[Belle]

A new game, folks! (game = blatant information digging.... )

I'm setting up a section of my site dedicated to character galleries, a page for each character in Cats. I've done similar for Starlight Express and it's been most useful, but those trains are a lot easier to identify on sight!

I'm looking at names at the moment. Can anyone tell me where these names came from?
Jemima
Victoria
Carbucketty (a letter?)
Cassandra
Tantomile
Etcetera (a play on words following Electra?)

Has there ever been as consensus on the Nameless Brown Queen/Hisperia/Summer? Or in fact, names attached to any other swing costumes?

And now the visual round... These pics are from the centre spread of the London 1990 cast. My problem is spotting Victor and George among the swings! Can anyone put a character, or an actor, name to the kitty? (there's another unidentified costume in this brochure who's not in this centrefold... I'm so confused!)

1 - Carbucketty?


2


3


4


5 - Admetus? fancy makeup?


6


7 - Bill Bailey?


8


9 - Nameless Brown Queen?


10

[Patrick]

NAME THAT CAT

[Rumblepurr]

NAMES:
Jemima - Hebrew - means "Dove" (oldest of three daughters of Job).
Victoria - Latin - means "Victory" (Could also just be a reference to Queen Victoria).
Carbucketty (a letter?) - compound name (*)
Cassandra - Greek - means "Shining upon man"
Tantomile - compound name (*)
Etcetera (a play on words following Electra?) - Latin - means "And the rest"

(*) = I believe TSE made up these two names. Someone, I think, has the information on how these two names were created... For example, Tantomile could have been named after TANITH - Semitic for "serpent lady"

Rumblepurr
The Writer Cat.

[Rumpleteazer4760]

Tantomile is a name which I believe means "A witch's cat".

[Moongewl]

I'm pretty sure Cassandra and Etcetera were names that simply got created for the show. Cassandra is obviously taken from Greek mythology(following in the "Plato, Admetus, Electra, Demeter" category that got used for filler names) and Etcetera just doesn't seem Eliotlike at all, more like someone thought it sounded like a good random name. If I'm correct, it's doubtful you'll ever get real confirmation on who decided those names went into Cats.

[gottagodisco]

1. Jonathan Craig - Carbuckety
2. David Olton - Swing Costume
3. Robert Yeal - Swing Costume
4. Steven Wayne - George
5. Connor Byrne - Swing Costume
6. Neil Rose - Victor
7. Darren MGarry - Bill Bailey
8. Beth Robson - Swing Costume
9. Nicola Keen - Swing Costume
10. Samantha Biddulph - Swing Costume.

Hope This Helps !

[Belle]

Gottagodisco - That is brilliant! Thanks!

Rumblepurr - thanks for the info, but I was wondering more why was the young innocent kitten called Jemima? Victoria I can hazard a guess is named after the Queen, being a pure, regal little creature. Why were those names used for the show? I'm putting a section on each character's page where their name comes from, Mungojerrie of course has his poem, Munkustrap has The Naming of Cats, etc.

Moongewl, I think you're right about Cassandra. Rumpleteazer, might Tantomile have been mentioned in a letter as well as Carbucketty?

[Little_Nell]

I remember reading that Tantomile was a name for a witch's cat in either a programme or the Cats book and I have a feeling that probably did come from one of TSE's letters.

Thinking that Rumblepurr was probably right by saying that Tantomile was a 'compound' name, I had a quick search for 'Tanto' on google and apparently a Tantō is a Japanese knife/dagger. Who knows if that has anything to do with it but I thought it was interesting nonetheless. *shrugs*

The 'mile' part always makes me think of either 'mild' or 'camomile', which I guess kind of fits the character... she seems to be quite sensitive and gentle.

I've always loved the name Etcetera but I agree with Moongewl that it doesn't sound like a TSE name. It does however seem to describe the character perfectly... a little off on a tangent, random and in turn a bit silly.

[Alonza0]

Tantomile and Carbucketty are names from T. S. Eliot's repitoire - Tantomile is the witch's cat and Carbucketty is a knock-about cat. Info from here: http://cats.users5.50megs.com/toppage17.htm
Etcetera is probably just a name thought up for a swing, spawning off of et cetra, more commonly known as etc.

