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| Dax |
Internet NeutralityWell, what's good for the Miscellaneous forum can be good for here...Save the internet Congress is pushing a law that would abandon the Internet's First Amendment -- a principle called Network Neutrality that prevents companies like AT&T, Verizon and Comcast from deciding which Web sites work best for you -- based on what site pays them the most. If the public doesn't speak up now, our elected officials will cave to a multi-million dollar lobbying campaign. How does this threat to Internet freedom affect you?
Innovators with the "next big idea"—Startups and entrepreneurs will be muscled out of the marketplace by big corporations that pay Internet providers for dominant placing on the Web. The little guy will be left in the "slow lane" with inferior Internet service, unable to compete. Ipod listeners—A company like Comcast could slow access to iTunes, steering you to a higher-priced music service that it owned. Political groups—Political organizing could be slowed by a handful of dominant Internet providers who ask advocacy groups to pay "protection money" for their websites and online features to work correctly. Nonprofits—A charity's website could open at snail-speed, and online contributions could grind to a halt, if nonprofits can't pay dominant Internet providers for access to "the fast lane" of Internet service. Online purchasers—Companies could pay Internet providers to guarantee their online sales process faster than competitors with lower prices—distorting your choice as a consumer. Small businesses and tele-commuters—When Internet companies like AT&T favor their own services, you won't be able to choose more affordable providers for online video, teleconferencing, Internet phone calls, and software that connects your home computer to your office. Parents and retirees—Your choices as a consumer could be controlled by your Internet provider, steering you to their preferred services for online banking, health care information, sending photos, planning vacations, etc. Bloggers—Costs will skyrocket to post and share video and audio clips—silencing citizen journalists and putting more power in the hands of a few corporate-owned media outlets. Blocking Innovation The threat to an open internet isn't just speculation -- we've seen what happens when the Internet's gatekeepers get too much control. Corporate control of the Web would reduce your choices and stifle the spread of innovative and independent ideas that we've come to expect online. It would throw the digital revolution into reverse. Internet gatekeepers are already discriminating against Web sites and services they don't like: In 2004, North Carolina ISP Madison River blocked their DSL customers from using any rival Web-based phone service. In 2005, Canada's telephone giant Telus blocked customers from visiting a Web site sympathetic to the Telecommunications Workers Union during a contentious labor dispute. Shaw, a major Canadian cable, internet, and telephone service intentionally downgrades the "quality and reliability" of competing Internet-phone services that their customers might choose -- driving customers to their own phone services not through better services, but by rigging the marketplace. In April, Time Warner's AOL blocked all e-mails that mentioned www.dearaol.com -- an advocacy campaign opposing the company's pay-to-send e-mail scheme. This is just the beginning. Cable and telco giants want to eliminate the Internet's open road in favor of a tollway that protects their status quo while stifling new ideas and innovation. If they get their way, they'll shut down the free flow of information and dictate how you use the Internet. Petition and other information on what actions one might be able to take. The Senate to the rescue? |
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| littlgriz |
Re: Internet Neutrality
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| Creol |
The problem with all this being that it is just those companies that are footing the bill to actually pay for the internet to exist in the first place. Companies such as AT&T and Verizon are the ones who are supplying all of the interconnectivity that builds the internet as well as a huge number of the servers that make it function. To replace them, where are you susposing the financing comes from?
It's nice to wish for a neutral internet, but that is all it is. Gov't will not, and should not, be paying for it and that is the only other realistic option for funding. The magor Telcom and Cable companies poured a fortune into developing the infrastructure that allows the net to fuction in both North America and Europe. They were the ones who took the monetary risk (which as it seems was a risk that payed off well) which created the 'Net in its current form (as opposed to the original from between educational institutes which was useless to nearly any current users). Their work and capital made nearly every aspect of the web you list possible. Sure, no problem, shift to a neutral internet. Remove the corporations from the infrastructure. The net will be a lot cheaper and quicker when the only thing you can connect to is the other computers on your LAN since where you run wires (or wireless) will be the limit. Of course you could just add to the nation debt (not like it isnt bad enough already, what is one more extravagant outlet) and have the taxpayers pay for running Fiber and trunks all across the 2 continents (Asia pretty much covers itself - not sure on the aussies). |
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| Dax |
Are you in favor of allowing monopolies to form?
