Andrew
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LuPoneAnother reason you might not like LuPone's By the Sea is because you aren't seeing the whole picture- if you can't see the show or haven't yet, go to the show's website, where you can find a picture of four- LuPone in the casket polishing a torture device, Cerveris to the left after a hard day's work, Toby below in the "pie shop" playing clarinet, i believe, and DLC to the right playing the flute, which I saw as being both 'Johanna's' Green finch outside and her rememberance of the sea as a child. All this is going on at the same time, and it's truly lovely seeing it performed live. The recording captures it quite well, and allows you to remember the scene as you saw it. For those who haven't seen it though, I can totally see your point.
LuPone, as a patient at the asylum, is a very depressed and quiet loner who sits in the corner (you can see this in the opening number and in the way she portrays her character through many beginning songs- how she cowers in the corner playing the bells, giving scared glances to the other patients as they walk by. When she puts on her character though for the story portrayed in the asylum, it's still very held back and lonesome- a slightly more depressed Mrs. Lovett, with a deep love for Mr. Barker. One of the most powerful moments in the revival happened only one night that I've seen it- Patti got done with her last song- "I'd make twice the wife she would I love you-----" and was just bawling. She was totally into it- then he started dancing with her and sitting her down in the chair and she was still physically hurting from the torment but hoping he was forgiving her- and after he slit her throat and they were putting on her coat, as she was walking back to her seat, her tears were still coming down. Throughout the entire end of the show- all the way through until curtain call, she was wiping tears. It was the most amazing dedication to a part I'd seen, and I could tell she actually felt it. I've only had that happen to me, truly deeply, for two or three shows, and the feeling is amazing, but to see it on Broadway is a rarity.
And if you still aren't convinced by her portrayal of the character in the revival, in her being worthy to tackle the role Angela once performed (also flawlessly), then check out the concert version. It's the polar opposite, but still perfect. She's one up on Lansbury, in my book. I don't believe Angela could do what LuPone's doing on Broadway now convincingly. But hey- I'd love to see her try it out.
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theatre4life
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Personally, i've never been able to stand her as Lovett at all.
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Cody
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I love LuPone as Lovett. She is my favorite character in the play. And I love her voice! It is perfect! She has done an amazing job.
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Salome
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Lansbury could havep layed any version of Lovett she was told to play. the woman has enormous range. LOok at Manchurian Candidate and compare it to say... Gaslight...or Suddenly Last Summer.
Lansbury's depth as an actress is far greater than LuPones.
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darckon13
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Personally I enjoy Patti LuPone playing Mrs. Lovett. Compared to Angela Lansbury, LuPone plays this character better and makes her look like the manipulant she is. Lansbury is a lot more fun to watch and hear, but doesn't convince me that she can convince someone with a brain washing device.
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matonad44
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| Salome wrote: |
Lansbury's depth as an actress is far greater than LuPones. |
I always saw Lansbury's Lovett as two dimensional. I really love Angela though, I just don't agree with her take on the character.
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Natalie
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I think that Angela Lansbury is delightfully funny, but her Mrs. Lovett is not as cohesive as Patti's interpretation. Angela is zany, good-natured, very maternal with Toby, and her sexual passion for Sweeney is not all that evident. She does not give us the motivation for somebody to commit to cannibalism.
Patti, on the other hand, plays an evil lubricious louche Mrs. Lovett. She looks bored and distracted when she is with Toby. It is clear that she is driven by a dark obsession with Sweeney, and intense sexual desire. She will do anything to get him.
But I am also a long-term fan of Angela Lansbury--I'm not meaning to critique her but rather to mention that I think there are holes in her interpretation of the character.
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matonad44
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Patti has said that she had to revise her Mrs. Lovett from what she did in the concert version.
Patti's take on the role is absolutely perfect for the production. Take it from someone who has seen the revival.
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ICEcreamAssassin78
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patti lupone is one of the most pompous musical actress' in history.. rent the docu Broadway the Golden Age.. she's such an a-hole.. discrediting modern theater and musical actors as "no-talents"...
so disgusting.. to think how much I used to love her... oh well!
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EsmeraldaDaae
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Knock it off,people!
