[*asterix*]

I'm sorry, this is long and off topic and I really hate bringing such personal matters on to the board, but I am presently near my wit's end...

At about 3:30am today, my kitty girl Stella peed on mum’s bed.

Despite the fact that she’s “my” cat officially, we’ve both come to accept that she much prefers my mother and since the passing of our other cat, Bijou, Stella has taken up his position sleeping on mum’s bed. She is pretty much glued to the woman’s side all evening and night, as my mum spends the majority of her time upon getting home lying down watching TV or sitting and reading or doing paper work on her bed. This was a bummer to me, for a time, but deep down I was just relieved to see Stella content with someone, and surprised to see, after a time, some affection building on my mother’s part, too – while Bijou was alive, her relationship with my cat was frosty at best, Stella is a very distant, un-cuddly beast as opposed to Bijou’s docile, all-loving nature, but I don’t think my mother expected to miss the feline presence in her life as much as she did after he died, and if Stella was helping her fill that even a little I was happy for them both…

Stella’s never been “normal”, if any feline cane be considered normal. She was maliciously ill treated as a kitten and has been marked with a distrust of humans ever since. She only allows 2 people, my mother and myself, to even touch her, and this is strictly on her time and whim as she will otherwise run even from us most of the time, and hates to be picked up. By strange contrast, though, when she wants to be petted she will all but drool on you, rubbing her face in to your hands, doing her best to purr (she doesn’t seem to actually know how to purr properly, but she tries) and often within a couple strokes, rolling completely on to her back, legs folded up, baring her bald belly and chest to the world and seeming to greatly enjoy being pet on the underside, which is supposed to be where cats least like to be touched…
Though she started out as the most skittish creature I have ever known, I would like to think that the patience and kindness she’s received during her years living with us have allowed her to relax somewhat. When she first moved in, I would never have believed I could someday walk in to talk to my mother and see this little tabby casually pressed up against her, looking smug and only turning her ears not in fear but to listen to the TV….

I guess I’m side tracking.
A little over 2 weeks ago, Stella, for no apparent reason, peed on mum’s bed during the night. There was freaking out, but we turned the mattress and resolved to take her to the vet ASAP, which wasn’t for 2 days. The next night, she did it again.
After blood and urine tests, the vet could find nothing wrong with her. No bladder infection, no stones, nothing with her kidneys… So it’s behavioural. It was figured that something must have spooked her badly out on the balcony (this is feasible, as we have nasty gulls nesting atop the building’s elevator shaft – they attacked Bijou several times and even tried to carry him off once) where her litter box is, such that she was now relieving herself in a space where she felt safe. We moved her litter box inside, soaked the mattress with “nature’s miracle” and I scrubbed it several times with disinfectant and for the past couple weeks this seems to have solved the problem.

While the mattress was drying from the Nature’s Miracle treatment (about 1 week) it was propped up and mum slept on the floor. Needless to say, neither could Stella get up there in that time. For this time, I thought it might be a good idea to also keep mum’s door closed at night – if mum wanted Stella by her on the bed while she was awake that’s great, as ill behaviour could be checked, but there are other places in the house where Stella would be perfectly comfortable spending the night (in fact, when mum’s not home, she’s almost always in the same corner of the living room, either on her chair which really is only hers now, or pressed up against the stones by the fireplace, “cooking”) and mum wouldn’t need to worry about waking up to a “surprise”…

Until recently, this seemed to be working. Then mum started letting Stella in to sleep with her again. Early this morning, the cat peed on the bed again.

I think she may be marking territory. Stella’s not big on intrusions to her routine and up until a month ago the household routine was that I was very seldom home. I think she views me as an intruder, as I’m home a lot more in the month since graduation. When I talk to my mother, or spend time with her watching TV or a movie, we’re often in her room with mum at her usual spot and me sitting on the corner of the bed – I think Stella may see that entire half of the bed as “hers” by now, as she doe seem rather indignant when she comes in to the room and finds me there. I did not think the insult ran that deep, but maybe…?

If this is the case then I can capitulate – it’s no real skin off my nose to sit elsewhere in the room if that’s what it takes to keep the peace. But I don’ think there’ll be time to test this theory.

