Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| bobd |
Need Help--creating english subs for Chess Pa Svenska DVDHi there, friends. I've been a long time reader of this board, but I've just now registered.I've been working on English subtitles for the Chess Pa Svenska DVD for some time now. I've done all the subs for songs that are clearly just Swedish translations of Tim Rice's original lyrics. And I've even started dabbling with translating some of the newer songs and little sung bits. For example, I've come up with lyrics for Florence's new little verse before the flashback to the fall of Budapest. For the new songs, or songs that seem to require adjusted lyrics, I'm working from the translated libretto that's been floating around on the net for some time. But I need help with the spoken dialog--the "book." I hope some kind soul reading this who can speak (or at least understand) Swedish can please listen to the spoken dialog on the DVD and send me a word-for-word translation. I'll then take that and create a more readable and flowing English translation. This is obviously not a commercial venture (I plan to release this for free via various file-sharing outlets), so I can't pay anything. I can send you a copy of the DVD now if you need one. You'll get part credit for the translation, and you'll get a copy of the finished project on DVD. If you're interested, please post here, or send me an email at: chesstranslation@gmail.com Here are some screen-grabs to give you an idea of how things are progressing: 
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| operafantomet |
OPENING SCENE before STORY OF CHESS:
GRANDMOTHER: Mischa, my little professor BOY: Hi, grandma GRANDMOTHER: How was school? BOY: Good GRANDMOTHER: Good, good.... 8 x 8? BOY: ....8? GRANDMOTHER: (laughs) No... BOY: 88? GRANDMOTHER: (laughs) No. BOY: 888? GRANDMOTHER: Nooo (chuckles) SVETLANA: Tolja! Tolja! (?) Anatolij, why won't you give me an answer? ANATOLIJ: (to the son) Hi Mischa BOY: Hi daddy ANATOLIJ: (to Svetlana) Impossible question! SVETLANA: Why is it such an impossible question? Huh? Why is everything so impossible nowadays?!? ANATOLIJ: Bad timing/wrong occation (Fel tidspunkt) SVETLANA: But why can't I go with you? ANATOLIJ: It's impossible, and you know it. SVETLANA: (sighs) Yes, what do I know? Nothing! How am I to know what you're doing on your travels... ANATOLIJ: My TRAVELS? SVETLANA: Yes, I've never been to the West(ern world) ANATOLIJ: I play chess! SVETLANA: Uh-huh.... And what more? ANATOLIJ: Nothing more. SVETLANA: Is that so? I can never be where you are. My life is no fun! ANATOLIJ: A chess tournament isn't exactly fun either! SVETLANA: Then why to you go? ANATOLIJ: It's a championship! (looks at the son) A world championship, and you know darn well they'll never allow you to come with me, you, or Mischa, or your mother, or her mother, or God knows who.... SVETLANA: You don't give a shit about me or my (your?) family! ANATOLIJ: That's not true! SVETLANA: You don't!! ANATOLIJ: Svetlana... SVETLANA: (?????) (she's pushing the chess board onto the floor) Here you go! I'm sorry if I got any of Svetlanas dialogue wrong. Josefin Nilsson has a terrible diction and it doesn't help that she's trying to transform her lovely southern dialect into "stage language". She sounds like a Norwegian trying to speak Swedish.... 
For example this phrase: "You don't give a shit about me or your family!" - I'm not sure if she's ASKING "how can you not give a shit about..." or if she's accusing him "You don't give a shit about ...". The meaning is the same, but I just cannot tell which way she's saying it. In that same line it's hard to determine whether she sais "min familj" (MY family) or "din familj" (YOUR family). And that last line....? I THINk she's saying "You know what (and then a name?)", but I', not sure on that one. Hopefully someone else will fill me in. ETA: I forgot the lines after the song: ANATOLIJ: God be with you GRANDMOTHER: Goodbye, Tolja (?) ANATOLIJ: Goodbye, (Ana Petrovna?) BOY: You're winning the game, right, daddy? ANATOLIJ: Give me a kiss! |
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| bobd |
Excellent work, operafantomet. Thank you very much. This is exactly what I need. I hope you can keep adding to this.
Again, than you very much. |
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| Jekkienumber24601 |
you know the songs have a different english translation then the one we're used to. | ||||||||||
| bobd |
I'm aware that the songs are not word-for-word the same in Swedish. But these are songs in verse--basically a poem. You can't translate a poem word-for-word into another language and retain its original beauty. And the translation we see (posted here by endgame) shows us what in MANY cases appears to be English lyrics translated into Swedish and then back into English. Let's look at a few examples. The original Tim Rice lyrics from The Story of Chess:
This bit is then translated into Swedish, and then is translated back into English thusly:
How about the American's first lines?