I just don't understand why people have to shout out how bad somebody is!
I like Patti as Mrs.Lovett...it's said that she brings a more sinnister edge to the role...
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what_the_heck013
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| ICEcreamAssassin78 wrote: | | patti lupone is one of the most pompous musical actress' in history.. rent the docu Broadway the Golden Age.. she's such an a-hole.. discrediting modern theater and musical actors as "no-talents"... |
I think she is a diva in some aspects (she has never seen the Evita film). Yet I agree with her on some of the things she says (i.e. that people who go to the theatre should not eat or sleep during a show). I don't see her as so much of a diva as she appeared on a video clip for Broadway.com getting her makeup put on... and she did not look so glamorous. A diva would make sure she had makeup on. I also heard that she's rather nice in person. Granted, I've never met her... so I honestly can not judge her personality.
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mozurkz
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| ICEcreamAssassin78 wrote: | patti lupone is one of the most pompous musical actress' in history.. rent the docu Broadway the Golden Age.. she's such an a-hole.. discrediting modern theater and musical actors as "no-talents"...
so disgusting.. to think how much I used to love her... oh well! |
I agree with you.... to an extent. I think she is Diva-is and pompous, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy her work. She is my favorite Lovett by far.
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Natalie wrote: | | I think that Angela Lansbury is delightfully funny, but her Mrs. Lovett is not as cohesive as Patti's interpretation. Angela is zany, good-natured, very maternal with Toby, and her sexual passion for Sweeney is not all that evident. |
Angela knows the character. She is playing a women in the early 1800's. She would have used charm to seduce sweeney instead of blatent sexuality, which would have been very frowned upon in Victorian England.
I saw Lupones Lovett 3 times and she got worse each time. This is a woman who calls herself an "actress" yet can't even hold an english accent for two and a half hours.
Lupone always plays Lupone. She is unable to play anything but that. She needs to stay far away from Sondheim. Her Desiree from Ravinia was so painful and a total disgrace to one of the most beautiful roles in musical theater.
Most of you don't even know the character of Lovett at all. You keep writing about her obsession with her yet you dont discuss what drives that obsession. It certainly isn't sex. Lansbury knew what it was. Fowler got it. So did Baranski. Lupone was horrible. Hell she lost the Tony to LaChanze.
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mozurkz
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I don't care about the 'sexual' aspect of Lupone, hell, she's in her 50's i think. I think she sings much better, and i couldn't care less about the accent. I admit she was horrid in the concert, but in the revival there was something more dark, and menacing. And the revivals setting isn't in the 1800's. Plus, Anglea just sounds like she's screeching the songs, it doesn't sound bad, but it doesn't sound good either. Yes she has charm and humor, but she misses the Lovett that would put human beings into pies for her own gain.
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Ulla Dance Again!
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Unfortunately all they had was the recording with LuPone when I went to the music store.. so that's what I got. She has a nice singing voice, though... though the English accent wobbles here and there.
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Salome
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Lansbury is 5 timest he singer LuPone is. Lupone doesnt know how to use her voice as Lovett.
you have to be seriously insane or well sedated to prefer LuPone's Lovett to the great Angela Lansbury's.
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matonad44
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| The REAL Ciaron wrote: |
I saw Lupones Lovett 3 times and she got worse each time. This is a woman who calls herself an "actress" yet can't even hold an english accent for two and a half hours.
Lupone always plays Lupone. She is unable to play anything but that. She needs to stay far away from Sondheim. Her Desiree from Ravinia was so painful and a total disgrace to one of the most beautiful roles in musical theater.
Most of you don't even know the character of Lovett at all. You keep writing about her obsession with her yet you dont discuss what drives that obsession. It certainly isn't sex. Lansbury knew what it was. Fowler got it. So did Baranski. Lupone was horrible. Hell she lost the Tony to LaChanze. |
The people who bash LuPone's Lovett (and I say bash, because critisim is mature) do not understand that if you do not like her Lovett you should bash John Doyle (who is an excellent director). Patti's Lovett in concert was nothing like her performance in the revival and yes she held an accent throughout the whole show.
