Not Dead Yet
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Movie BleedersSomeone on Youtube got into a kindof argument with me... I had said something a few months ago about Depp fangirls and how annoying they're being lately about how they're gonna see it "EVEN THOUGH" it's a musical and how it's insulting to Sondheim fans...
and then she started defending her fangirl-ness (mind you, part of her youtube name has the words DeppObsessed in it...) and it somehow got to me telling her to watch the revival if she wants real appreciation for Sweeney. And then she said "I doubt I would like it more than Burten's brilliant movie. I think Johnny is the official character of Sweeney Todd. Besides, I've never been one for plays..." or something along those lines (I was anal and fixed various errors).
People who are only fans of the movie somehow are now thinking that they can pass judgement on the stage versions as well... even without ever seeing them and actually blatantly refusing to see it. It just makes me sick. This is what I hate about movie musicals... people who see the movie first will always be stuck with that image. I have a friend who saw it on stage after seeing the movie and she thought it was all weird and stuff and it was not what she expected because of the movie. She said it was "okay" but that she "loved" the movie.
Do you think it's possible for movie Bleeders to really break out of their movie mentality and always view Johnny as THE Sweeney even though he isn't?
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ErikProuvaire
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Oh God. Movie bleeders drive me up the wall.
Like my mom, for instance. She swears up and down that she thinks Helena played Mrs. Lovett better than Angela Lansbury. The only person who might even have the potential to be better than Angela (Bernadette Peters) has never played the role.
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Brock07
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Watch the revival? Is there a place to do that online? Or were you saying, go see the tour?
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Kragey
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For the record, I can't stand Angela Lansbury's voice, so I don't think it's the end of the world if somebody doesn't like her. I honestly did prefer HBC to her. But I do think it's bullcrap to pass judgement on casts upon casts if you've only seen one. Mind you, though, that's one of the side effects to a movie adaptation: you get more fans, but some of them are closed-minded.
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ErikProuvaire
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There are bits of the Revival on youtube. About 7 or 8 songs. They may not be there any more, though. A lot of theatre stuff has been deleted since google bought out youtube. 
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DontDoSadnessxx
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there was a whole argument about this on the 'sweeney todd fanart thread"
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Not Dead Yet
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That may be, but it's 8 pages long and arguably off topic since this isn't about fanart. It's probably better that this have its own topic.
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what_the_heck013
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What annoys me most about Depp fangirls?
"Ohhhhhhh myyyyy gawwwwwd!!!!!!!! Johnny Depp was so good in Pirates"
"Did you see him in From Hell?"
"What? No!"
"What about Ed Wood?"
"What are you talking about? He wasn't in those movies?"
The man has been in SO many good movies that nobody has seen. Makes me sad.
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Not Dead Yet
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| what_the_heck013 wrote: |
"Did you see him in From Hell?" |
He was one of the only good things about that movie, imo.
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Kragey
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| Not Dead Yet wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: |
"Did you see him in From Hell?" |
He was one of the only good things about that movie, imo. |
THE only good thing. =P
I just can't believe people didn't know about Johnny Depp before Pirates. He was definitely famous before then, and I know he was considered sexually attractive. I mean, that's why half of my straight girl/gay boy friends flipped shit when they first heard about Pirates.
Although I can't deny it: the eyeliner was hot.
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Mistress
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I was just thinking, about whtehr the "movie bleeders" could get into the show, and I think, if they are open about it, I think it's possible. My cousin was extremely open and we ended up seeing the revival together along with our brothers and my mum. My friend was also open about the show. And I went through the same thing with POTO...saw the movie, loved it, and discovered how much better the show was
However, I am very annoyed by those kidsx who are like "OMIGODJOHNNY'STHEBESTSWEENEY" and they haven't seen anything but the movie. Annnoying as hel. Ugh.
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what_the_heck013
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| Not Dead Yet wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: |
"Did you see him in From Hell?" |
He was one of the only good things about that movie, imo. |
Then replace it with "Benny and Joon", "Don Juan de Marco", "Once Upon a Time in Mexico", "the Libertine"... I could go on and on...
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Vice
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| what_the_heck013 wrote: | | Not Dead Yet wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: |
"Did you see him in From Hell?" |
He was one of the only good things about that movie, imo. |
Then replace it with "Benny and Joon", "Don Juan de Marco", "Once Upon a Time in Mexico", "the Libertine"... I could go on and on... |
Have those fangirls watch the ending of "The Libertine" when his character dies. THEN have them say he's cute.