Then into Swedish and back to English we get:
There are many instances of this. The lyrics are basically the same, but they're being put through too many filters. It's kind of like that game where you whisper a sentence into someone's ear, and then she whispers it into another, and so on. After it goes through several ears, the resulting sentence is a bit corrupted from the original. Whenever possible, I'm going to defer to Rice's original lyrics. Sometimes this won't work either because of wholly new songs that Rice never wrote English lyrics for at all yet, or because the action of the story doesn't fit well with the original lyrics (like the hotel staff yelling at the police during "Endgame.") In these cases, I'll still attempt to base my lyrics on other Rice lyrics from Chess. And sometimes, I'll have to create wholly new lyrics. God help me. |
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| operafantomet |
At the top of my head... I seem to recall that much of the chorus songs are not too far, lyric wise, from the English originals, while you should be a bit careful about the solo numbers.
And you're quite welcome about the translations. I'll add stuff if I have the time. 
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| Cadriel |
You really ought to use the translations of the Swedish songs; they're not necessarily saying the same things. Now, they sort of disappeared from the Web but some google fu and the Internet Archive have led me to copies of the translations:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050123062412/http://members.lycos.co.uk/basically_tommy/chess_transl.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20040427153003/members.lycos.co.uk/basically_tommy/chess_transl2.htm (Act I stuff in first link, Act II in second.) |
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| Cadriel |
Here's a translation (it was a little rough) I had done a couple years ago of the scene around "Inte Jag":
(Florence is at the bar. She has just spoken with the Arbiter and ordered a drink.) Anatoly: Can I sit? Florence: Yes...no...I was just about to go. (A waiter brings her drink.) Anatoly: Me too. (Pause.) In old days I used to be miserable at seeming ridiculous. Not seeming, but being. I have always been ridiculous, and I have known it, perhaps, from the hour I was born. Perhaps from the time I was seven years old I knew I was ridiculous. Afterwards I went to school, studied at the university, and, do you know, the more I learned, the more thoroughly I understood that I was ridiculous. So that it seemed in the end as though all the sciences I studied at the university existed only to prove and make evident to me as I went more deeply into them that I was ridiculous. It was the same with life as it was with science. With every year the same consciousness of the ridiculous figure I cut in every relation grew and strengthened. Everyone always laughed at me. But not one of them knew or guessed that if there were one man on earth who knew better than anybody else that I was absurd, it was myself!* (A pause. Florence makes a face as if she finds it quite funny.) Florence: Nej...Chekhov? Anatoly: Dostoyevsky. (Pause.) Your father was arrested? Florence: Yes... Anatoly: Did you ever see him again? Florence: No... Anatoly: It was a long time after the uprising in Hungary before we got to know what it was that happened. I was twelve years old. My father taught mathematics at the University of Leningrad. One of his colleagues was Hungarian...he taught economics. One day, in the cafeteria, he became pale as a corpse and fell down in line behind a student who was waiting to get food**. He pulled two large shelves with glass and porcelain with him when he fell. My father helped him in another room where he got...he layed down and made himself well, and then told his story. (Anatoly now sings "Lärarens historia.") Anatoly: How long have you known Freddie Trumper? Florence: Eight years. Anatoly: Eight happy years? Florence: That's my business! Anatoly: Yes, that's obvious. Forgive me... I don't know what got*** into me. I sincerely beg your pardon. **** I get***** to wish a... a good night. Good night! Florence: Do you think I let him treat me however he wants? (She sings "Inte jag") Florence: My name is Florence Shiela Vassy. Anatoly: Yes, I'm sorry. My name is Anatoly. Come, come with me! Quickly! Come, come! * This is not a translation of what Anatoly actually says. Rather, it's Constance Garnett's translation of the same passage from Dostoyevsky's "The Dream of a Ridiculous Man." Quite different. ** I'm unsure about the precise meanings in the second clause of this sentence ("fell down" onward). *** Literally "flew." **** Literally "I ask so much for your pardon." ***** Not sure on this one - is får önsak an idiomatic expression I don't know? |
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| Cadriel |
This is a translation (much clearer) I'd done of the dialogue before "Glöm mig om du kan":
Molokov: An old dachshund. Is that how you see me? Anatoly: Where is Mischa? Molokov: Maybe I am an old dachshund, maybe I don't want all the newfangledness to take me... Anatoly: Where is Mischa? Where is he? Molokov: You wonder where your son is. I can say this here: Your egotistical dreams of freedom make it so* that he cannot be where you are. Anatoly: Don't talk crap! Molokov: You have accepted the western ideology very quickly. Think of yourself first and foremost. Anatoly: Are you trying to defame me? Of course, that is ridiculous! You know me. We have known each other for fifteen years. I have toiled, been loyal, managed my undertaking. The Party has had great pleasure from me. It has used my name in very important contexts. I have toured constantly, played exhibition matches with hundreds of local chess lovers, met thousands of workers, Party functionaries, students. Dedicated years of my life to the People's interest. I have been Russian Master three times and gotten a recognition "Special Merit of the Soviet Citizens." So now I