Luc
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Novel QuestionI have heard about the infamous sex scene in Wicked. I'm 13 and for me that will be kind of awkward.
Could somebody give me a rough range of what pages this is on (I have the original edition without all of the musical pics and stuff in it)? I would just like to know when approximately it will be happening, as a fore-warning.
Thank you. 
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katethegreat
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I'm reading the book now, if I come across anything soon I'll let you know! Doubt it will be all that graphic though 
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happyguava
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Most of the "City of Emeralds" bit.
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Baker
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The bulk of it is in The City of Emeralds and the bit titled The Philosophy Club in Gillikin. But do note that there are sexual references throughout the novel.
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Luc
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I've already come across a few of them, but I heard that there was one particular area where there were lots of descriptions and stuff...
thanks again
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Baker
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| musikal_geek wrote: | I've already come across a few of them, but I heard that there was one particular area where there were lots of descriptions and stuff...
thanks again |
Yeah, they're referencing The Philosphy Club and The City of Emeralds.
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Glinda Upland
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Yes, The City of Emeralds is the part you should look out for. The Philosphy Club is another part .I have the one with pictures so I can't really tell you what page it starts and ends. I was only 12 when I read the book for the first time (Last year!), so I was a little freaked at first. Lol! 
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krisavalon
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It's been a while since I've read it, but I don't remember anything explicit or graphic. There were brief, scattered references of sexual activity between Fiyero and Elphaba in the scenes following Elphaba's departure from school, but the descriptions--from what I can remember--were pretty vague and mild.
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SapphireNight
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Where are you are in the book right now?
As everyone has been saying, the main sex scenes are in 'the Philosphy Club' and the large section 'The Emerald City'.
Now, the Philosphy Club is a very short section, its pretty easy to skip- one the groups card gets called out, 7 of diamonds, I believe, and they move into a small theatre (I think- I admit I skip it too), SKIP THE WHOLE SECTION TILL YOU GET TO THE NEXT SECTION . The main slightly graphic stuff is right at the end. You will realise youre there when you start to read it. Just skip to the next change of scene within the chapter, where it starts, '8- The industraliasts of Shiz, from an early stage...'
Now, there is a few sex bits spread out throught the 'City of Emeralds' chapter. You cant really skip the whole section, because there is a lot of stuff there, some important to the plot, others important to understanding chatacter. If you give me a little bit of time, I'll skim through that section of the book, and list any places which you would want to skip over. Most of it isnt graphic. A couple of places, it is a little graphic, and I will make sure you know exactly where so you cant stumble upon it by accident.
Ill list any time its mentioned, where about it is, and whether its graphic, or just a mentioning.
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ConverseSneaker
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There is also a bit in the beginning between Melena and Turtle Heart you should also watch out for.
What really digusts me is the other day, my little sister brought home a book-order from school. Wicked was included in there, and this is for elementary/middle school students! And of course, people buy it because they see the Wicked Logo on the cover, and the kids love listening to Popular, so they buy the books and the kids read them with no idea what they are in store for. They should really stop selling Wicked with the logo on the cover, and bring back the first edition cover.
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jimbothecrab
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I was going to buy the book and just flipped through to a random page and it was very graphic, I mean like WOW they can write this stuff! So keep reading and if it gets too graphic for you just skip over it. I still need to read it though, i'm going to borrow it from a friend.
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Eponine93
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Yeah, I wouldn't reccomend anyone under the age of 12. Its terribly graphic. Another book that I started reading by Gregory MacGuire is Mirror Mirror. I stopped reading it because of the part where it rather graphically describes someone having sex with a squid.
Its a shame there aren't any PG versions of McGuire's novels. I like the idea and plot of them, but besides from Wicked, never get to experience them because I don't feel comfortable reading such sexual content.
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Matthew
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The novels are amazing.
Written for adults though.
Except Son of a Witch...
That wasn't to great.
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Eponine93
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| Quote: | The novels are amazing.
Written for adults though. |
Exactly. They really should put that on the cover. Something like "This book contains sexual references and is not appropriate for people under the age of 13." Otherwise little kids who love the musical are going to read it and be shocked.
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Matthew
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Or they should just figure out that since it's not in the children's section they are taking a gamble on content.
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arctic_orange
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Hate to be the voice of reason, but books aren't like films...they don't have a rating system. Like futureMUNGOJERRIE said, Wicked will (or should, it is very strange about the kid's book order) be found in the adult section.
On another note, I strongly disagree that there should be PG versions of Maguire's books. He writes as he does for a purpose, for his own artistic vision. If you want a PG version...
Well, you have the musical don't you? 
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Matthew
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| arctic_orange wrote: | On another note, I strongly disagree that there should be PG versions of Maguire's books. He writes as he does for a purpose, for his own artistic vision. If you want a PG version...
Well, you have the musical don't you? |
The most genius thing I've ever read on this board so far.
