Annie
|
need to convert a friend to Sondheim...Hey All!
One of my close friends, and a fellow musical theatre lover is dead set against Sondheim. (GASP!!! I know. She's amazing, otherwise it'd be tough for me to remain friends with her.) Now, I know she really hasn't heard much of him, and is just judging on stuff she hears out of context and isn't a fan of. (i.e. Into the Woods Prologue...she thinks it sounds all over the place and un-musical...I died a little on the inside)
Now, it has become my official mission in life to convert her to a Sondheim lover, or at least "acceptor". But, where to start? A bunch of the theatre kids, she included, get together on Friday mornings to sing showtunes before class. Seems like a good time to work in some Sondheim songs. Last week, I sang "No One is Alone" for another friend of mine who isn't into Sondheim either, and he is starting to teeter over to our side. (muahaha)
Any suggestions for introducing our God to my friend? Lyrical ballads will probably do best with her. Any suggestions? I have some in mind, but I'm curious to see what you guys might suggest.
Any ideas???
thanks!
Annie 
|
OneSongGlory
|
Really, for Into the Woods - especially the prologue - you kind of have to see it up close and personal in order to understand all the stories going on in it. Shows like Sweeney Todd should be much easier for her. Have her take like 20 minutes off each day to just listen to parts of the OBCR (if she tries to listen while.. writing a paper, for example, she'll totally miss the amazingness), and she should start to move over to our side. 
|
Matthew
|
Sondheim Crusade!
|
what_the_heck013
|
Company is a great starter.
|
Ulla Dance Again!
|
^ Yes, just show her the new pictures from the production Hugh Panaro will be in and she'll be a fan of Sondheim's in no time.
All joking aside, I would agree with OSG.
Into The Woods by itself is a really cool show and the music is interesting -besides it's a whole new look on fairytales, which is pretty neat. Assassins is also a really good show, too.
|
Kaiana
|
I rather think "Johanna" (Anthony's version lol) is quite nice and isn't terribly complicated. And I don't consider it to be "un-musical".
|
Annie
|
the Sondheim Crusade is on!!
Good ideas from everyone, thanks. I'm going to try out some of the simpler Company songs (Being Alive, Sorry/Grateful), maybe some Follies (Losing My Mind...the standards), Johanna is one of my favorite Sondheim songs, I'm definitely going for that one. Not While I'm Around as well. She DID admit today that she likes "I Remember" (progress!!).
I'd try out "Unworthy of Your Love" on a friday morning if I could just get my hands on it...
any more ideas? thanks for them all so far!
Annie
|
Ulla Dance Again!
|
I just thought of another good song from Sweeney you can use -
"Kiss Me/Ladies In Their Sensetivities"
It's a catchy sort of number, too. I believe there's a clip of it roaming around YouTube with Hugh Panaro as Anthony.
|
Savoyard
|
Rather than trying to pick our personal favorites to convert her, perhaps a better approach would be to find out what musical theatre she already likes and then introduce her to the Sondheim music most like that to get her started, and then slip in the rest.
|
Hans
|
Aww. I've tried this. Many times. Wish I knew how to make it work 
|
Salome
|
Merrily We Roll Along has some of sondheim's most "Broadway" sounding music to the common listener. easy melodies, "catchy" and it ranges the gambit of styles from comedy numbers to ballads to soloiloquys.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
Perhaps ease her into Sondheim by making her aware of what musicals he collaborated with someone on...
Like WSS or Gypsy...(to which he wrote the lyrics)
|
Salome
|
| jazzygirlsings wrote: | Perhaps ease her into Sondheim by making her aware of what musicals he collaborated with someone on...
Like WSS or Gypsy...(to which he wrote the lyrics) |
yeah but WSS is so creaky nowadays. and it doesnt show Sondheim's lyric writing at its best.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
^no...but it is a nice transitional piece...into what he does AMAZINGLY well...
|
Salome
|
Gypsy would be better than WSS. Gypsy is sondheim as a great lyricist.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
Hey, Ding-Dong...I MENTIONED Gypsy, too! I was giving EXAMPLE(S)...that's plural!