Patti LuPone's Mrs. Lovett is spot on with the production. The theme of the revival was stripped down with minimal set design, costume design, and aspects of musicals that keep us from the story (this includes minimal accents, that's why Tobias did not have one, but the reason Pirelli had one, because it's a part of the character's humor).
Angela Landsbury's Mrs. Lovett is spot on with her production. I have never seen her in the role, however I have the Cast Recording and the DVD, and I can judge to extent with that material. It is impossible to compare LuPone and Landsbury, because they are so very different, and yes, perfect for their individual productions. You may have differing opinions on LuPone and the revival, but don't bash someone as an actress, because their production does not require an accent.
The bottom line is that revivals exist, because a director has something fresh to bring to it, and every part of this production is innovative.
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The REAL Ciaron
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| matonad44 wrote: | | The REAL Ciaron wrote: |
I saw Lupones Lovett 3 times and she got worse each time. This is a woman who calls herself an "actress" yet can't even hold an english accent for two and a half hours.
Lupone always plays Lupone. She is unable to play anything but that. She needs to stay far away from Sondheim. Her Desiree from Ravinia was so painful and a total disgrace to one of the most beautiful roles in musical theater.
Most of you don't even know the character of Lovett at all. You keep writing about her obsession with her yet you dont discuss what drives that obsession. It certainly isn't sex. Lansbury knew what it was. Fowler got it. So did Baranski. Lupone was horrible. Hell she lost the Tony to LaChanze. |
The people who bash LuPone's Lovett (and I say bash, because critisim is mature) do not understand that if you do not like her Lovett you should bash John Doyle (who is an excellent director). Patti's Lovett in concert was nothing like her performance in the revival and yes she held an accent throughout the whole show.
Patti LuPone's Mrs. Lovett is spot on with the production. The theme of the revival was stripped down with minimal set design, costume design, and aspects of musicals that keep us from the story (this includes minimal accents, that's why Tobias did not have one, but the reason Pirelli had one, because it's a part of the character's humor).
Angela Landsbury's Mrs. Lovett is spot on with her production. I have never seen her in the role, however I have the Cast Recording and the DVD, and I can judge to extent with that material. It is impossible to compare LuPone and Landsbury, because they are so very different, and yes, perfect for their individual productions. You may have differing opinions on LuPone and the revival, but don't bash someone as an actress, because their production does not require an accent.
The bottom line is that revivals exist, because a director has something fresh to bring to it, and every part of this production is innovative. |
Lupones performance has nothing to do with Doyle. It has everythng to do with her not knowing how to hold a British accent and mumbling through some of the finest lyrics ever written. The only way Doyle is responsible is that he did not fire her when he had the chance.
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mozurkz
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A british accent has nothing to do with the character or THIS production. And i could understand every word she said.
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matonad44
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Watch Sweeney Todd in Concert. Both of her Mrs. Lovetts are so different. She has said that she had to drop everything she had know from her Lovett in concert for the revival . Her different interpretations has everything to do with the type of the production and the director.
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Salome
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Ciaron is correct..she should have been fired..along with cerveris. the production is strong the leads were weak
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Hans
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| mozurkz wrote: | | And the revivals setting isn't in the 1800's. |
I didn't know that. When is it set?
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bwayluvor31
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| Salome wrote: | | Ciaron is correct..she should have been fired..along with cerveris. the production is strong the leads were weak |
I disagree entirely. I saw the revival, and yes, while LuPone's voice has sounded better, she played the part completely in accordance with the show. She's perfectly capable of playing the flashy, belting Mrs. Lovett, but it would have looked horrible in the revival.
As for Ceveris, I loved his interpretation of Sweeney. It was refreshing and engaging to see him break away from the Len Cariou and George Hearn character, and explore the pain and frustration of Sweeney in a way that says, "I'm not going crazy, I just don't know how to handle my life." Listen to his Epiphany, it's heart breaking.
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Salome
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his epiphany isnt heart beaking..it was rather annoying actually. I hate his false facial expressions and his lack of emotion int h role. and his lack of diction.
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bwayluvor31
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Believe what you will, it felt very powerful to me when I saw it (and I've seen several Sweeneys). As for diction, ask the people in the front row how many times they were spit on from his enunciations.