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katethegreat
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Ok...I've just read all the Turtleheart and Time Dragon Clock introduction bits. I didn't think I'd be so suprised that kids can get hold of this content.
I know there's books that are on the top shelf in service stations that have special stickers on them, but it does make me wonder if there should be a way to stop all the little kids who like the musical from diving head first into this.
I'm definately against any publication of a censored book though. Start that train going and it'll never stop.
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arctic_orange
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^Agreed.
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DramaRobin2002
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | The novels are amazing.
Written for adults though.
Except Son of a Witch...
That wasn't to great. |
Agreed. I read the first few chapters of Son of a Witch and started to get really antsy. Have you read Lost? That's the other one that I just can't seem to get through.
On the whole children reading thing- My aunt bought the book on tape for the family to listen to in the car on a long trip, not realizing just how graphic the novel was. Luckily, she decided to screen it first. But a book being in the fiction section as opposed to the children's section isn't always a sign for a red flag to go up. Many classics that children should be exposed to can be found in the adult section. It really does disgust me that Wicked was in a children's book order catalogue. Do they not actually take time to read the book and check if it appropriate for elementary schools?
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Matthew
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| DramaRobin2002 wrote: | | Do they not actually take time to read the book and check if it appropriate for elementary schools? |
Prolly not.
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DramaRobin2002
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | DramaRobin2002 wrote: | | Do they not actually take time to read the book and check if it appropriate for elementary schools? |
Prolly not. |
That's really sad.
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Matthew
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| DramaRobin2002 wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | DramaRobin2002 wrote: | | Do they not actually take time to read the book and check if it appropriate for elementary schools? |
Prolly not. |
That's really sad. |
My mom is a teacher and said that Wicked hasn't appeared on her book orders yet.
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DramaRobin2002
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | DramaRobin2002 wrote: | | futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | DramaRobin2002 wrote: | | Do they not actually take time to read the book and check if it appropriate for elementary schools? |
Prolly not. |
That's really sad. |
My mom is a teacher and said that Wicked hasn't appeared on her book orders yet. |
Well, there is a plus. I just can't believe it would be on any list.
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katethegreat
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | | DramaRobin2002 wrote: | | Do they not actually take time to read the book and check if it appropriate for elementary schools? |
Prolly not. |
Waste time reading it and lose money? The cover will sell it - if it sells I doubt they'll mind
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Matthew
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They're probably just setting it up for a lawsuit.
Oh, us Americans and our lawsuits!
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katethegreat
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^
^
They'll make enough money off the book to make the lawsuit a fun day out!
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WhyWeTellTheStory
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skip all of page 204
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TR_Wolf
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There's references, but no amazingly graphic descriptions of the actual act, I dont know which main scene you refer to.
Although to be honest I agree that the novel was fantastic as it was without needing to make reference to sex and crotch based references etc, I didnt think it was neccessary, just added for the heck of it.
Did you check my thread on the novel? I made it so there was an official novel of musical vs book, but you can ask stuff there too
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Baker
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| TR_Wolf wrote: | | Although to be honest I agree that the novel was fantastic as it was without needing to make reference to sex and crotch based references etc, I didnt think it was neccessary, just added for the heck of it. |
I completely agree. I know they say he added them for a reason, but to me it seemed like he made characters gay because he felt like it and he made sexual references because he felt like it. It didn't feel necessary to the plot.
| TR_Wolf wrote: | | Did you check my thread on the novel? I made it so there was an official novel of musical vs book, but you can ask stuff there too |
Do NOT go into that thread if you don't want spoilers! If you don't mind knowing what will happen, it's a great thread, but if you want to be surprised at the twists and turns, that thread is dangerous. And make sure you know that the twists in the musical and novel are very different, so don't go in there expecting to know the novel's twists bsaed on the musical's twists. 
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theatre_grl
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theres sexual referances from the begging of the book till the end. i would skip it all.
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theatre_grl
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| Baker wrote: | | TR_Wolf wrote: | | Although to be honest I agree that the novel was fantastic as it was without needing to make reference to sex and crotch based references etc, I didnt think it was neccessary, just added for the heck of it. |
I completely agree. I know they say he added them for a reason, but to me it seemed like he made characters gay because he felt like it and he made sexual references because he felt like it. It didn't feel necessary. |
thats the sad thing. he added them anyway either b/c in his own twisted view he felt it would make the book better or b/c he thought it would help it sell
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luckystar_30
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He did not just add this to the book because he felt like it or to sell books. There are gay characters in the book because there are gay people in real life. duh! Its part of their characters.
As for the sex scene..well, she's essentially graduated university..I mean, when you're that age sex is a pretty standard part of life. Once you're old enough, your sexual experiences - much like any of her other non sexual experiences - become part of the makeup of her character.
Bottom line - the book is not written for 13 year olds. If you are mature and want to read it and dont mind skimming parts that make you uncomfortable - great, go for it. It's a really good book and very challenging for younger readers.