Sometimes you can be so obtuse! LOL!
|
Salome
|
I know you mentioned Gypsy...but i wouldnt have mentioned WSS at all! lol
|
Pounce
|
See if you can borrow (if you don't already own them) the videos of Into the Woods and Sweeney Todd. I think those show Sondheim at his best and they have more mass appeal. Sunday in the Park With George would probably be too much and is too esoteric.
|
Lazarus (Adam G)
|
I won't comment. 
|
Annie
|
| Lazarus (Adam G) wrote: | | I won't comment. |
thanks. ha.
Yep, the DVDs came to mind. I own the box set (teehee), but there's no way she'd sit through one. This is a tough one to crack, guys! Great idea with Merrily We Roll Along, Salome. I'll try to find some sheetmusic. I've been hitting up musicnotes.com hardcore in search of some stuff to bring in for Friday Morning Sing-Alongs. It's got to be sort of subliminal, I can't push it. I just have to sing some songs or get others to do some with me on Fridays, and just have her hear them and ask me about them. Haha. That's the goal.
friend of mine: "wow, what a gorgeous song. Who is it?"
me: "the one and only Stephen Sondheim, my dear."
friend of mine: "..."
Ok, that's the goal.
thanks for the ideas! keep 'em coming, if you can think of anything else!
Annie 
|
Pounce
|
| broadway_kid wrote: | | Lazarus (Adam G) wrote: | | I won't comment. |
thanks. ha. |
??? ???
| Quote: | | Yep, the DVDs came to mind. I own the box set (teehee), but there's no way she'd sit through one. This is a tough one to crack, guys! |
Wow, I'd give up. If she won't bother to give either ST or ITW a chance then spend your time more productively doing something else. But again, don't try SitPWG. It might set her back from Sondheim for years.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
I love a lot of his songs from "Evening Primrose"...she might find "I Remember Sky" to be very pretty...
|
qpidsangel
|
Sing Getting Married Today from Company, most of my non MT thinks its absolutely hilarious.
|
norayouadora
|
Hm, though you said she prefers ballad-y type songs, I'd play something simpler for her at first. Many people get turned off by Sondheim because the music is so complicated that they find it confusing or just generally irritating because it's all over the place--you already said that she didn't like the ItW prologue because of this, so I'd suggest playing something more light and upbeat. I like the idea of playing Assassins for her; I'd recommend "the Ballad of Booth." When I hum that song around friends (which is often because somehow it's always stuck in my head), they usually ask what it is. It's just so darn catchy. Lol. "Unworthy of Your Love" is a great song, too, of course.
I also like your idea of introducing her to some of the individual songs rather than dumping an entire CR on her and forcing her to listen to it. You could definitely play "Send in the Clowns," for example--she may even already know this song. Or "Anyone Can Whistle" is a good, ballad-y type song, not too complicated or overwhelming. Yeah?
Good luck with this quest! Godspeed! Lol.
|
opheliarose
|
Try something from Forum. It's a lot more hummable than later works.
'Sides, how can you NOT love "everybody ought to have a maid..."
|
The REAL Ciaron
|
Salome I love you!! Always have. You could not be more right about everything you said. WSS is NOT a good way to introduce Sondheim. He, himself, regrets most of his work on the show. If you have to start this friend of yours on a show where Sondheim does not do the music you MUST choose Gypsy.
This is how you get someone who likes cheesy musicals to like Sondheim.
1. Play them Patti Lupones "Being Alive" from the Carnegie Hall. Non Sondheim fans seem to love this.
2. Merrily We Roll Along is a great starter.
3. Start from the earliest (besides Merrily)and go forward. "Company's" music is amazing and "Follies" is full of pastiche songs. "Night Music" has "The Millers Son", "You Must Meet My Wife" and "Send in the Clowns" which won't frighten her/him away.
