Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| downonbway |
I can't stand West Side Story
I love some of the fallen musicals like King David, and Dance of the Vampires |
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| shakalakababy |
 I'm just wondering. What's your reasoning behind that?
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| Matthew |
*sharpens paintbrushes* Sleep with one eye open, tonight. |
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| what_the_heck013 |
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| Matthew |
Agreed?...Agreed! |
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| Jordan |
If one talks about accessibility then yes SITPWG is overrated. ITW is candy for the masses. |
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| Patrick |
I did not say that SitPwG is a BAD SHOW, I just said that when put up next to Sweeney Todd, Company, ItW, AFTHotWttF, or even A Little Night Music, its not that good.
The show is very weak musically and is a little over-artistic for my tastes, I mean I appreciate that its art and its a good show, I just dont like it. |
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| sunshinekate |
My unpopular opinion...I really really don't like Phantom of the Opera. | ||||||
| OneSongGlory |
Not unpopular around here at all, babe. |
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| sunshinekate |
Really? Lol okay I thought lots of people on here liked it. Well then I guess it's one of my popular opinions then haha. |
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| Beagle On Stage |
I'm just so tired of "Oklahoma." Everyone and their mother has been in it five times, and at any point in time, you can always find a production within driving distance. I realize it was ground-breaking in the 40's, yadda yadda yadda, but by today's standards it's a little flat. Schools and community theatres ARE allowed to stage other shows, you know. And you would think that for as long as it's been around and as much exposure as everyone has had to it, it would be done well most of the time...but no, a lot of productions still suck anyway. | ||||||
| Che |
^ i've not only never been in it, but i've never even seen it live.
*dies* and i still think it's brilliant. |
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| vanillabean |
I dislike censorship. In any way. I happen to think it is a replacement for parenting. If the kid doesn't see it, I don't have to deal with it kind of thing.
(Therefore I also dislike when someone feels the need to completely edit something that was said. Doesn't matter how "noble" your intent was, it just isn't cool.) I also believe that if you love someone you should be able to marry them. Plain and simple. This is especially unpopular where I live. I have come up with a solution to the whole definition issue too. (Although I think it should be changed to incorporate anyone who wants to get married). Split it. Define heterosexual marriage and homosexual marriage separately. Everyone wins. I think organized religion, especially Christianity, is the root of all evil. Well, that and money. I am against the legalization of marijuana. I am pro-choice. We are big kids now. We deserve to have the choice. I think health care should be free for everyone. If a cure for AIDS were to be found I think it would be wrong to charge a ridiculous amount for it. It should be made available to EVERYONE not just the privileged. Yeah. I got going there. If you have anything you want to say in attack of my beliefs I welcome the challenge to them. I thought about asking for the arguments to be kept to PMs to keep this topic free of clutter but frankly, I don't give a damn 
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| shakalakababy |
^ well i agree with just about everything you said there
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| Che |
i happen to believe the cures for AIDS, diabetes, a lot of cancers, etc. have already been found and are being extremely closely guarded. it's the money that keeps our economy "working." i hate this country. |
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| vanillabean |
I fear something like V for Vendetta happening.
They find the cure for a rare virus. Then, in order to keep power with the government instead of with the people where it belongs, they stage an attack of biological variety. After a couple hundred thousand people die, they "miraculously" come up with a cure. |
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| what_the_heck013 |
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| vanillabean |
Things like Day After Tomorrow are just movies. V for Vendetta shows how history will repeat itself if we don't ---- learn. The sky will not fall until some idiot pulls it down on top of us. I am betting on George W, Bush being that idiot. |
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| what_the_heck013 |
Bush will be gone soon... and all will be fine. Let's just pray that Hilary doesn't get into office. | ||||||
| shakalakababy |
Hillary would be better then bush but hey, my cat would probably be better then bush 
I'm rooting for Obama anyways, but i don't know how much of a chance he really has |
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| Che |
^
loves you wth |
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| Patrick |
I actually am all for a Bloomberg/Hagel ticket because I, like them, am pretty much a Republican who is pro-gay rights and anti-war. | ||||||
| Patrick |
I take that back, I'm a socialist, but Bloomberg and Hagel look like our best bet |
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| Beagle On Stage |
Screening children from inappropriate material is only a small sliver of censorship. Most censorship is done for adults, and appreciated. It's not about protecting people, it's about sparing people from having to deal with unnecessary upsetting things without expecting them to lead an unrealistic life. And the pro-choice/pro-life issue isn't about being "big kids now." It's about whether certain things are injustices or not. (And what about when those issues come up for people who aren't "big kids" yet, for example 14-year-olds having abortions?) If health care is free for everyone, how are medical professionals going to earn a living? An increase in taxes? (Do you have any idea how colossal that increase would have to be for health care to be absolutely free to absolutely everyone?) |
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| Patrick |
before we get into an awful downward spiral of abortion, religion, and politics, i would just like to say that I think that Sondheim isn't even one of the three greatest composers ever, H2$ is the greatest musical ever, followed by the Who's Tommy, and that Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain
.......and Marlon Brando could have been a better Jesus than Ted Neeley Brando definately would be a better Edna then Travolta (even though Brando's dead) |
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| happyguava |
*imagines them making Hairspray "Weekend at Bernie's" style with Brando.