I don’t know what to do. As of this morning mum determined that tomorrow night (because she doesn’t have time today) Stella has to be put down.
I can not see the rational side of this. I think mum is insulted and hurt, I would be if it was my mattress, I’m hurt now by the misbehaviour. But mum’s also under a LOT of pressure and insult at work, anger that she can’t direct anywhere because it is all coming from superiors in the company, one in particular who openly hates her and uses any opportunity to put her down and aggravate her. She’s been suffering this abuse for years with no outlet, except occasionally freaking out on me which I know she needs to so I let it go… Now, she can not lash out at these people, but she can put down a cat she claims never to have liked.

That sounds so petulant when I type it out.

I am not a martyr, and my mother is not a monster, but she has never dealt well with emotional turmoil and admits this, and in this case I think it’s leading her to harsh reactions with unfair consequences.
Stella is only 12. She’s not young any more, but for a house cat she still has a good few years of life that she deserves to enjoy, and is otherwise perfectly healthy. When it CAN be avoided simply by keeping a door closed, this one misbehaviour does not seem like justification to end her life.

Mum says, “I don’t want to HAVE to keep my door closed!” and I understand and sympathize with her insult, but if it’s just this one thing and only while she sleeps…? And only for a month or two, hopefully, until I move out and take the cat with me. I would’ve been gone months ago if I thought I could make rent anywhere that allowed pets, but Vancouver has less and less of an animal friendly housing market. I have looked, I AM looking… But now I am without steady income, and that’s a problem.

Adding to the dilemma, I can only offer so much for Stella’s aid IF we could take her for another, non-lethal appointment with the vet. Up till now I’ve gone 50/50 on vet bills (because we have insurance on her, mum eventually gets reimbursed for the half she pays) and I’ve been paying for most of Stella’s food, her litter and recently all the cleaning products (natures miracle is NOT cheap) to deal with the situation. I might be able to scrounge together enough for one more check up, but if the vet determines she needs to go on meds (Prozac, of all things, has been suggested) I can not afford it.
While I have been looking for work in my field, mum’s been discouraging me from taking other part time employment until at least May because she wanted me on hand to help her with moving the office where she works. I was to start this week and be paid about the same as a part time wage, and was hoping by this to make enough to get by until I get another job, as well as have a little money to put back in to the “emergency fund”, which I depleted with Stella’s last round of vet visits and such. So far, though, I have only been able to work one day this week (and have yet to be paid for it; might not be, now) due to delays with the painters, and as of this morning was “dismissed” because mum doesn’t want to see me there…

… I don’t know what to do. I only just pulled Bijou's graphic from my signature after over a year commemorating his passing, and he at least went in relative peace and so much love... I'm not ready to lose another one, not like this.

[Rumblepurr]

Bast only knows why a cat suddenly leaves its litter box to void somewhere else... But putting it down is not the best answer for that. If that is what your mother is thinking, then Stella needs to placed somewhere safe where she cannot do that business again. If that means shutting her up in her own room, then do that - When you move, the cat goes with you and the problem is solved - at least for your mum...

Our dachshund refuses to become housebroken, so she stays in a kennel until we can keep an eye on her... You might have to do the same for Stella. If the problem is not physical (as the vet seems to have ruled out...), then something mental/emotional is the culprit. I wish I had access to some of the CatFancy articles on this problem... You might do some Google searches on it...

Sorry I could offer more.
Rumblepurr
THe Writer Cat.

[Belle]

What a horrible stressful situation...

I know the problem with a peeing cat - one of mine has that bad habit because we're up in the loft, and one of the others bullies her on her way outside. So we've installed a hatch to shut off the loft when there's no-one up here - same technique as closing your mother's bedroom door. (still smells bad up here... and she sleeps beside me so innocently...)

Putting her down is not a reasonable answer, I'm sure your mother knows this really. I agree with Rumblepurr - would it be possible to shut her in another room, with litter tray, at night? Reassure your mum that you'll be moving out with Stella A.S.A.P. but until then a temporary solution needs to be found.

[Cassandra]

I'm so sorry you're having all these troubles, hun. I know it can be really stressful. *hugs*

I agree with the others that putting Stella down is not the answer. If there's not a separate room in which to shut her, how about a worthwhile investment in a cat cage? Stella may not like it at first, but after a while I'll bet that's where she goes for comfort and security. It would be her own little space. Those cages come in a variety of sizes so she would have ample room to move around. You can put her in there at night and let her out during the day, or whatever works with your and your mum's schedules. She'd probably do great with her litter box in there, too.