4. As much as I hate to say it. "Into the Woods" will make them a true fan once they listen to the others I mentioned. The lyrics to that show are incredible and most importantly....FUN!
5. DO NOT start with "George" or "Passion"
6. I didn't mention "Sweeney" cause I can't bare it when people hate that show.
|
Pounce
|
| The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Salome I love you!! Always have. You could not be more right about everything you said. WSS is NOT a good way to introduce Sondheim. He, himself, regrets most of his work on the show. |
You're kidding. WSS did well on Broadway and the movie was a huge hit.
|
Salome
|
| Pounce wrote: | | The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Salome I love you!! Always have. You could not be more right about everything you said. WSS is NOT a good way to introduce Sondheim. He, himself, regrets most of his work on the show. |
You're kidding. WSS did well on Broadway and the movie was a huge hit. |
Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show.
|
The REAL Ciaron
|
| Salome wrote: | | Pounce wrote: | | The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Salome I love you!! Always have. You could not be more right about everything you said. WSS is NOT a good way to introduce Sondheim. He, himself, regrets most of his work on the show. |
You're kidding. WSS did well on Broadway and the movie was a huge hit. |
Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
Thank you Salome! I love WSS (hate the movie though). It's just not Sondheim at his best.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
| The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Salome wrote: | | Pounce wrote: | | The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Salome I love you!! Always have. You could not be more right about everything you said. WSS is NOT a good way to introduce Sondheim. He, himself, regrets most of his work on the show. |
You're kidding. WSS did well on Broadway and the movie was a huge hit. |
Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
Thank you Salome! I love WSS (hate the movie though). It's just not Sondheim at his best. |
Yes, but it is Sondheim in one of his more recognizable works to non-Sonheimites...LOL!
Even if it admittedly isn't his best, it is usually a work that people who claim they don't like Sondheim tend to like...And they may not have realized he had a hand in its creation, oftentimes.
But, like you said, Gypsy is probably best...I just wouldn't be too hasty to write off WSS, simply because it IS recognizable and is popular and a lot of people (even if Sondheim himself didn't like it) like it.
|
Salome
|
the only reason I dont reccomend it is because it doesnt give someone who doesnt know Sondheim an idea of what he can do at all.
|
ConverseSneaker
|
| The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | I love WSS (hate the movie though). It's just not Sondheim at his best. |
I had a sub teacher, that whenever he was the sub for music, he would make us watch that movie, so eventually I grew to hate it. Sad, but true, WSS just has never appealed to me.
|
The REAL Ciaron
|
| jazzygirlsings wrote: | | The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Salome wrote: | | Pounce wrote: | | The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Salome I love you!! Always have. You could not be more right about everything you said. WSS is NOT a good way to introduce Sondheim. He, himself, regrets most of his work on the show. |
You're kidding. WSS did well on Broadway and the movie was a huge hit. |
Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
Thank you Salome! I love WSS (hate the movie though). It's just not Sondheim at his best. |
Yes, but it is Sondheim in one of his more recognizable works to non-Sonheimites...LOL!
Even if it admittedly isn't his best, it is usually a work that people who claim they don't like Sondheim tend to like...And they may not have realized he had a hand in its creation, oftentimes.
But, like you said, Gypsy is probably best...I just wouldn't be too hasty to write off WSS, simply because it IS recognizable and is popular and a lot of people (even if Sondheim himself didn't like it) like it. |
Yeah but chances are her friend already knows WSS and if they don't they really have no business listening to MT. When people think of "Sondheim" they tend to think of the shows where he wrote both music and lyrics.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
That is true, but I do find that shows like Gypsy are a nice transition into introducing her to the "whole enchilada" that is Sondheim! LOL!