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ahmelie
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I saw the Sweeney Revival and it was in the top 3 greatest shows I've ever seen.
I idolize Patti LuPone, she is my hero. I am also a big fan of Angela Lansbury. They are my two favorite Mama Roses and they tie at the top for that, but I like Patti's Mrs. Lovett more.
I also love Hal Prince, but his staging of Sweeney had a lot of problems, for example Johanna. Having Sweeney humourously cutting throats took away from the heartbreak of the song so much. That being said, Lansbury's Lovett fit in that production, Patti's in this. If you have a problem with how she portrayed the character, you probably have a problem with Doyle's directing more so than Patti's acting.
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MeredtihParker
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AMEN! She is my favorite actress and BY FAR my favorite Mrs. Lovett!
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rytoast25
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lupone all the way 
i think that lanbury was a good actress but when she sings its so screechy and i cant understand her
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The REAL Ciaron
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OK I re read this thread today and it still pisses me off. I don't understand how people who claim to love musical theater can praise Lupone over Lansbury. This goes for Ben Brantley as well (even though he never said Lupone was better).
Lansbury is an actress. The best part of her Lovett and the reason she won her 4th Tony for the role is that she understood that Lovett needed to be sweet and kooky on the outside in order to fool the audience and Todd into thinking she had no secret ambitions.
Lupone played the character from the inside out which is a HUGE mistake. If we were left with only Patti's interpretation of the role than Dvarg and I would not be having the convo about the character that we have been having in the "truly evil" thread. Lupone leaves nothing to the imagination. NOTHING!! "By the Sea" is the WORST example!!!!! That, however, was Doyles fault. What a horrible thing to do to the show (even though I did laugh haha).
Lansbury left you wondering. Was she the villian of the piece? This is an argument that has been going on about the show since Angie and Len first took the stage at the Uris. The fact that she was so unassuming made her so creepy!
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Salome
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The End.
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Mistress
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Dear Lord People! CALM DOWN!!!! It's just a freakin' show.
I've only seen the Lansbury/Hearn movie and cips from the revival. That being said, Lansbury was lovely as Lovett, but I seriously doubt that her interpretation would have worked in the revival. Lupone's Lovett seems perfectly suited to her production, and from what I've her of her "Worst Pies in Lodon" she can sing the part just fine. This is pretty much what everyone is saying. No one is saying Lansbury sucks, althougyh it seems that everyone is saying Lupone sucks. They are simply saying that their interpretations work best for the productions they were in. Personally, I lovre Lansbury. She outsone Meryl sStreep in The Manchurian Candidate and i absolutley love murder She Wrote. From what I've seen of Lupone, she also has great talent. So I'm not biased when I write this.
Other than that, let's just agree to disagree, shall we?
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Mistress wrote: | Dear Lord People! CALM DOWN!!!! It's just a freakin' show.
I've only seen the Lansbury/Hearn movie and cips from the revival. That being said, Lansbury was lovely as Lovett, but I seriously doubt that her interpretation would have worked in the revival. Lupone's Lovett seems perfectly suited to her production, and from what I've her of her "Worst Pies in Lodon" she can sing the part just fine. This is pretty much what everyone is saying. No one is saying Lansbury sucks, althougyh it seems that everyone is saying Lupone sucks. They are simply saying that their interpretations work best for the productions they were in. Personally, I lovre Lansbury. She outsone Meryl sStreep in The Manchurian Candidate and i absolutley love murder She Wrote. From what I've seen of Lupone, she also has great talent. So I'm not biased when I write this.
Other than that, let's just agree to disagree, shall we? |
We could agree to disagree if you had any idea what you were talking about. You have not even seen Patti in the show? HAHA. Please come back when you are more exposed to the material and to Lupones work. Those of us who have seen her countless times can certainly vouche for her lack in acting ability.
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Mistress
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| The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Mistress wrote: | Dear Lord People! CALM DOWN!!!! It's just a freakin' show.