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| OneSongGlory |
I just sang (inside my head) through the entire High School Musical score, paying close attention to all the vocal lines.
...I'm not going to lie, it's not written THAT badly. |
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| qpidsangel |
The world is run by GOD, by GOD, I mean Gold, Oil and Drugs. | ||||||
| Patrick |
I agree, HSM is not very good, but it could make it to Broadway and do very well (not for too long, but a while) its better than some things that have made it to Broadway It may not be the masterpiece that people are convinced Sondheim's work is, but ALW, Schwartz, Menken, and S+B's stuff has done far better financially than Sondheim. And sometimes, it really is all about the money. |
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| Kaiana |
Lol. This definitely belongs in the unpopular opinions thread. |
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| thewordisno |
Harry Potter is overrated.
FYI. I just wasted 2 hrs. of my life standing in a very crowded bookshop for my little brother. I just hope he enjoys the book and appreciates the gesture. |
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| Beagle On Stage |
This is supposed to be for opinions, not facts. 
What are you guys going to do? Cast a spell on me? |
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| OneSongGlory |
Awwwwwww! |
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| Patrick |
yeah, but lets be realistic if you could be rich and famous or a respected artist among those who really know about our field, what would you choose? |
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| Che |
i'd choose to be a respected artist. any day. |
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| Beagle On Stage |
Well in many ways I already am rich, famous, and respected in my culturally-stunted area. lol. So I would go with whichever option produces fewer chronically stuck-up people. HSM it is. 
Besides, Sondheim is rich and famous anyway. So there really is no question. |
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| Patrick |
Yes, Sondheim is but there are plenty of artists who refuse to "sell out" hence the term "starving artists" |
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| Beagle On Stage |
Anyone who starves because they see themselves as too good to condescend to a level that anyone actually cares about, is bringing it on themselves. | ||||||
| Patrick |
THAT'S MY POINT!! |
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| Che |
my point is it *shouldn't* be about money, although it usually is. for me, i would rather be completely unknown to the world as a whole if it meant i was honestly respected by those who do know me. |
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| Patrick |
Alright, I'm srry and would just like to go back to my original opinions that Sondheim isn't even one of the three greatest composers ever, H2$ is the greatest musical ever, followed by the Who's Tommy, and that Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain, HSM isn't THAT bad, .......and my dog could have been a better Leo Bloom than Matthew Broderick and Marlon Brando definately would be a better Edna then Travolta (even though Brando's dead) |
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| Salome |
its pretty bad if you can't acknowlege Sondheim as one of the 3the greatest musical theatre writer of all time.(with porter and rodgers) even if he isnt your personal favorite. there is the problem with threads like this. | ||||||
| benjivaudeville |
That problem is that some people don't share your opinion? |
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| Salome |
that sondheim is one of the greatest and most influential writers in musical theatre isnt an opinion its a fact.
saying..I like schwartz better than sondheim is an opinion. saying.. saying sondheim is a stronger and more influential composer than schawartz is a fact. big difference. |
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| mtgirl118 |
I like HSM. It's fun and entertaining. Sure it's fluff...but it's fun fluff =].
However, I think most people will agree when I say I hate the annoying fan girls. I know too many. |
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| benjivaudeville |
But you didn't say that. You just said greatest, a term, people can take in a number of senses, most commonly to mean 'the best'.
I personally like all of his work that I've encountered but if someone else doesn't enjoy it. That's fair enough. |
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| Pounce |
Sondheim is stronger in what way? What does it mean to be stronger? And influential in what way? Jonathan Larson certainly idolized him, but I'm not sure to what extent we hear Sondheim's influence in Larson's music. Larson did borrow Sondheim's tune "Sunday" and having an approaching birthday theme in TTB. Plus Schwartz' Wicked is performing well at the box office which is more influential than anything of what we'll see on Broadway in the future. |
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| Patrick |
I didn't say that he's not one of the 3 greatest musical theatre writers, I said COMPOSER, which he is not one of the three best |
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| Salome |
box office and cash has no bearing on whether as show is good or not.If ha tweret he case Salieri wold be the most famous and esteemed composer in the world not Mozart.