These are just a couple I found with a quick Yahoo! Image search:





Hope everything works out. Keep us updated!

[Etcetera Kitten]

I'm sorry Asterix, I really know what that is. One of my own cats had to be put to sleep because he would defecate everywhere, even ont he couch where wed all sit in it for hours. Only, Bonbon was sick, thats the difference.

I think Stella may be getting old and having a hard time holding it back. That also happens to human beings they get old. That, or she is living a huge stress that is making her act so strangely.

I'm sure if you tell your mom "Mom, I know lifes been hard on you, and I know its not great to find pee on the bed mattress, but please cant you give Stella a chance? What about we try to find out whats wrong first?

I currently own 6 cats. One of them comes to be allergic to perfumed pebbles litter, so a few months ago we started to buy paper pellets litter which worked fine. Then, one of my other cats started to pee on boxes and books and other stuff in my mom's office. We ended up guessing that Nay-Nay had associated the smell of paper to "litter time". So yeah, we moved back to another brand of perfumed pebbles. With 6 cats home, its hard to accomodate everyone.

All that to say that I'm sure there is a reason that your cat behaves like this. If its a new condition of life/stress she is living, it can be solved. If she has just become incotinent and cant hold back no more, then may be she really is getting old, poor thing.

Good luck with that, I know its hard to loose a pet. But I can also see why your mom may be irritate at it, and communication and talking together looks like the only way out.

Take care of yourself, keep us updated.

EK

[*asterix*]

Rumblepurr - what you offered was genuine experience and advice, exactly what I had asked for No apologies needed.

Belle - I wish I could say she knew that it's unreasonable but... I know my mother. She's by no means a bad person, in many ways she has a big heart that's always giving if you're in its favour, but she has a way of being very hard minded once she's made a descision, esp when it comes to wounded trust. The shame in it being that, once she's decided like that, any other opinions are not acknowledged as such but rather, as I was accused this morning, as being "soft and incapable of making a descision." I'm not incapable, my descision was just different than hers; namely I decided that pee is not a capital offense.

Cassandra - though I'm not sure if the cat cage would work in this small apartment (I'm trying to think of a room where somethingthatdeep wouldn't literally cut off traffic", but if they're collapsable (too much trouble to move, otherwise) I might certainly consider investing in one for future living spaces. It'll have to be draped in fabric like a bird cage, though. Stella-kitty prefers dark spaces I can just picture her in a fort of moving boxes...

EK - I'm sorry to hear about Bonbon You're right though, the key difference is that he was actually sick, and that was causing him to make messes, but also the feel bad. It was kind of you not to let him suffer. Our boy Bijou was euthanized when he went in to complete renal failure - he couldn't stomach food, he wasn't absorbing fluids and his organs were shutting down in rapid succession - he wasn't in pain, but he was miserable and it was only going to get worse as he sufferred dehydration and then would start really feeling pain, and would onlyhave been able to continue like that for aweek, maybe. It was better not to make him suffer any more than 2 days of starving, parching, and losing all physical coordination already had.
Stella's not incontinent, they tested for that. She is not sick. This isn't an age thing, yet, she's just... a messy headcase of a cat.
Mum still doesn't want to hear my thoughts on the matter, so it's difficult trying to have a mature conversation with her, as you suggest... Maybe in time, but not now.
I'm sure there is a reason forthis behaviour, and I really hope it can be solved or if not, then worked around more humanely... But that takes time, which is the issue right now...

otherwise... updates:

I've spent most've my day cleaning/sorting out a "kitty area" in my room, looking up job listings and housing openings for May... And hoping.

I called my mum twice - once at lunch time and once around 5pm, and both time she told me she didn't want to talk and hung up.
Feeling very much in the cold.

At about 7:30pm she called here. Apparently she had spent nearly an hour in discussion with the vet who last saw Stella... And had been "enlightenned" to the idea that if she killed the cat when I am so adamently against it, that she might "lose [her] daughter," and on that basis had agreed to try the Prozac for a month, and then "the three of us will talk."
She's my mother. She will never lose me. I strongly disagree with her motives, but I will always be her daughter.... So, I hate holding that card against her, but if it's the only thing making her consider otherwise right now... I hate manipulating her, and hope we can patch up over this at a later time. For now, that's how it's gotta be.
Thank you Dr. Janet.