My favourite movie of his is actually "Secret Window". He's too mild of a Sweeney for me. (He's not menacing enough.)
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Brock07
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Secret Window, you mean?
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Vice
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| Brock07 wrote: | | Secret Window, you mean? |
Oops... *edited*
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Lazarus (Adam G)
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I got in an argument with some of those creeps on Youtube and IMDB (yeah, I'm a loser). I tried telling them that George Hearn could easily kick the shit out of Depp's Sweeney both in the acting and singing departments.
Honestly, I enjoyed Depp, but he was NOT the ultimate Sweeney.
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Not Dead Yet
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| Lazarus (Adam G) wrote: | I got in an argument with some of those creeps on Youtube and IMDB (yeah, I'm a loser). I tried telling them that George Hearn could easily kick the shit out of Depp's Sweeney both in the acting and singing departments.
Honestly, I enjoyed Depp, but he was NOT the ultimate Sweeney. |
Oh, please, most IMDbers are vultures. They will kick your virtual a** if you post something that most of them disagree with. I mean, I loved the movie, but everyone's entitled to their own freaking opinion. IF and only IF they are being ignorant by saying "Oh, it's a musical" or "Oh Johnny rulez, he's the best Sweeney!" without knowing what the hell you're talking about, then your opinion just doesn't count in my mind.
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Kragey
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First I was getting owned for wearing all black, now I'm getting owned for using IMDB. I'm officially a Sweeney outcast!
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Not Dead Yet
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| Kragey wrote: | | First I was getting owned for wearing all black, now I'm getting owned for using IMDB. I'm officially a Sweeney outcast! |
Oh, don't worry, I post there a lot. A lot. Particularly on the Sweeney Board (I was one of the original "Bleeders" on IMDb) But I hate that army of drones who have to attack people for having possibly valid opinions.
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Kragey
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| Not Dead Yet wrote: | | Kragey wrote: | | First I was getting owned for wearing all black, now I'm getting owned for using IMDB. I'm officially a Sweeney outcast! |
Oh, don't worry, I post there a lot. A lot. Particularly on the Sweeney Board (I was one of the original "Bleeders" on IMDb) But I hate that army of drones who have to attack people for having possibly valid opinions. |
I was joking around...but I do appreciate the support. <3
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Don't Tell Mama
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I don't mind people who are just getting interested in Sweeney Todd because of the film. Honestly, I don't. If it helps them to be introduced to Stephen Sondheim, fantastic. Just dandy. However, I don't appreciate the people who suddenly feel as though they know more about Sweeney than I do merely because they've seen the movie. That rips my knitting. By all means, Johnny Depp did perform quite well given the fact he isn't a singer. But that does automatically make him OMGZ BST SWENEY EVR1111CUZHEZHAWTOMGZ!111 ? Of course not. There are better Sweeneys out there (depending on personal preference), but he did a commendable job. When it comes to arguing with people who think OMGZ JOHNYS TEH BST SWENEY EVR111CUZHEZHAWTLOLZ!!1, I have to excuse their ignorance towards the material itself and keep on going.
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Xack
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| Kragey wrote: | | First I was getting owned for wearing all black, now I'm getting owned for using IMDB. I'm officially a Sweeney outcast! |
Who let Kragey back in? 
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Kragey
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| Xack wrote: | | Kragey wrote: | | First I was getting owned for wearing all black, now I'm getting owned for using IMDB. I'm officially a Sweeney outcast! |
Who let Kragey back in? |
QUOTED!
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Not Dead Yet
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| Kragey wrote: | | Xack wrote: | | Kragey wrote: | | First I was getting owned for wearing all black, now I'm getting owned for using IMDB. I'm officially a Sweeney outcast! |
Who let Kragey back in? |
QUOTED! |
Haha!!
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LittleRedLovesTheater
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I like Johnny Depp. I like Tim Burton. I LOVE Helena. but I think the movie was crap compared to the revival with Patti LuPone & Michael Cerveris. They were truly amazing & I think a lot of people went to see Sweeney "just cuz johnny's in it" but thats too bad for them.
& also for the record I hated Angela Lansbury as Mrs.Lovett. it just reminded me of Mrs.Potts killing people or something lol. but, as my signature says, I am a Bleeder. but I will always prefer the musical to the movie. always.
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mastachen
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What the hell is a bleeder?
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Mistress
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^ A Bleeder is a fan of the Burton movie. Usually the Bleeders tend to be Sweeney virgins prior to viewing the film, but not always as is clearly shown by the poster above you.
