[Mistress]

If you guys remember, I was doing a presuausive speech on how stage musicals are better than film adaptations for my Speech class. I just wanted your ideas on what I plan to use for visiuals. Of course I will have an overhead of a conversation on here...probably the one from the Sweeney Todd forum on Bleeders, as well as some clips to show the quality of film and stage adaptations of the same show. Mainly, I was going to use Kiss Me in terms of bad editing choices (I'd use Mea Culpa, but I think it would would turn the girls in the audience off) and compare a Cadenza/final line from POTO. First off, I can't decide whether to use the Think of Me cadenza or the POTO cadenza (I'm using the film and OCC). Secondly, I"m also debating using a simlar camparison with Sweeney Todd using the the Depp film and george Hearn film, b ut I think it may be too much. The whole presentation is to be a min of 10min and max of 15, visuals included (he times the video clips and stuff). 60% of the time should be for the actual speech and 40% should be for visuals.

What do you guys think? What should I use and what should I leave out?

[Salome]

Kiss me was best left out of the film. thats an example of good editing.

[actor]

[Salome]

musically you shouldnt be comparing it.

Rossum sucked yes..but more for her lack of acting than her singing.

Brightman sucked as well..due to her lack of acting.

[actor]

[Salome]

canadian recording is good..well as good as Phantom is. Rebecca Caine is a good actress and strong singer.

[Mistress]

Which is why I'm using it (that and the fact that it's what I own) I sorta wanted to show the Rossum was out of her range doing Christine which is why the POTO candenza works so well, but Caine's Think of Me candenza is just brillinat...but also vocally different fromt hr one Rossum did (I belive Rossum did the original and Caine did the longer London version, or something like that)...I'm basically working with what I already have, and what I know I can get (the Hearn/Lansbury film). I really don't want to be running around trying to hunt down half a dozen items, so I'm using what I already have, which is basically Sweeney Todd and POTO...I know Todd wasn't actually a bad film like POTO was (I still like it, although nowhere near as much as I did in my fandom days), but I just wanted to show the difference between trained Broadway singers, amateur celebrity singers, not much else, except perheps the cutting out of good parts...perhaps, the Ballads would be a better choice than Kiss Me...or the absantee chorus members?

[Yip1982]

Do you intend to use any examples of the R&H film musicals? I do hope you can talk about how the King and I and Sound of Music films were models in how Broadway musicals should be adapted for the screen. Yet I know there are some flaws, most notably in the films of Carousel, though I can't exactly tell why there are flaws.

[Mistress]

I'm supposed to peruade people that film musicals are extremly poor compared to thier stage counterparts...specifically my thesis is that you loose the magic, the mastery and and intimacy and prestige(being part of a selct group of coinesseurs, I guess) so as you can expect it's going to be a very one-sided speech.

[Salome]

But they ATENT extremely poor compared ot their stage counterparts.

you will always have bad film versions of musicals...but you also have extremely brilliant ones.

Some filMs surpass their stage parent....look at Oliver as an example.

Its not that the film versions are inferior...its just that many film directors dont understand that to do a film based on am usical you need to adapt it (Tim Burton and Rob marshall understood this idea..aRTHUR hILLER DIDNT.)

[JIJane]

"Some filMs surpass their stage parent....look at Oliver as an example."

According to those people I know who saw the film as well as the original West End production, they all said the stage show beat the film every time. Mainly because of Georgia Brown. The film was a tad "rosy candy" apparently.

[Salome]

The film is much darker and more Dickensian than its stage counterpart.
the screenplay is more intellegent and much better written thna its stage counterpart.
true Georgia brown was THE Nancy to beat and no one has surpassedher yet.but as a whole the film is generally accepted as improving on the stage material.
especially in character development, song placement and direction.

[JIJane]

I don't know. I saw the 1996 West End production and for me that surpassed the film. I don't know about productions in the States, as I have obviously never seen one there. But the Brits sure know how to put Oliver on the stage - although I have grave doubts regarding this upcoming production.

The best film version of Oliver is still the original black and white (non musical) one.

[Salome]

I saw the same production..Jim Dale,Sally Dexter..directed by Sam Mendes..it was wonderful..but didnt you notice the dialouge rewrites based on the film?


and I do like the B&W Alec Guinness "Oliver Twist" but its missing too much. I prefer the PBS min series version with Robert Lindsay.

[Mistress]

woah there...I know that not all film adaptations are bad, but that is my thesis right now, so that's the side I have to persuade people to....it's noty so much that film versions are bad, but that seeing something on stage is a greater experience than simply watching it on film.

It's a persuasive speech, so I have to take a side and prove it...even if it isn't 100% accurate.

[JIJane]

Ah THAT'S why the dialogue was different! I thought there was a change but then I thought it was just me going mad. I didn't see Sally Dexter though, I saw Sonia Swaby (whom I liked very much). I just love the orchestration of that version of Oliver, apparently they will be using it in this new production to come, I really hope so!

Ah yes I had forgotten about the Robert Lindsay PBS mini version...that was pretty good too. I love Robert Lindsay, he is just great in My Family (do you get that British comedy series over in the US?).

[Monsieur D'Arque]

Consider Reefer Madness.

The 2001 Off-Broadway production was very different from the movie. When the movie turned out to be almost perfect, the show was rewritten to be much, much more like the film. It's flawless now.

[Elphaba22]

consider Grease too. imo I like the OBC recording best, because I like a lot of the songs they removed for the film and I like All Choked Up better than You're the One that I Want, but Grease became much more popular with the movie. A lot of people just haven't heard the OBC.
Think about A Chorus Line too, the ACL movie blew, but I enjoyed the show when I saw it on stage.

[fjays]

perhaps you should say how like with the rent movie, that having in a movie the set is more realistic and close to life, which changes how the show is seen and changes it.. because stage shows are supposed to take you somewhere, show you something different.. if you understand what i mean. . .?

[Beagle On Stage]

The best example imaginable is the train wreck that was the film version of "The Fantasticks," but you may not have easy access to that already.
Though if you can get your hands on it with any reasonable ease, your thesis is infallible. It demonstrates a show extremely successful because of its theatrical nature completely bombing when you try to film it concretely and eliminate the abstract elements.

Another possibility is "Evita" - you could show that what works in live theatre doesn't work on film because it comes across as boring. Specifically, all the flashback clips they use to give us something to look at. You can just have Eva stand onstage and sing, but that would be boring as all hell on film.

I agree that "Sweeney Todd" probably isn't a great choice for this because that's an example of a stage show transferring to film quite well.

If you're using "Phantom" for sure, I would go with the clip from the title song. I remember thinking that Emmy Rossum didn't even sound like a human voice on the final note, but a synthesised violin. Hold that up next to Rebecca Caine's rendition, and you're fine.

[Mistress]

Thanks, will do...and I think I will use Sweeney Todd, simply to show that songs, for bad or good, get lost on the cutting room floor, so you don't have the complete thing in a movie, nor the original. No matter if it works or not, it's never going to be the same on film.