I've only seen the Lansbury/Hearn movie and cips from the revival. That being said, Lansbury was lovely as Lovett, but I seriously doubt that her interpretation would have worked in the revival. Lupone's Lovett seems perfectly suited to her production, and from what I've her of her "Worst Pies in Lodon" she can sing the part just fine. This is pretty much what everyone is saying. No one is saying Lansbury sucks, althougyh it seems that everyone is saying Lupone sucks. They are simply saying that their interpretations work best for the productions they were in. Personally, I lovre Lansbury. She outsone Meryl sStreep in The Manchurian Candidate and i absolutley love murder She Wrote. From what I've seen of Lupone, she also has great talent. So I'm not biased when I write this.
Other than that, let's just agree to disagree, shall we? |
We could agree to disagree if you had any idea what you were talking about. You have not even seen Patti in the show? HAHA. Please come back when you are more exposed to the material and to Lupones work. Those of us who have seen her countless times can certainly vouche for her lack in acting ability. |
Others who have seen her countless times can vouch for her talent.
It doesn't matter how many times you've seen an actress perform, there's always going to be someone else whose seen it just as many times as you and has a completely different opinion of that actress.
on another note, I'm sorry. You're right, I haven't seen enough of Lupone to judge fairly. I just get really annoyed that people people can bicker so much over one actress (or two in this case). *sigh* I guess I'll just leave the coversation, seeing as I didn't really do much but make it worse. 
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Salome
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LuPone isnt va bad actress just a limited one. and she limits herself even more by constantly playing herself.
Her best role was Reno in Anything Goes. her worst...Norma in Sunset ZBlvd.
she doesnt have enough range to be a great actress.
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Salome wrote: | LuPone isnt va bad actress just a limited one. and she limits herself even more by constantly playing herself.
Her best role was Reno in Anything Goes. her worst...Norma in Sunset ZBlvd.
she doesnt have enough range to be a great actress. |
I disagree Salome. She was TERRIBLE in Anything Goes. Mumbling through some of the finest lyrics ever written. Saw her in Sunset too. God that was aweful!!
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Salome
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I saw her in Anything Goes too. I found her usual lack of diction present but...I also thought she nailed the role.
Didnt see her as Eva..I was 4..but i suppose she was better before she fell back on Patti-isms.. lol
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Jud
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The joy of Patti Lupone in Sweeney Todd was watching her enjoy herself. While we would rather not admit it, we like a diva. Everyone was on the edge of their seat waiting to hear the way she styled every oncoming note. Her character was mostly about Patti Lupone, unfortunately, but had she played it like a great actress, her personal charm would have been diminished - and she would be less of an it-girl. Angela Lansbury's name will shine long after Patti Lupone's.
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Jud wrote: | | The joy of Patti Lupone in Sweeney Todd was watching her enjoy herself. While we would rather not admit it, we like a diva. Everyone was on the edge of their seat waiting to hear the way she styled every oncoming note. Her character was mostly about Patti Lupone, unfortunately, but had she played it like a great actress, her personal charm would have been diminished - and she would be less of an it-girl. Angela Lansbury's name will shine long after Patti Lupone's. |
I don't go to a Sondheim show to see a diva. I go to see an actress.
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Jud
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We're not talking about Sondheims shows here, we're talking about Patti Lupone as she appeared in Sweeney Todd.
I went to see the revival to see a diva and to see a Sondheim Show.
How about you?
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Jud wrote: | We're not talking about Sondheims shows here, we're talking about Patti Lupone as she appeared in Sweeney Todd.
I went to see the revival to see a diva and to see a Sondheim Show.
How about you? |
Actually we ARE talking about a Sondheim show and a very good one at that. I am not a diva chaser. That's cheezy. I went to the revival to see one of musical theaters greatest works. NOT to see some woman mumble through incredible lyrics while going in and out of an English accent. I have seen this show many times with some of the greatest Lovetts. Lupone, as usual, was a joke. I have seen her in almost everything she has done and she always plays the same woman.....PATTI LUPONE!! This woman cannot compare to Lansbury or Fowler or Baranski or Loudon or McKenzie. She is simply outclassed by all of them.
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Jud
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Yeah. I went to see Patti Lupone in Sweeney Todd. It was great.
Nobody's perfect.
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Jud wrote: |
Nobody's perfect. |
Did you see Joanna Gleason in Into the Woods?