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Endless_Masquerading
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Ew. That's...ugh. Almost makes one physically sick to come across a "OMG JOHNNY IS GOD IF YOU DISAGREE YOU BELONG IN HELL" type fan. I saw the revival (not on Broadway, I would have shot myself if I had to sit through Cerveris and LuPone....sorry fans of the aforementioned...) so I wasn't a Sweeney virgin when I saw the movie, and I love both for different reasons. Like our dear controversial Johnny said, it's a different animal....They really should be taken as seperate works.
And Helena being better than Angela? Nuuuuu thank you. XD Not...not a snowball's chance in hell. My chorus teacher saw Angela in the original Broadway show (luckkyyyyy) and then saw the movie and our ENTIRE CLASS was devoted on how not to sing like Helena Bonham Carter.
I love Helena, I do, and she did a good enough job, but rawr some of those notes in A Little Priest.....
/rant
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Not Dead Yet
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| Endless_Masquerading wrote: |
I love Helena, I do, and she did a good enough job, but rawr some of those notes in A Little Priest.....
/rant |
That's how I feel; I thought the acting was great, but what were they thinking when they allowed her to sing that way... it was like Burton didn't allow her to show any emotion at all while singing. Or she chose not to.
I honestly don't understand how someone can NOT like Lansbury... maybe they just have a different view of what Mrs. Lovett IS.. because judging by the liberetto, Lansbury is the truest form of Lovett.
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Mistress
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It's funny, I was reading a magazine article about Sweeney Todd in McClean's magazine. It was all about how the movie was meant for people who didn't necessarily like Musicals. Apparently Depp likened his voice to "the mating call of a rutting stag". Another interesting fact, which I am not sure is true, is that apparently Angela Lansbury didn't actually have fiormal vocal training before hitting the Broadway stage back in the sixties, I guess it was. Can anyone verify or dissprove thsi allegation please?
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KevinMHofer
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Not formal training in singing. But definitely voice training.
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Salome
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| Kragey wrote: | | Not Dead Yet wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: |
"Did you see him in From Hell?" |
He was one of the only good things about that movie, imo. |
THE only good thing. =P
. |
Bullshiiiittt!
Sir Ian Holm and Ian Richardson acted circles around Depp in From Hell..come on.
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Salome
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| LittleRedLovesTheater wrote: | I like Johnny Depp. I like Tim Burton. I LOVE Helena. but I think the movie was crap compared to the revival with Patti LuPone & Michael Cerveris. They were truly amazing & I think a lot of people went to see Sweeney "just cuz johnny's in it" but thats too bad for them.
& also for the record I hated Angela Lansbury as Mrs.Lovett. it just reminded me of Mrs.Potts killing people or something lol. but, as my signature says, I am a Bleeder. but I will always prefer the musical to the movie. always. |
Uhm you realize that not only did Lansbury do Sweeney BEFORE Beauty and The Beast. but she is an amzing actress of infinite range.
Helena is wonderful but no one can beat Lansbury in the role. jsut as Hearn and Cariou are far better than Depp even though Depp did a credible job.
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Dvarg
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| Kragey wrote: | | Not Dead Yet wrote: | | what_the_heck013 wrote: |
"Did you see him in From Hell?" |
He was one of the only good things about that movie, imo. |
THE only good thing. =P |
Except Heather Graham and her wonderful red hair. I don't care how good/bad she is at acting, I wouldn't notice anyway, since I'd be caught up in her looks. Drool.
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Kragey
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| Salome wrote: |
Sir Ian Holm and Ian Richardson acted circles around Depp in From Hell..come on. |
I didn't feel the need to state those two. They're givens.
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Mistress
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| KevinMHofer wrote: | | Not formal training in singing. But definitely voice training. |
I just find utterly fascinating that Angela Lansbury actually made a musical career mostly off of pure talent. What a wonder that woman is! One of my favourite stories about her is how she got the lead role in the original production of Mame, I think it was. Apparently when she came for an audition the director or whoever was overseeing the casting was a tad reluctant, commenting that Lansbury's career thus far was made up of mostly bitch-on-wheels roles or parts playing people's mothers. Anyway, Lansbury went up for her auditon on the stage, the piano started up, and she started singing "Light the candle..." and EVERYONE was blown away by it.