For other companies to stifle competition in any way? I don't think you are, but big picture needs to be looked at. The internet has become another form of media that so far the "Big Six" (Time Warner, Disney, Bertelsmann, Viacom, and Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation) has yet to be able to incorporate. But not for lack of trying. Call me an FDR liberal but breaking up business trusts is the government's job. (Said government has failed miserably in recent decades.) Small-time competitors need to be able to...compete, not stifled. If a business no longer wants to foot the bill, it can leave the business to others who will. (And there will never be a lack of others who will see such voids as the opportunities they are.) Not that such companies would ever leave off such. Even regulated it is far too profitable. *winks* Christina kitty |
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| Creol |
In all honesty, I have to say I actually am. By that I mean to say if you are in business spending your money, It should be you and you alone who makes the rules about how you do it. If you only want to hire 5'4 white blondes with a specific body type, It is your business. Only you (and your investors) should have the right to tell you how to risk your money. It isnt the gov't job to dictate how you live your life or any aspect of it (obviously within reason - anarchy has never proven to be a factor that propagates evolution, certain guildlines are needed, but over regulation only stiffles) While it would be best if competition brought out the best in all, and monopolies (such as Walmarts) didnt obliterate that competition, It should not be the governments job to dictate how someone should spend their own money. The Government is not the one putting up the capital to create the job nor the one at risk of lose it all if the deal falls through (though apparently with bankruptcy and subsity payments the gov't -non partisan - likes to pretend it the one who is at risk) Should the day ever occur where Big Business decides to fight back, all it would take would be for them as a group to close shop for a month to tell the gov't they are sick of living but its rules. Would that day ever happen, the great depression would pale in comparison. Should that day ever happen? personally I realy hope it does. Fat cats on capitol hill vs CEO's in the board room... no competition who would win but unfortunately it is the average working Joe who will suffer to teach the gov't that what "Government for the people, by the people" actually means and not "Goverment for the people because we know what is best for them" Monopolies only survive because we as a people are too lazy and set in our ways to say no. Even in these times of escalating gas prices, If people as a whole said "screw it, we aren't paying that much" the corporations would be forced to make changes, alternatives would have to be looked at. Problem is - We are weak. People would rather bitch and whine but in the end accept what is there than inconvenience themselves and fight for what they beleive is right. Monopolies aren't bad. People being too laxidaisical to put monopolies in check are. This isnt something that is the gov't job to fix. The gov't cant fix the fact that we are a weak willed, slack pushover people. The gov't regulating to try and protect us from ourselves (such as preventing monopolies) does nothing but allow us to be more and more decadant. Only by being forced to think and act for ourselves can we truely be free of it all. I love my country and what it stands for, I served it for almost a decade through Desert Storm and sat off the coast of Bosnia for months on end, But I will be the first to say as a people we just dont frelling care. Half the world hates us for our foreign policy and how they see us even though all but the most fanatic (maybe 1%) even bothers to notice what the gov'y is ever doing as they are too busy trying to get from today to tommorrow. We can not be moved to care for more than a few weeks at a time and then we go right back into our safe comfortable lives and deal once more with crap we bitch constantly about but cant be motivated to bother doing one thing about.