As for more swing names, the only one I can think of is Almost Jemima, but I don't think that's official. In fact, if I'm remembering correctly, abbeycat coined the name. But that's what people around here seem to refer to as. You can find more about her, and other swings, on a thread I started which is now probably a page or two back called something like Those Random Confusing Characters.

[ultra_lilac]

I love the 8. swing costume! The stripes are really striking.

[Belle]

I'm pretty sure that no. 8 is the same basic costume design as Almost-Jemima - I'm so bad at nicknames! I saw a female swing on for Bill Bailey/Carbucketty a couple of times in the last London cast, and I'm pretty sure it was that basic costume but with a bit more black. With the wig, Jemima style makeup, and a dark hatched costume with white spotches (where this one is more white with black...) She looked quite like Jemima.

Does anyone else think no. 3 looks like a male Etcetera?

[abbeycat]

Male Etcetera popped up a few times in London. I remember Ben Garner (circa 96 cast) had a cossie that was exact to etcetera's but with bill baileys wig!

[ultra_lilac]

I love the swing costumes, and yes I can absolutely see a male Etcetera in that one!
Is there a website anywhere with more about the swing costumes? I've never seen one, and google just shows this thread

[Belle]

There will be soon! I'm working on it. It's pretty tricky tho, so I'll be consulting the experts here again!

[Alonza0]

Ultra_lilac, if you're interested in seeing swing costumes, I'd suggest Carbucketty's image galleries at catsmusical.com. If you look at the group pictures in the different London folders you can see a lot of good costumes, though nothing nearly as big or detailed as the photos Belle put up. As of right now, I think that's the best you can do when looking up swings.

[Belle]

It's time for Round 2 of "Name That Cat!"

This is London, June 1988. Somehow I find there's a huge difference between the 1988 costumes and the 1990. The 1990 seem like the forefathers of the archetypal London/Video costume designs, yet just 2 years earlier - these remind me of the Japanese production more than London! And I'm about as good at naming the characters...

So. Full Cast plus swings - let's play "Name That Cat!"

http://www.bellesdomain.co.uk/temp/catsjune1988.jpg

Warning - big pic!

Should you wish to cross-reference, here's the rest of that casts' pics - http://www.bellesdomain.co.uk/cats8806.html If you can put actors' names to the faces, I'll be in awe... but character names are what I'm hoping for!

So...

1- Deutoronomy
2-
3-
4-
5-

6-
7- Tantomile
8- Mungojerrie
9-
10-

11- Cassandra
12- George
13- Victoria
14- Quaxo
15-

16- Electra
17- Munkustrap
18- Rum Tum Tugger
19- Skimbleshanks
20-

21- Coricopat
22- Jennyanydots
23-
24-
25- Chorus Grizabella?

26- Demeter
27-
28-
29-
30- Nameless Brown Queen

[Carbucketty]

[Carbucketty]

Alonzo = Missing
Admetus = Sandy Strallen

1- Deutoronomy (Donald Francke)
2- Jellylorum
3- Jemima
4- Male Kitten (Guess = Carb or BB)
5- Male Kitten (Guess = Carb or BB)

6- Rumple (maybe Etc.)
7- Tantomile
8- Mungojerrie (Scott Sherrin -- on the cover of an ALW biog.)
9- Etcetera (maybe Rumple)
10- Gus

11- Cassandra
12- George (Steve Wayne)
13- Victoria (Cherida Langford)
14- Quaxo (Graham Fletcher)
15- (Guess = Swing)

16- Electra
17- Munkustrap (Gary Martin)
18- Rum Tum Tugger (Richard Lloyd King)
19- Skimbleshanks
20- (Guess = Victor)

21- Coricopat
22- Jennyanydots
23- Walking Cover
24- Bombalurina (Nadia Strahan)
25- Chorus Grizabella?

26- Demeter (Linda Mae Brewer)
27- (Guess = Admetus)
28- Swing
29- Swing
30- Nameless Brown Queen

[Alonza0]

Carbucketty, you're brilliant.

Anywho, I confirm his guesses of Victor and Admetus. 20 has a wig very similar to 90's, and his make-up also resembles 90 Victor's.

27 is a little harder to confirm, but he has Admetus' signature rust wig and coloring. Also, if you compare his make-up to that of 91 (the closest year picture I have), they are nearly identical, except for the fact that 27's cheeks are 'filled in' where as 91 Admetus' are left white.