Another marvel about her I have is something that took place when she was performing "Littlle Priest" for Sondheim's B-day concert with Len Cariou (this is a Youtube vid btw) . For one thing, she actually put her hair into to little buds and died them red in an effort to copy the original hair design. It looked so adorable! But the best thing was how, with only a slight change in posture and facial expression, she became Lovett, 100% Lovett. I really admire that woman (You can tell by the length of my rant about her  )
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Salome
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also Lansbury won OScar nominationd for her first 2 rolesd in hollywood. Picture of Dorian Gray and Gaslight. before she was 20 years old!!!
anbd her 3rd noimination for Manchurian Candidate for her first villian role.
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Mistress
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That is rather incredible, isn't it?
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Kragey
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| Mistress wrote: | | I really admire that woman |
Never would've guessed. ^_~
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Orestes Fasting
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| Salome wrote: | | Uhm you realize that not only did Lansbury do Sweeney BEFORE Beauty and The Beast. but she is an amzing actress of infinite range. |
Salome honey, everyone born from the mid-80s onward probably saw Beauty and the Beast as kids, way before they'd even heard of Sweeney Todd (which isn't exactly suitable for little kids). Mrs. Potts was an entire generation's first exposure to Angela Lansbury.
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Salome
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i'd think most would know her more from Murder She Wrote.
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Kragey
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| Salome wrote: | | i'd think most would know her more from Murder She Wrote. |
I didn't even know she was in that until about a year or two ago. Never watched it. Honestly, I first saw her in the The Picture Of Dorian Grey from the 40s, and that's only because I love old movies.
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Orestes Fasting
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| Salome wrote: | | i'd think most would know her more from Murder She Wrote. |
I'm not talking about what she's best-known for, I'm talking about the first exposure people had to her. All the kids who were six years old when BatB came out wouldn't have been watching Murder She Wrote before they saw it.
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LittleRedLovesTheater
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Uhm you realize that not only did Lansbury do Sweeney BEFORE Beauty and The Beast. but she is an amzing actress of infinite range.
Helena is wonderful but no one can beat Lansbury in the role. jsut as Hearn and Cariou are far better than Depp even though Depp did a credible job.[/quote]
well, I didnt know her as Mrs.Lovett before I knew Beauty & the Beast. & after that it just was weird to me...& I'm not saying she's bad...she just wasn't my favorite Mrs.Lovett.[/quote]
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theonetowatch
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So I was sitting in the middle school art room after school the other day after school (I'm in high school but friends with the teacher)
Gahh these two eighth graders.
8#1: eeeee we're going to go see Sweeney Todd!!
Me: oh, I didn't think it was that good.
8#1: we've already seen it. omg you didn't like it!?
Me: okay...I just thought it wasn't such a great adaptation.
8#1: I don't know what that means.
Me: of the...stage show....?
8#2: oh that. yeah I'm going to go see it in a few weeks. is it any good?
Me: er well I'd say it's a good bit better than the movie...
8#1: I don't know. I don't think it would have been very good without Johnny.
Me: okay.
8#1: wait...so what's an adaptation?
Then later they were going on about how Johnny is their new best friend..."omg what I thought I was your best friend"...
Well, at least I tried. It's not that there is any real harm in their inane conversation and opinions, but it was pretty annoying. And funny, actually.
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Lazarus (Adam G)
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| Salome wrote: | | i'd think most would know her more from Murder She Wrote. |
Which is sad, because that show is awful.
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Brother Marvin Hinten, S.
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In whose opinion? I think the show was bloody marvelous. But then I've always been a mystery fan myself.
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fjays
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well excuse me for sounding like a fangirl (though im not!)
but i have only seen the movie, which i adored,
but the thing is, i know that the stage show would of been brilliant!
im sure it would of been better than the movie and so on...
but that doesnt mean the movie wasnt splendid ey.
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SunriseSunset
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I was a Sweeney virgin before I saw the movie, but I'd seen a production of Into the Woods and about fifty productions of West Side Story, so I'd heard Sondheim before. So after I saw the movie I fell in love with it and the score and bought both recordings (the original Broadway one and the movie soundtrack) and then watched the DVD with Lansbury and Hern. And as much as I thought I wouldn't like Sweeney Todd without Johnny Depp (I'm a fangirl, I admit it.) I LOVED the stage version even more than the movie, mostly because of Angela. She is definetly the best Mrs. Lovett, singing and acting wise. Helena's acting was good for the movie I thought, but her singing was weak. A little more emotion from her in the songs would have been nice.
So, to answer the original question of whether or not it's possible for a bleeder to break out of the movie mentality - totally. I now love the stage version just as much as the movie and know that there are other actors that have played Sweeney just as good (and some better) than Johnny. So there. 
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