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Jud
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Never mind. 
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actionjaxson91
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omg | theatre4life wrote: | | Personally, i've never been able to stand her as Lovett at all. |
how can you say that? Patti LuPone is the best Mrs. Lovett the world has ever seen!! Angela was good but come on....Patti's slut-like filth add a certain humor to the show!!!
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Radames's_Angel
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I haven't seen it with Lansbury but Lupone did awesome (6 more days 'til I see her live ^_^)
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Salome
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oh please..Lansbury ist he greatest actress in musical thetare..not even baranski or fowler came close to her Lovett..let alone LuPone.
LuPone was a joke.
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Salome
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oh please..Lansbury ist he greatest actress in musical thetare..not even baranski or fowler came close to her Lovett..let alone LuPone.
LuPone was a joke.
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javertim
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The reason I prefer Lansbury is because her Mrs. Lovett is much more oblivious to the evil she emits. She lacks morals and ethics and just does what she thinks is logical and appropriate -- a complete sociopath. There is just something so terrible in the fact that, in a sense, she knows not what she does. She doesn't have a system set up where she weighs what is morally right and what is wrong. There would be no reasoning or persuading her.
On the other hand, I believe LuPone's Lovett definitely knows that what she is doing is wrong and therefore does have a sense of ethics and morals -- she just acts against them. The fact that she comes across as more "together" and "understanding" makes less of an impact to me. Moreover, her interpretation doesn't make me feel anything for the character. I never sympathize for her because she is capable of making her own decisions and simply makes malevolent ones.
Lansbury emphasizes the dehumanization of the people of London at this time, which is obviously one of the key themes of the story. Her character is perverted well beyond that of LuPone's. In this sense, not only does the audience sympathize more with the character, but they also are given a constant and incredibly strong dose of what a good portion of the London lower-class is like (at least in Sondheim's musical). Without this, the show doesn't hold up nearly as well for me.
Also, I cannot describe my heartbreak (every single time) at Lansbury's revelation at the end of the show knowing that it was not so much a conscious decision to hide the fact as it was a simple survival instinct concocted by her warped mind.
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Hans
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| javertim wrote: | | The reason I prefer Lansbury is because her Mrs. Lovett is much more oblivious to the evil she emits. She lacks morals and ethics and just does what she thinks is logical and appropriate -- a complete sociopath. There is just something so terrible in the fact that, in a sense, she knows not what she does. She doesn't have a system set up where she weighs what is morally right and what is wrong. There would be no reasoning or persuading her. |
Very good points!
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LesMisForever
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| javertim wrote: | The reason I prefer Lansbury is because her Mrs. Lovett is much more oblivious to the evil she emits. She lacks morals and ethics and just does what she thinks is logical and appropriate -- a complete sociopath. There is just something so terrible in the fact that, in a sense, she knows not what she does. She doesn't have a system set up where she weighs what is morally right and what is wrong. There would be no reasoning or persuading her.
On the other hand, I believe LuPone's Lovett definitely knows that what she is doing is wrong and therefore does have a sense of ethics and morals -- she just acts against them. The fact that she comes across as more "together" and "understanding" makes less of an impact to me. Moreover, her interpretation doesn't make me feel anything for the character. I never sympathize for her because she is capable of making her own decisions and simply makes malevolent ones.
Lansbury emphasizes the dehumanization of the people of London at this time, which is obviously one of the key themes of the story. Her character is perverted well beyond that of LuPone's. In this sense, not only does the audience sympathize more with the character, but they also are given a constant and incredibly strong dose of what a good portion of the London lower-class is like (at least in Sondheim's musical). Without this, the show doesn't hold up nearly as well for me.
Also, I cannot describe my heartbreak (every single time) at Lansbury's revelation at the end of the show knowing that it was not so much a conscious decision to hide the fact as it was a simple survival instinct concocted by her warped mind. |
Very well said.
I am not an expert in Sondheim, Lansbury, or LuPone. Lansbury is indeed far more engaging than LuPone, and as said above you actually sympathise with her, because she is actually doing this only to get the business going.
LuPone comes across, to me at least, as cold and calculating.
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