Larson,JRB,Dave Zippel,Andrew Lippa,Maury Yeston, have all sited sondheim as a major influence. Without "Company" them usical theatre would still be a land of "Subways are for Sleeping" and "Hello Dollys". better in the sense of expert lyrics..music that suits the character who sings it...emotional throughl ine. unlike webber and schwartz whose music is generic and can have anything written for it and plopped in another show by the same author. i love how people try to talk othis when thwy can't even hear the difference. |
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| candymancan |
That is such an excellent point! All right my turn for opinions! 1) Wicked has really amazing music and a first act but the second act blows chunks! 2) Wicked and Phantom are not the best things ever made, I still love them dearly but there is so much that is better. 3) I love Spring Awakening for its music! It has some of the best Harmonies ever! The show just plain blows. 4)I love Disney!!! Especially on stage! Except Tarzan, I haven't seen it staged but I really don't care for its music. 5) Aida is one of my favorite musicals! Lol, some of these felt more like confessions. |
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| Kaiana |
Sorry this is a bit late, but I would most definitely choose the respected artist. My goal in life is to do what I love and make enough money to get by. I have no desire for fame/fortune. |
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| Patrick |
At no point did I ever compare Sondheim to ALW or Schwartz, I said he is the fourth best composer of all time and I stand by it: 1. William Schwenk Gilbert and Arthur Seymour Sullivan 2. Cole Porter 3. Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein III 4. STEPHEN SONDHEIM 5. Leonard Bernstein 6. Gioachino Rossini 7. Lerner and Loewe 8. Jonathan Larson (b/c whether mimi dies or not, it's still better than anything ALW or Schwartz did, and TTB is a masterpiece) 9. Alan Menken 10. Giacomo Puccini |
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| thewordisno |
Everyone is indebted to someone else's style, contributions, and work. Think of all who are indebted to Bernstein, Rogers, Porter, etc. It's not much of an arguement. ALSO, I don't agree that Porter, Rogers, and Sondheim are the 3 greatest musical theater writers. But heck, that's why they call this the unpopular opinions thread, eh? |
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| thewordisno |
Just pointing out that if you're writing a list of best composers.... there really should be no point in having librettists in the thread. The top ten librettists is a whole new topic. Just FYI Another FYI. Oscar Hammerstein I made cigars and built theaters, Oscar Hammerstein II wrote really good lyrics to Richard Rogers music, Oscar Hammerstein III doesn't exist yet.... |
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| Pounce |
An optimist! 
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| Pounce |
I can't accept the idea that box office performance has no bearing on whether or not a show is good. It is a legitimate indicator that is especially true the longer a show lasts. The box office is the life blood of theater so only those shows that can turn a profit will inspire investors to support writers of similar shows. I've seen the avant garde and experimental stuff and they are really for their fellow artists, but even they eventually have to get around to producing the more mainstream shows in order pay the bills. |
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| Che |
popularity and quality are not the same thing. not to diss any of these shows, but look at the longest running broadway shows of all time - Phantom, CATS, A Chorus Line, Les Mis...these are VERY popular, yes. rake in the dough, yes. bad shows? not at all, that's not what i'm saying. BUT, i can't think of any music historian or analyst (and i don't just mean musical theatre - i mean MUSIC) who would rate any of those shows in the best musicals written even within their respective time periods. the music is generally considered shallow, if not downright trite. now, people can like them, yes, and i even have a special place in my heart for at least phantom and cats, but the length they run has nothing to do with how good they are. social appeal has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the music. accessability, maybe. i'll be the first to admit that the work of sondheim, bernstein, and at times even people like rodgers and coleman and bock, are not so easy to even listen to, much less sing along with, but they are analytically and aurally better to the trained ear. |
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| Mara |
Sadly, popular culture is not based on quality. The finest composers in the world are of the classical music or music theatre world. The mainstream view would be that if a song is enjoyable and easy to sing along to makes it "good". Snoop Dogg is rich. He's made a lot of money. Ditto thousands of other artists. Are they the greatest musicians/performers in the world? No way. Hollywood actors are raking in the money. Do you mean to tell me Tara Reid is a great actress? I don't think so. I have a soft spot for Phantom and I enjoy shows which have made a lot of money. But I vehemently disagree that this makes them the best. Because most people who go to see them don't know much about theatre - and while I believe they can enjoy shows and have a great time, I have no problem with that - their opinion shouldn't be the defining opinion on the matter. I know that in Australia anyway, people will usually only go to see huge productions at Star City Casino - like Miss Saigon, Priscilla Queen of the Desert, etc. Big budget productions with huge costumes and colours and amazing sets are there to entertain the masses. Which once again, is fine - I'm all for performers making money, but it doesn't make them the greatest thing ever. The most famous classical pieces in the world - Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, Fur Elise etc - are not the greatest compositions. But they are accessible to the public. It doesn't downplay that they are composed well, but they are as fantastic as they are made to seem. |
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| Che |
and in response to the few comments above about being influential - what salome was saying about sondheim's influence is different from the influence of wicked.
