."
-Eckhart Tolle
A New Earth
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Kiwi
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I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to say, then.
And yes, that's a very good quote.
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Beagle On Stage
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| Matthew wrote: | | beagle you look a lot like psyches.. are you two related? |
I don't see it. Completely different coloring and facial structures, and his body type appears slighter and less hairy than mine. I'm not aware that there's any relation between us, though I suppose eventually we're all related to Father Noah.
| Kragey wrote: | | Just curious: are you saying that ancient Greek civilization failed because of homosexuality? |
No, that is putting words in my mouth. I'm saying exactly what I said: "Just because the Greeks may have done it, doesn't necessarily validate it." As evidenced by a picture of their ruins - clearly they were fallible after all.
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Matthew
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| Beagle On Stage wrote: | | Matthew wrote: | | beagle you look a lot like psyches.. are you two related? |
I don't see it. Completely different coloring and facial structures, and his body type appears slighter and less hairy than mine. I'm not aware that there's any relation between us, though I suppose eventually we're all related to Father Noah. |
no you guys really look alike
and noah is just a story duh
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lesmisloony
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Um, Matthew? What point are you trying to make with any of what you're saying?
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Matthew
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| lesmisloony wrote: | | Um, Matthew? What point are you trying to make with any of what you're saying? |
lol who cares
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Kiwi
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| Beagle On Stage wrote: | | "Just because the Greeks may have done it, doesn't necessarily validate it." |
Was anyone trying to validate homosexuality because of what the Greeks did? Nope. Pretty sure no one did. I'm not sure about other people, but I referred to it because Candymancan said that most cultures in history are/were against homosexuality, and I know that to be false, so I was disproving it. I guess I shouldn't have said anything at all, it seems to have done nothing but added trouble.
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Kiwi
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| Matthew wrote: | | lesmisloony wrote: | | Um, Matthew? What point are you trying to make with any of what you're saying? |
lol who cares |
Yeah, it's not like staying on topic is a very common trend in these threads, anyway.
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Kragey
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| Beagle On Stage wrote: |
| Kragey wrote: | | Just curious: are you saying that ancient Greek civilization failed because of homosexuality? |
No, that is putting words in my mouth. |
I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. That's why I asked what you meant, then elaborated in case that WAS what you meant.
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