But if you feel the subject matter is a little old for you - well, wait a few years and then read it!
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SapphireNight
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Musikal_Geek, are you still reading it? I'm sorry I havent given you any more advice yet, I've been a bit busy. If you're still reading, where abouts are you, I'll have another look for sections to avoid.
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Baker
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| luckystar_30 wrote: | | He did not just add this to the book because he felt like it or to sell books. There are gay characters in the book because there are gay people in real life. duh! Its part of their characters. |
My point was that the fact that the homosexuality of the characters plays no actual role in the story.
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theatre_grl
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| Baker wrote: | | luckystar_30 wrote: | | He did not just add this to the book because he felt like it or to sell books. There are gay characters in the book because there are gay people in real life. duh! Its part of their characters. |
My point was that the fact that the homosexuality of the characters plays no actual role in the story. |
yes.
anyway, how can life in oz with talking Animals and green people be anything like real life?
also, there are many perfectly good books that dont have things that are in real life. i think thats a pretty weak arguement. he could have thrown a random pidgeon in there (just for the sake of an arguement) and claimed it was to make it more "real."
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Matthew
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| Baker wrote: | | luckystar_30 wrote: | | He did not just add this to the book because he felt like it or to sell books. There are gay characters in the book because there are gay people in real life. duh! Its part of their characters. |
My point was that the fact that the homosexuality of the characters plays no actual role in the story. |
do you have a problem with them being gay?
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Da_Dark_Dude
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^^ i sense a fight coming up 
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Matthew
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homophobia is a horrible disease.
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Da_Dark_Dude
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completely agree with you 100%, i hate gay bashing because i nearly lost a good (gay) friend to it a few months ago. u think some people would learn that there is nothing immoral or wrong about homosexuality. grrr it annoys me, and although im not gay, its still a big issue in my life because 3 of my best friends are and they go through hell everyday just to live happy lives
Steve
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Da_Dark_Dude
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plus most gay men are hilarious and make us all smile
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Matthew
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Yeah I know I do.
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Da_Dark_Dude
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cant help lovin ur attitude
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Matthew
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Thanks
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Baker
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No, I don't have a problem with gay people. I never said I did. As a writer, I see no reason for any of the characters to be gay with regard to the plot and the story. If you want to see it makes the world seem more realistic and gives it a little more depth, sure, I agree. But as far as the actual story and plot, there is no purpose in making any of the characters gay.
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Matthew
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I'm sure he was just giving the setting more depth adn the characters more depth.
It would be the same as having Asian or Italian characters.
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Emmanya
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Well if there is no reason for the characters to be gay - on the flip side there is no reason for them to be straight.
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Da_Dark_Dude
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^^ oooooooo the plot thickens
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Baker
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| futureMUNGOJERRIE wrote: | I'm sure he was just giving the setting more depth adn the characters more depth.
It would be the same as having Asian or Italian characters. |
...except there isn't really an Asia or an Italy in Oz. He does, however, have Quadlings, Munchkinlanders, etc. since these are part of the Oz canon. I'm not saying there's anything at all wrong with adding gay characters for depth or whatever, just that the story would remain exactly the same had any of the characters remained straight. The same can't be said if the straight characters were gay, however, because Elphaba wouldn't have fallen in love with Fiyero. (And yes, that is part of the plot:)
| Emmanya wrote: | | Well if there is no reason for the characters to be gay - on the flip side there is no reason for them to be straight. |
Elphaba has an affair with Fiyero, which triggers the guilt that Sarima won't forgive. This drives Elphaba crazy, which is a major source of her "wickedness." So yes, a straight relationship does impact the outcome of the story (along with Melena's straight relationships, since they obviously result in the births of Elphaba and Nessarose).
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Da_Dark_Dude
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^^ the plot dethickens
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Emmanya
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The author could have made the Fiyero character female if he'd wanted and have Sarima be male.
Having gay characters doesn't need to give a book 'depth'. Being gay doesn't make you 'deep'. It means you fancy people of the same sex. I don't see why a book having a gay person has to mean something to validate there existence in the book. Why can't it be that the character is gay...and thats it - no traumatic life story, no b plotline about there struggle for exceptance or what not...?
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Baker
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| Emmanya wrote: | | The author could have made the Fiyero character female if he'd wanted and have Sarima be male. |
And in that case, a gay relationship would be affecting the plot. But it wasn't written that way.
| Emmanya wrote: | | Having gay characters doesn't need to give a book 'depth'. Being gay doesn't make you 'deep'. It means you fancy people of the same sex. I don't see why a book having a gay person has to mean something to validate there existence in the book. Why can't it be that the character is gay...and thats it - no traumatic life story, no b plotline about there struggle for exceptance or what not...? |
I'm not saying that the characters are deep because they're gay or that they need to be deep because they're gay. Simply that the world becomes a bit more rounded (aka deep) because there's that extra touch of reality to the characters.
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