both are there, but what she was pointing out is that it's highly unlikely any successful composer will list "stephen schwartz" in the people that gave him/her the greatest creative inspiration or provided a stepping stone into something new and daring and original. |
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| Maniacbob |
Not at all true The local professional theatre I work at just closed its production of Your a Good Man Charlie Brown early because no one was coming So the other show, Suds, which is very popular will run the rest of the summer alone However having seen both multiple times Charlie Brown was a much better show There are exterior circumstances that can affect shows in positive or negative ways Suds opened first and had an excellent review in all the local newspapers Charlie Brown opened two weeks later, had been preformed twice in the past 5 years in other theatres (the highschool and community theatre), and no one would come to review it |
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| DanUSGS |
Liza is awesome in Cabaret.
Joel Grey is a better Emcee than Alan. Medium sized, old fashioned comedy musicals like Damn Yankees, Anything Goes, and Guys and Dolls are far superior to the overdramatic, overstaged tripe like Les Mis and Miss Saigon and POTO. All of Sondheim's music sounds the same. (luckily, it sounds great, also) I don't care how good Len was, George Hearn's Sweeney is perfectly fine with me. Cats should be a concert show, highlighting the only thing good about it. . . it's music. |
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| Pounce |
I was really referring to the epitome of performances, Broadway & West End or even Off-Broadway where there is the best talent available. It helps when judging a show if the talent is not the weak link. A dinner theater performing CATS is not the best example when trying to decide if the show is good or not. I've seen college productions of Into the Woods and Assassins and neither gave me a favorable impression of the material. Not to say that an amateur production can't do a good show, but it's less likely. Avant garde and experimental theater can survive but they have to seek out where their niche audience is. New York is a good place I hear. 
I have no idea as to why CB failed where you are but the type of material and marketing to convince audiences to see the show is important. It's certainly possible for good shows to close early because the public hasn't been convinced to give it a try. Not so easy to have bad shows run for a very long time. The rule of thumb with Hollywood B films is get it into as many theaters as possible and do a media blitz to entice audiences so you can make the money quickly before word gets out that the film sucks. Stage theater doesn't have that luxury. |
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| Patrick |
I actually agree with those (although I would like to see Adam Pascal as the Emcee) ...And as for the  Sondheim comment, I said something similar...It didn't go over well
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| DanUSGS |
I'm glad it's not just me then. |
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| Patrick |
this is probably an unpopular opinion....
Disney Movies (BatB, Lion King, Little Mermaid, etc.) and RENT made musicals popular again, and that's a GOOD THING. |
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| what_the_heck013 |
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| Matthew |
Tell me how this: (ignore video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q22p5LJ2jRc and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G27ar-IL6qc are "the same" |
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| Salome |
Its just thetwo of you. Sondheim is one of the few composers who changes style to fit the mood of the piece.. Forum sounds nothingl ike Into The Woods..Into the Woods sounds nothingl ike Company..Company sounds nothing like Sweeney Todd...etc etc... the only two show of his that have a similar sound ore ITW and SITPWG. I have a feeling its becuase oft he intense collaboration between Sondheimand Lapine andthe fact that both shows were written in close order..but even theren Bakers Wife couldnot sing to the tune of something written for dot..The Baker could not sing to the tune of soething written for George....the music and lyrics Sondhem writew its too personal for that. which is why revues of his work arent always as successful as revues of people like Porter,Gershwin,Coward or R&H. |
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| (aerial) |
hehe. excellent. |
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| Maniacbob |
And the newly opening Hairspray movie and probably High School Musical (which is actually Disney isnt it) Which means my school will be doing Hairspray this year just like HSM How regretable Great for the industry to bring in a new crowd of ppl who think they can sing and act and want to give it a go And we'll find a handful who can but thats the way it goes right BTW how successful was the original Hairspray I heard it didnt do all that well but I havent had time to investigate |
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| Salome |
do you mean the musical or the original film the musical is based on | ||||||
| theatre_grl |
or 'the ballad of sweeny todd' and 'everybody ought to have a maid' ? thats a crazy statement--they arent the same. |
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| DanUSGS |
Twice now my mother has been able to tell what I was listening to was Sondheim. Her knowledge of Sondheim music was once when I listened to Sweeney Todd in the car on a trip.