Oh, and also 15 resembles the swing from 90 that Robert Yeal played, methinks, but they're not an exact match by any means so I could be wrong. Same deal with 28 and Beth Robson circa 90.

Oh, and one more thing: I also agree with Carbucketty that 9 is Etcetera. Take a look at this picture (courtesy Felina's Jellicle World) from 89:

This Etcetera has a black patch on her left shoulder, as does the one in your picture. 6 does not have such a patch.

[gottagodisco]

1.Donald Franke Old Deuteronomy Opening Costume
2 Ann Woodford Jellylorum
3 Ruthie Henshall Jemima
4 Adrian Edmeades Bill Bailey
5 Stephen Mear Admetus Position ( in Swing Costume )
6 Cathy Cordez Rumpleteazer
7 Louisa Macalpine Tantomile
8 Jimmy Johnstone Mungojerrie
9 Marsha Bland Ectcetera
10 Paul Bentley Gus
11 Nadia Strahan Cassandra
12 Steven Wayne George
13 Cherida Langford Victoria
14 Dougie Howes Mistoffolees
15 Geoff Garrett Carbuckety postion ( in Swing Costume )
16 Jackie Crawford Electra
17 Gary Martin Munkustrap
18 Richard Lyold King Tugger
19 Adam Matalon Skimbleshanks
20 Chris Molloy Victor
21 Colin Charles Coricopat
22 Valda Aviks Gumbie / Jennyanydots
23 Michael Sanderson Cover Gus/ Growltiger in Swing Costume
24 Sharon Benson Grizabella Opening Basic Costume
25 Heather Robbins Bombalurina
26 Linda Mae Brewer Demeter
27 Duncan Macvicar Swing Costume
28 Liz Love Swing Costume
29 Kim Winfield Swing Costume
30 Amanda Courtney Davies Swing Costume . Hope This Helps !

[Belle]

[Carbucketty]

[Alonza0]

Wow.

You amaze me.

But just one question - are you sure that 25 is Bombalurina? I mean, she looks very red in this picture: http://www.bellesdomain.co.uk/cats/brochures/l8806_06.jpg
and this picture: http://www.bellesdomain.co.uk/cats/brochures/l8806_07.jpg
but not so much in the group picture that you identified her in.

[Carbucketty]

I pulled the names from the Dec ' 88 programme -- that's why they're off. I forgot to confirm aganst the brochure.

[Belle]

[Spatzthecat]

Hi

Jemima daughter of Job, one of three, nowhere in all the land were found women as beautiful as Job's daughters. Seeing Veerle on stage I have to agree with that.

Electra daughter of Agamemnon, Electra complex named after her-daddy issues? did she help kill her father not sure!

Victoria female form of Victor original latin word for Victory Roman goddess of Victory.

BTW Clytemnestra was wife of Agamemnon, Clytemenstra killed Cassandra!

[Belle]

cool...


but...


Why were these names used for Cats?
I'm thinking Jemima was a suitable young girl's name in Edwardian times, it's the name of the daughter in Mary Poppins which is a similar era?

[Drumdraper]

Maybe they just picked names that they thought suited the characters and had a jellicle taste. Etcetera was named that because she was an extra kitten swing that needed an extra name, so why not etcetera. Better that than miscelleaneous.

[Alonza0]

Well, if you're going that route, Plato was a Greek scholar, Admetus was a minor character in Greek mythology, so on and so forth.

I have no idea why Jemima was used. When I think Jemima I think... pancakes and toot sweets. Perhaps the embodyment of innocence, thus a suitable name for an innocent cat? Or perhaps Eliot or Lloyd Webber or one of the costume designers had a friend or relative named Jemima? I shall try to scour down a relationship eventually.

Cassandra, I'm guessing, was probably used for it's Greek ties, normality and perhaps mystic relations. Perhaps they wanted some female characters with normal names to match with George, Alonzo, Victor, and Bill Bailey from the Naming of Cats. Thus Jemima, Victoria and Cassandra. Cassandra ties in with the Greek theme of Plato, Admetus, Electra and Demeter, and it suits an exotic cat - Cassandra was a mystic, cat Cassandra was high-strung, eerie and maybe mystical.

That's all I can think of at the moment...