John to Judas?

Alabesque · John to Judas?

I know this is a fairly common question, but when exactly does John the Baptist change into Judas? Someone told me once that it's when he starts distancing himself from the rest of the group, but in my opinion he's that way throughout the whole show.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Tom

I believe he becomes Judas as soon as Save the People is over. If you go by the Gospel accounts, Jesus and John were only together at the baptism. Even though they were cousins, they did not have an ongoing relationship.

Vichysois

This is one of the areas where correlating Godspell to the Christian Bible proves problematic. Also, the current script revision clouds the issue, as this character was just "David" (Haskell) in the original. The actor, to whom the current script refers as John the Baptist and Judas, is meant to represent a fictional persona of Jesus' right hand man and ultimate betrayer.

Now, in the Bible, Jesus didn't really have a single "right hand man." Tom noted that JtB and Jesus didn't have dealings beyond the Baptism. Simon Peter, though arguably chosen by Christ to be the first pope, was never delegated specific responsibilities as chieftain or steward while Jesus was alive. Nor was Judas any kind of right-hand man as JCS depicts.

Long story short, I find it detrimental to consider John the Baptist and Judas two distinct characters. That supposition makes the whole actor change bit seem a bit random to me. Instead, I see the character, as I believe Schwartz and Tebelak did, as a composite character - that of a man who "prepares the way" for Jesus but ultimately betrays him. (The motivation behind the betrayal and all can be up to the individual actor and production.)

This is where the clowning conceit of the original production comes in...each actor is called upon to represent a particular persona: The lead actor as Jesus Christ, another actor as both John the Baptist and Judas, and the other performers as both philosophers and ordinary personality varieties. See the FAQ of this forum for an elucidation of that.

So there really isn't any distinct individual point at which John the Baptist "changes" into Judas...it's more of an idea established over the very loose, arguably nonexistent, narrative of Godspell. The most obvious signifiers of the change, however, are the character's intrusion into the Beatitudes and his lines in "By my Side."

MunkustrapQC

I saw a professional production in San Diego by the Lamb's Players Theatre Company and John & Judas were two different character played by two different actor.

Alabesque	John to Judas? I know this is a fairly common question, but when exactly does John the Baptist change into Judas? Someone told me once that it's when he starts distancing himself from the rest of the group, but in my opinion he's that way throughout the whole show. Does anyone have any ideas?
Tom	I believe he becomes Judas as soon as Save the People is over. If you go by the Gospel accounts, Jesus and John were only together at the baptism. Even though they were cousins, they did not have an ongoing relationship.
Vichysois	This is one of the areas where correlating Godspell to the Christian Bible proves problematic. Also, the current script revision clouds the issue, as this character was just "David" (Haskell) in the original. The actor, to whom the current script refers as John the Baptist and Judas, is meant to represent a fictional persona of Jesus' right hand man and ultimate betrayer. Now, in the Bible, Jesus didn't really have a single "right hand man." Tom noted that JtB and Jesus didn't have dealings beyond the Baptism. Simon Peter, though arguably chosen by Christ to be the first pope, was never delegated specific responsibilities as chieftain or steward while Jesus was alive. Nor was Judas any kind of right-hand man as JCS depicts. Long story short, I find it detrimental to consider John the Baptist and Judas two distinct characters. That supposition makes the whole actor change bit seem a bit random to me. Instead, I see the character, as I believe Schwartz and Tebelak did, as a composite character - that of a man who "prepares the way" for Jesus but ultimately betrays him. (The motivation behind the betrayal and all can be up to the individual actor and production.) This is where the clowning conceit of the original production comes in...each actor is called upon to represent a particular persona: The lead actor as Jesus Christ, another actor as both John the Baptist and Judas, and the other performers as both philosophers and ordinary personality varieties. See the FAQ of this forum for an elucidation of that. So there really isn't any distinct individual point at which John the Baptist "changes" into Judas...it's more of an idea established over the very loose, arguably nonexistent, narrative of Godspell. The most obvious signifiers of the change, however, are the character's intrusion into the Beatitudes and his lines in "By my Side."
MunkustrapQC	I saw a professional production in San Diego by the Lamb's Players Theatre Company and John & Judas were two different character played by two different actor.

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John to Judas?