She has walked into the room while I was listening to Into the Woods, and Follies and gone "is this the same guy who did Sweeney Todd? I can tell." |
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| Matthew |
He has a style, not the same music every show. | ||||||
| Mara |
Yeah, you can do the same with Andrew Lloyd Webber. I can pick most composers even though I don't know the song.
For example, I can pick Mozart. It's a stylistic thing - doesn't mean it's all the same. Otherwise you can say that about every single composer ever. |
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| Mademoiselle Lanoire |
Since this seems to be an unpopular opinion - Marni Nixon sucks. | ||||||
| Glissando |
Very unpopular. |
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| Pannic |
I like Lerner & Loewe more than Rodgers & Hammerstein/Hart. >_> | ||||||
| Patrick |
agreed |
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| thewordisno |
I don't particularly care for Gilbert and Sullivan.
AT ALL. Oops. Also, I think that "Brother, Can You Spare A Dime" is an underrated musical theater CLASSIC song. |
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| Pannic |
I think that Ted Neeley was a mediocre Jesus in the JCS movie. And I didn't like Miss Saigon, either. >_> | ||||||
| Patrick |
That's okay, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, (even me)
I agree that Neeley is not as good as some other Jesus...es I've heard, especially Ian Gillan |
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| thewordisno |
However you overlooked the more important 1/2 of my post....
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| What Is This Feeling? |
I can't stand Michael Crawford.
I like Judy Kuhn much better than Frances Rufelle. Save for a very few songs, and few performers, I don't care for Into the Woods at all. |
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| Patrick |
That's because I was not very familiar with it. After hearing it, I agree whole heartedly with the second half of your post...YAY |
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| Pannic |
I personally think that Frances Ruffelle was a vastly better Eponine than Lea Salonga. >_> | ||||||
| Patrick |
AGREED 
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| Matthew |
what the hell is that?! | ||||||
| thewordisno |
Reminds me of those mushrooms I ate once.... *Kidding* |
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| Pannic |
The question I'm asking is "what does that have to do with you agreeing on that matter?" >_>
And what the heck's the deal with your sig? Peanut butter and kittens? It makes absoluetely no sense. >_> |
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| Patrick |
i just saw it as I was looking for a new avatar, and posted it speaking of which... 
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| Pannic |
Don't you think that's a bit of a non-sequiter? >_> | ||||||
| Patrick |
Can a picture be a non sequitur? If so, this certainly is one... 
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| Holly |
You've used >_> three times in two posts... |
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| bwaydisaster |
^did I miss something?
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| Patrick |
No, I was just being an idiot, but the stupid animal pictures are over. |
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| Pannic |
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| Matthew |
It's really annoying, and I'm sure it has a dumb reason. | ||||||
| Pannic |
Yep. Dumb reason indeed. Habit, really. | ||||||
| Beagle On Stage |
Pop-style voices rarely have a place in musical theatre. There are obviously some shows, most of them quite recent, that are designed with the intention of pop voices performing the material, but I feel that the majority of the time it's just inappropriate.
There are so many reasons why. But the main one is that it often just doesn't fit the character. Here's an example. I've seen many "Oklahoma"s with pop goddesses cast as Laurie. Were these ladies opening at a contemporary music concert, they would probably be excellent. They have nice voices...but not the kind that Laurie would have. Consider Laurie's historical period, personality, and lifestyle. If she sang at all, it would be a very free, unself-conscious soprano, probably with a hint of a very natural vibrato. You can't have someone who looks like she just walked in from "Little House on the Prairie" sounding like she's going to break into "Genie in a Bottle" each time she opens her mouth. The same thing happens with men. How many "South Pacific"s am I going to have to sit through where Cable is a whispery Jack Johnson wannabe? Again, it's not necessarily a bad thing if that's someone's style, but there's just no way this particular character would sound like that when singing. |