Were just AT&T let alone many of the minor telecoms and the cable company's such as Cox and RoadRunner to shut down service the expense to any company trying to replace their backbone across just north america would be likely to bankrupt most countries. You say new companies will replace it but consider the amount of time it would require to lay hundred of thousands of miles of fibre acrossed the country and from each neighborhood back to routers, and totally ignoring the human nature to say screw it and replace it the easy way out (cellular/wireless) and just make the customer pay the astronomical increase in price (Which is more in my stance on being a monopoly where people are forced to pay a huge increase as that is the only option rather than your stand to the opposite)... even before considering the breadth of the task at hand and knowing it took the established companies that are providing the service now in excess of a decade just to get to where we are, as well as the fact that taxpayers would be footing one hell of an increase to just get the gov't back to a level of miscommunitcation they are at now electronically. The Gov't itself uses the same network as anyone else for all but GLOBAL and above. Hell, yes it had been proven the president can send a 100% ensured delivered direct missage to any magor unit in under 2 minutes, but the team that proved that it could be done couldnt even tell the JCS how they made it happen as it took breaking enough regulations to do it that while doable technically, it was impossible to do legally even with the full range of landlines and satalites at its disposal which breached both secured network protocals and open network security. To have to start all over again and rebuild what is already in place would be like forcing the entire nation (and most of canada) back to using 1200bps modems and slowly build back up to where we already are over the next 15 years. Yes the payoff around 2021 would be great for those companies, if someone didnt come up with a better layout in the mean time, but would it be worth the sufferage over that time period for the general population AND given our indifference as a people would we even bother to tolerate it all rather than just saying "ok, AT&T, do what you want as long as I get my pages served at a decent enough rate... worst case someone else will devise a way to block or sidestep the worst you are making me deal with" |
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| Dax |
I like the fact that I learn from my mistakes, but I would prefer to learn from others mistakes. Case in point Franklin Roosevelt vs. Herbert Hoover. "I have visited sweatshops, factories, crowded slums. If I could not see it, I could smell it" ---Helen Keller (who converted to socialism upon realizing that most who suffered disabilities came from the poor working class who couldn't afford adequate medical care) During the Roaring Twenties, corporate monopolies were allowed to flourish within a loosley regulated economy. Herbert Hoover believed firmly in the idea of a free market and the power of big business. "We shall soon with the help of God be within sight of the day when poverty will be banished from the nation." Irving Fisher, leading US economist in that time, announced that the problem of the business cycle had been solved and that the country had settled on a high plateau of endless prosperity. Yah... Then came October 1929. ....... By the time FDR became president in 1933, business excesses, the depression, and the resulting problems of farmers, laborers, blacks (who were hurt most during the prior Wilson Admin, but that's for another thread), women, and others had produced a great uproar of radical idealism. Roosevelt was afraid that without some demonstrable action, this uproar might adversely affect the government. (In a USSR kind of way) To help preserve the system, he pushed through quite the epic of social and regulatory reforms. First came NIRA, the National Industrial Recovery Act gave the government a way to play a more active part in achieving an economic recovery that market forces alone were apparently unable to manage. In 1935, the supreme Court voided the NIRA and ruled that states couldn't set minimum wage standards. (A continuation of a century old patern of the Supreme Court's defense of business rights over civil or human rights.) This infuriated FDR. Who set to, to break up business trusts, strengthen the regulation of business and financial markets and push through legislation giving stronger guarantees for workers' rights. Programs of public employment were started, and a social safety net installed. (FDR's programs helped create the juggernaut that the US economy is today.)
If not the government then who? Who has the power to enforce equal opportunity laws? Who has the power to promote safety regulations in the workplace? The average consumer? Such a person made Walmart a household name.
Our government would finally kick out all the lobbyists in Washington and go from "big business oriented" back to where it belongs, to "people oriented." This is why it will never happen. Big business would be bankrupt and powerless and return to what Adam Smith originally promoted when he wrote "Wealth of Nations."
You have a different interpretation than I. (For the record I despise Libertarian ideology.)
See Herbert Hoover administration to see how wrong that is.
I agree. But people becoming more politically active is bad for big business.
We are closest today to the "free-trade" ideal than we have ever been. And we went from needing one income (in the 50s and 60s) to live the "American Dream" of having a family, owning a home, having a vehicle or two, having a separate account to help pay for the children's college/university and having a decent pension to retire with Social Security a nice added bonus, Now we need two incomes just to keep our heads above water, without any plans to retire or any financial help whatsoever to give the children to help pay for college. Is it still possible to live the American Dream? Sure. For some. But for many it's not a reality. Social stratification is a reality that many refuse to think about. And the working poor usually gets the shaft.
Not even a consideration. The cables and related equipment aren't going anywhere. Comcast assumed control over miles of cable after Wiltel went bankrupt. (They got that on the cheap, and Wiltel couldn't do a thing about it. What could they have done? Dig it all up?) But a return to the original topic: House panel votes for Net Neutrality Hmm...Even snopes is on this as well. |