And in a month I've gotta be gone.
Personally, I have little faith in Prozac, and greatly dislike the idea of drugging my kitty; even if it does work, it'll only be a matter of time before another reason is found. References in the phonecall included "Never love that b**** again" and "she's a devil-cat. I always thought she was, now I know." Mum is very angry at Stella, and blames her for causing a rift in our relationship...

Mum's not going to "cool down" soon, I've lived with her long enough to know that. She's not coming home tonight, says she's going to work through... I know from personal experience how working youself to a drain can have a numbing effect that may be a temporary relief... All the same, I'm worried for her.

taking account:
+positive - a month's grace (hopefully)
+positive - because an additional appointment was not orderred (all Stella's bloodwork and test results are so recent) I can afford the Rx without stretching, I think. Whatever's left goes to contingency funds.
+positive - I have since been requested for a follow up interview to one I went in for last week. These people rrrreally don't seem like reliable employers, but with any luck if it works out... It's good for at least 1 paycheck while I look for something else. (hopefully. again.)

To those who may have been sending good vibes, it seems to have worked. Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you. After those hang ups earlier I was really beginning to lose hope of having the oppurtunity to talk reasonably, n/m change her mind.

[Spanish_Rumple]

I've been told that cats hate to be sprayed with water, if the cat is on her bed after peeing then spray her just a bit, then reward her when she pees correctly on her litter box. I'm talking about a sort of behaviour therapy, there are many different techniches and a lot of them are not too aggressive, so that animals can cope with it and they work eventually.

On the other hand I was also thinking about some sort of cat repellent that could be use to impregnate just the bed's legs. I don't really know about cat products... but isn't there any kind of cat repellent?? I mean, if you're gone in one month I don't think any kind of medical treatment would work properly, and they are expensive.


I love animals, don't judge me too bad when I speak about the behavioural methods, I know about how aggressive they can get specially when used with electricity shocks and such.

[*asterix*]

Appreciate the advice, S_R

Stella's never done well with traditional warn/reward behavioural techniques. We have worked with her on the spray bottle before (I'm still trying it, actually), but she seems to constantly expect abuse, reacting the same way to the spray bottle as she does to simply being pet when she doesn't choose to be petted, being disturbed from her repose when she's in the way of foot traffic, or not getting fed each time she demands, and then sulks incurably. It's also very hard to catch her in the act, as it's not my bed. Understandably, not being fully awake when it happens, mum's more inclined to yell and swat rather than calmy reach for a spray bottle with these recent incidents.

As for repellant, there is a synthetic version of thehormones cats produce from the glands on their chins, the stuff they rub off on things they like. Supposedly, saturating an area with this scent will dissaude a cat from making messes there because they are not inclined to make messes in their favourite places ... Except that the bed is one ofStella's favourite places with no less than 4 corners of the box and bed side tables notably rubbed on a daily basis.

That's thing with animals: what works for most of them does not work for all of them. I'm reading up on some veterinary and pet-care sites about any options there might be and do intend to try anything within reason. Hopefully this behaviour can be curbed - getting her out of the house will save her life for now, but I don't particularly look forward to living with a pee-factory kitty, either

[darkmage]

Hmm.

Is the bed near a window? If it is, there may be ferals marking outside. My cat, Jacob, pees on my mother's bed for that very reason. The ferals in my neighbourhood can smell my cats inside the house, and so they mark the external wall right below the window. It's a cat's way of saying, "Get the hell off my land," and putting up boundaries, and since they can't call the cops for trespass, well, there you have it.

Sometimes it's also a dominance thing with them as well. She may be trying to tell your mother (esp. if she doesn't like the cat) that SHE'S top cat and your mother needs to damn well learn her place on the totem pole. If that's the case, have your mother simply shut the cat out of her room.

Some cats are also finicky and WILL NOT use a dirty litterbox. Some cats require it to be sparkling clean every time. If she's one of those, try placing about a third of an inch (1 cm) of litter in the box, and as soon as she uses the box, change out the litter and scrub the litterbox before putting new litter in.