Many people who may be familiar with the songs from those shows may not be aware that Sondheim wrote the lyrics to them...
If she needs to be converted to Sondheim anyway, how much musical theatre has she been exposed to in the first place...I would venture to say not much...
|
what_the_heck013
|
| Salome wrote: | | Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
It's because it's NOT a Sondheim show. It's a Leonard Bernstein/Jerome RObbins show.
|
Pounce
|
| what_the_heck013 wrote: | | Salome wrote: | | Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
It's because it's NOT a Sondheim show. It's a Leonard Bernstein/Jerome RObbins show. |
The lyricist deserves credit too. Personally, I think none of Sondheim's musical scores could match what Bernstein did with WSS.
|
Salome
|
| Pounce wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: | | Salome wrote: | | Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
It's because it's NOT a Sondheim show. It's a Leonard Bernstein/Jerome RObbins show. |
The lyricist deserves credit too. Personally, I think none of Sondheim's musical scores could match what Bernstein did with WSS. |
its a sondheim.bernstein,laurents show.
and Sondheim writes better music for theatre productions than bernstien. bernstien was a master at classical music . actually Candide's music suprasses his WSS work.
|
Pounce
|
| Salome wrote: | | Pounce wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: | | Salome wrote: | | Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
It's because it's NOT a Sondheim show. It's a Leonard Bernstein/Jerome RObbins show. |
The lyricist deserves credit too. Personally, I think none of Sondheim's musical scores could match what Bernstein did with WSS. |
its a sondheim.bernstein,laurents show. |
Bernstein/Sondheim, music precedes lyrics.
| Quote: | | and Sondheim writes better music for theatre productions than bernstien. bernstien was a master at classical music . actually Candide's music suprasses his WSS work. |
I'm not familiar with Candide but Bernstein's WSS score is an awesome work.
|
Salome
|
music doesnt preceed lyrics. what world are you living in? music can mean anything without the lyrics...a bad lyric can kill a good melody or a poor melody can be made thoughtful,funny or procvacative by a brilliant lyric.
look at the pulizer prize..if am musical wins it goes to the lyricist and book writer..not the composer.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
Pounce, I think you would really love Candide! You should give it a listen! (And I believe the performances have been recorded on DVD, but I could be wrong...)
|
Salome
|
the best candide to get is the revival with JIm Dale,Harolyn Blackwell,Andrea Martin and Brent Barrett.
|
Pounce
|
| Salome wrote: | music doesnt preceed lyrics. what world are you living in? music can mean anything without the lyrics...a bad lyric can kill a good melody or a poor melody can be made thoughtful,funny or procvacative by a brilliant lyric.
look at the pulizer prize..if am musical wins it goes to the lyricist and book writer..not the composer. |
Perhaps, but from my recollection, when giving a show's credits, the composer is always listed before the lyricist.
|
jazzygirlsings
|
Now everyone's just getting into semantics... 
|
The REAL Ciaron
|
| Pounce wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: | | Salome wrote: | | Being a hit doesnt make a show good. Not that WSS is bad. its just not a good example of a great sondheim show. |
It's because it's NOT a Sondheim show. It's a Leonard Bernstein/Jerome RObbins show. |
The lyricist deserves credit too. Personally, I think none of Sondheim's musical scores could match what Bernstein did with WSS. |
"A Little Night Music"
|
Salome
|
| Pounce wrote: | | Salome wrote: | music doesnt preceed lyrics. what world are you living in? music can mean anything without the lyrics...a bad lyric can kill a good melody or a poor melody can be made thoughtful,funny or procvacative by a brilliant lyric.
look at the pulizer prize..if am musical wins it goes to the lyricist and book writer..not the composer. |
Perhaps, but from my recollection, when giving a show's credits, the composer is always listed before the lyricist. |
Lerner was laways billed before lowe, brecht always billed before weill, Hammerstein and Kern switched top billing depending on the show.
|