thought of myself? I still live in a two-room apartment in a suburb of Moscow, with a wage that can scarcely support my family. Molokov: So your defection was done for your family? Anatoly: In the first place, my son. Molokov: So conveninent! Anatoly: You...who were a ---- bachelor your whole life. You will not sit there and moralise over my marriage! (Molokov sings "Glöm mig om du kan.") Molokov: So you want to have your son, but not your wife? How will we be able to orient ourselves in this muddle of whims and sudden gushes of emotion? Anatoly: What do you mean? Molokov: I am worried for you. These last days I don't recognize you. You've worked in extreme pressure. Anatoly: Are you trying to make an idiot out of me? Just so so! Good luck! Yes, mental orderlies surely already wait outside of here with morphine-filled needles and a straitjacket? Molokov: Maybe so. Anatoly: You're a great humorist. I've always thought so. Molokov: Now, listen carefully. The next game will be the last. You lose to Trumper. You give up. Since your state of health precludes keeping up the fight for the world champion's title, you come to fly to a hospital in Moscow even tonight. You are the first to concede that your nocturnal visit to the American consulate, where during the stir you applied for political asylum, there occurred a loss of sensibility...in combination with a great intake of alcohol. You regret all the difficulty you have made...and take back your asylum request, effective immediately. As far as Miss Vassy is concerned, she will be kept under supervision, that is all. What will happen to your family, if you choose to stay in the West, I think you understand! Anatoly: When do I get to see my son? Molokov: You question me, an old dachshund? *more literally "cause" |
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| bobd |
Thanks everyone for all the great help. Cadriel, that stuff is priceless.
Maybe I'll create 2 versions of the subs--one with the literal translation and one with Rice's original lyrics used whenever possible. I still think using the original lyrics as much as possible makes more sense, but I guess there are plenty of people who would like to see exactly what is being said. One question for all you kind souls who understand Swedish: In Chess Pa Svenska, are Florence and Freddie meant to be lovers or former lovers? Or are they just understood to be colleagues? I can't quite tell form the action on stage. |
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| bobd |
Can we post youtube links here? Here is the first couple minutes of the DVD with my subs (thanks to all who have helped so far).
Needless to say this is all very rough and subject to change. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpD3Cz3krZI |
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| operafantomet |
I'd say definitely lovers in the beginning of the show, breaking up in the beginning of the second act. I need to listen to the DVD again to get the details you're unsure about. But at the top of my head - får önsak? You're sure it's not "Jag ber om ursäkt" - "forgive me"? |
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| Jekkienumber24601 |
post the whole thing. this is awesome to actually understand the dialouge now. |
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| bobd |
Here's a little more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss7j8d6p8Bc | ||||||||||
| bobd |
pity the child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC65ovZrjfw | ||||||||||
| bobd |
This one is kinda cool. I took the same clip from "Merano" and showed how it will look with both the literal Swedish translation and the actual Tim Rice lyrics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VszodVDOmnY |
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| Jekkienumber24601 |
yeah, literal is better. It matches their facial expressions and acting. going with original lyrics for Florence's part goes against her character anyway. |
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| Cadriel |
I think this is really one of the strongest arguments in favor of using translated Swedish lyrics throughout. Freddie's lyric doesn't go too far off the mark up until "och en omisskännlig stank av korruption" at the end; it doesn't make sense for him to be making the gesture he does on "and the money's sky high" and the words "stank" and "korruption" sound like their English cognates. Florence is totally off - even if you don't hear "Aristoteles" right, it just doesn't make a lot of sense for Florence to be singing those lines so angrily. Pretty much anywhere that song material is actually being used constructively in the scene, it's going to produce incongruities to use the original Rice lyrics. I don't think it's a great idea to go half and half, so I have to think that using the translated Swedish lyrics throughout would provide the best subtitled work. |
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| bobd |
Well, I'm going to include both tracks on the release, so people can decide which to watch. And though I tend to favor the original lyrics, I did enjoy seeing the literal translation more than I thought I would. | ||||||||||
| oknihcap |
Hi - this is my first post here. I just wanted to say I'm very glad to see you've taken on this project. I have just watched the DVD for the first time, and I enjoyed it very much, but I live in the U.S., and couldn't understand anything. I see from your samples on youtube there is a rather striking difference between the original lyrics and the Swedish translation. I can't believe that the creators of the DVD didn't think to provide subtitles. I guess I'm just glad that it's on DVD at least. I wait anxiously for your subtitled version to be completed. Unfortunately, I cannot offer any assistance. How much have you completed now? | ||||||||||
| High-baritonne |
Why can't you just translate the swedish lyrics to match with the singing?
Not literal translations, but very close, but also so you can sing it in english? |