Is she your only cat? If not, there may be pecking order/behavioural problems with the other cats too. If she gets attacked in the litterbox she'll learn not to use it.

Hope it helps, and good luck...

[*asterix*]

We live on on the 6th floor and the only thing immediately outside mum's window is our own balcony, and since Bijou passed 17 months ago Stella is an only cat so it's not ferals or "peer pressure".

Stella's litterbox has been fastideously cleaned ever since it came inside because I was trying to avoid having the place smell like cat pee (kinda shot that in the foot ) .

Mum was actually quite warming up to Stella until... well, yesterday. & that's one area where I can not help her, because if Stella thinks she's going to pick a fight and win with my mother, she has another thing coming.
Now if my mum would just agree to close her door, that might work. Oy.

Kitty who doesn't reason on one side, mum who refuses to on the other.


I want a vacation :p

[darkmage]

[*asterix*]

[darkmage]

[JelliclePat]

Asterix, has Stella been spayed? Some cats like to mark their territory (and that of 'their' people) by urinating, not just spraying, and it seems to be worse in unneutered animals. Inconvenient, to say the least, but the motive is actually one of love.

The spray bottle/treat regimen can work wonders, though it may take some time. In the meantime, the cage idea should do well.

It would be a shame if your mom wound up taking her frustration and stress out on a creature that doesn't truly deserve it. I'm glad to hear that you love her, and that she'll never truly lose you, but if she goes through with euthanizing Stella, there will always be a part of you that will resent her refusal to find a better way. I hope you find a solution that will benefit all three of you.

[darkmage]

Oh, and one more thing...

Urine is generally sterile when it leaves the body, unless the cat (this holds true for people too) has something like nephritis or a kidney infection. Instead of nuking stuff w/disinfectant after spraying it w/the stain remover, try scrubbing w/a mix of white vinegar and water. Works like a charm, I used to use this when Ariel'd miss the litterbox (she'd aim too far over the edge) and pee on the ceramic tile instead. It's a lot gentler on stuff than a lot of commercial cleaning fluids.

[*asterix*]

JelliclePat - Stella is a shelter cat, so yes she is spayed, and has the squishy atrophied stomach muscles to prove it
I've yet to actuallyhave the oppurtunity to put the spray method in to trial again on this issue. I always have one ready, but she really does not misbehave around me. So far she hasn't stepped outside the lines since last wednesday, andthat's how she is... She doesn't chronically midbehave, not by the definition of doing something bad with relative frequency... She just, occasionally, does very bad things.
Now that we're watching her, hopefully she can be caught and stopped before doing it again, for her own sake.

I agree completely and think it would be morethan a shame for mum to punish Stella so severely for an act that does not merit death. It borders on the criminal in my mind, to be frank. I walked out on a rather important dinner party once, because the hostess was describing with seeming non-chalance how she'd once "had to have her cat put down" because she travelled so much and the poor beast never saw her, assumed the apartment was its own territory, and was understandably stand-offish whenever the "owner" came home for a few weeks each year. "She simply wasn't friendly any more. I could not have an unfriendly pet."
I kept the grace not to make a scene at the time, simply got up and quietly left the apartment, but I have never apologized.
I know it's difficult position for my mum, one no one would choose to be in, but in the reasonable ranges of who is the thinking party and who is the animal, it's not right to kill an animal for anything short of endagerring your health or the health of your family. This is not a safety issue, she isn't protecting anyone, just her sense of pride, and an insult does not warrant death.
Moving on, to this degree, you'reright, I know myself and I would never forgive her. There are already other issues on which we have crossed strongly, and on which she acted in a way I deemed unforgivable... Again, though, and maybe this is unique, or at least rarer I get the sense, to our family dynamic, not forgiving does not mean hate. It is not a cut off or closing of the heart. It is simply something that is aknowledged, but I am still her daughter. I may not respect her every desision, but she is a respectable person. I do not have to like her, but I do love her.
/rant

darkmage - the disnifecting of the area withstronger agents is more for mum's peace of mind than sanitary reasons, I assure you. My hands would greatly appreciate "softer" washes like what you propose with the vinegar (between you, me andthe walls, I use this solution on certain dirty laundry when she's not looking, as it's better for the fabric) but she's a vclean freak and if it doesn't smell like cleaner it's disgusting in her mind. So I scrub to keep the peace.