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The Duchess of Mint

How do people react to Scar's advances?

Dear Posters,
>I've heard some parts of this musical's soundtrack, including the famous part wherein Scar actually comes onto Nala; he never does this in the movie. How do people in the audience react to this scenario?
SilverTimotei

Most didn't even blink. Interesting to know however, that Scar was gonna come on to Sarabi in the movie, but they thought it would be too much for the kiddies. Rolling Eyes
*bee*

Were they really going to have him come onto Sarabi? Wow, learn something new every day...
SilverTimotei

*bee* wrote:
Were they really going to have him come onto Sarabi? Wow, learn something new every day...



*nods* That would have been GREAT if kept in. *BIG Sarabi fan*!
*bee*

Yeah it would have been great. Very Happy I really wish they would have.
Chi

I playeb my lion king cast recording for my friend Becca once. Her responce was.


"Cool! Scar's gonna rape Nala! Something with out a pun!"



I was just happy to hear it broek away from the disney movie a little bit. Wink


~Chi
The Road

People don't really react because it's so fast-paced, almost cheerful and upbeat!
Ralli Lorna

I haven't seen TLK on B-Way or on Tour, but I'm a fanatic of it, though, and when I heard that Scar was gonna rape Nala, I didn't really believe it. then I remembered that Disney always made everything all cute and cuddly o.O. Ever read the book Bambi? Its all bloody and stuff and Disney made it so cute that I see baby toys and 'bankies' with Bambi on them. But Disney makes movies for kids and all and Bambi has nothing to do with TLK, but I was just trying to say that Disney cuts out alot of things. But back to my reaction: I was surprised and actually thought it woulda been interesting o.O. I mean....*blink*...I dunno what I mean, but ya guys probably get what Im trying ta say. I told some of my friends: they just kinda ignored me considering I dun have any friends so I just told a few kids and they were as surprised as me and thought it woulda been cooler if they did that in the video. alrighty, o.O I'm done. *sits down like a good girl*
Nemi

Heh... I think it's great cuz she's all "Hey! Aren't you listening to me!?" Heh... jsut dled the songs all yesterday... *listens to them* I forgot how awesome TLK is..I wanna see the musical bad...

but anyways, I think it's cool... Scar was/is my fav character in the Original Lion King... I'd be his queen! *grin!* I also find it say that he "Wants to be Adored"... I'd take care of that for him too... *drags along her Scar-loving friend* Very Happy
Ignatesa

yeah, i've never actually seen it, but have the soundtrack. when i first listened to that song, where scars goes "that's it! i need a queen!" i was like "WHAT THE!!!!" but then started giggling when scar's like "come see nala, it's written in the stars. we'll create a host of little scars. tell me i'm adored, please tell me i'm a--aaacckkk" i was just like, "serves ya right"
Mungo_jerrie

i like it cuz it gives areal reason for nala to leave in the frst place and the song that comes after"shadow land" omg is so good
Nadir

Wow, that's freaky! Has anyone got the lyrics to the song, that's scary stuff, didn't know that happened in the musical!
Mungo_jerrie

"shadow land the leaves have fallen
this shadow land, this was our home
the river's dry the ground broken
so i must go, oh i must go oh oh oh

and where the journey
may lead me
let your prayers
be my guide
i can not stay here
my family but i'll remember
my pride"

<alot of african voicalizing, really good stuff>

<cours> and where the journey may lead you
<nala> ohhhh i'll return besi bo geeza boiua bo i will return
<cours> all ways remember your pride

best song in the show if you ask me but i have a crush on heather headly.
Fantine

Nala gets raped by scar?? Shocked
I just can't see this happen... Isn't she like: "No!" or something? Tell me how it happens... Sad
Megan the Phantom Girlie

She doesn't get raped! And Scar apparently doesn't just want to...uh..do her- he wants to marry her. Which is still kind of sick, what with som many Lion King fans of the movie assuming Scar is Nala's dad.
SilverTimotei

Fantine wrote:
Nala gets raped by scar?? Shocked


You REALLY think Disney would have that happen when there are kids watching?! Shocked

Scar talks about having no heir once he snuffs it. Nala comes in. He gets a nasty idea. He wants her to be his queen, wants her to have his cubs, etc etc and etc. He advances towards her, and she scratches him. He then says "one way or another" she will be his.

There is no rape. More like a threat of rape.
Beagle On Stage

The reason Scar was originally planned to come onto Sarabi is because TLK is based on "Hamlet."
SilverTimotei

edit - repeated myself! Laughing
Spylfyr

I thought adding the part where Scar advances on Nala was quite effective and made it more interesting.
Fantine

I have seen the musical myself a few days ago so now I understand what you all mean.

It really does give her a better reason to leave, like she'd finally had enough.

I love that song too Smile
Colle

When I first heard about this change of plot, I was shocked at first, not so much by the time I saw the show because I was exspecting it and it does happen so fast. I agree it does make the reason for Nala leaving, and the song "Shadowland" more powerful.
Yeslek

There are pros and cons:

Since everyone seems to be rather gung-ho about the plot change, I thought I'd present what I saw as the downsides:

--As someone mentioned previously, TLK is based off of Hamlet. Claudius doesn't go after Ophelia, he's all about Gertrude
--Nala is probably Scar's daughter (either his or Mufasa's, and I don't think Disney would have Simba "marrying" his half-sister. Though they'd still be related, she'd only be his cousin-- a bit less incestual, don't you think? Though, in the long run, I doubt Disney really cares whose daughter she is anyway.)
--Because it's a family show, something that should be serious and frightening is dealt with lightly. In the music and staging, it seems a little forced and cutesy. They should deal with it in all seriousness or not at all. It was very orchestrated-- no pun intended.


The pros:

--it gives Nala even more motivation for leaving (although I'd say that facing certain starvation for everyone if she stays is plenty of reason enough)

Hmm.... can't think of any very convincing pros.
beck

Megan the Phantom Girlie wrote:
She doesn't get raped! And Scar apparently doesn't just want to...uh..do her- he wants to marry her. Which is still kind of sick, what with som many Lion King fans of the movie assuming Scar is Nala's dad.


People asume that Scar is Nala's dad from the movie? I don't know why..Scar is Simba's Uncle, so if Scar was Nala's father, Nala and Simba would be cousins. Which isn't possible because Nala and Simba are arranged to be married, and Disney wouldnt have any insenst in they're movie.
Fantine

It is a question never answered. There are two male lions in the pride: Scar and Mufasa.

So our little Nala has a little problem.

Who conceived her?

A lion that wasn't part of the pride?

In nature, I believe that only the leading male lion is allowed to mate with the lionesses from his pride.

I guess Disney just leaves much left to answer.
Mamela*

i think its just one of those things that they dont expect you 2 question. i dont think nala is supposed to be related to either of them. and of course in reality, scar would have been chased from the pride or killed..so u see its not all how it would be in real life.

~love scar by the way!Smile
RainbowJude

Nala's Father / Source Material

Megan the Phantom Girlie wrote:
Scar apparently.... wants to marry (Nala). Which is still kind of sick, what with so many fans of the "Lion King" movie assuming Scar is Nala's dad.

Yeslek wrote:
Nala is probably Scar's daughter (either his or Mufasa's, and I don't think Disney would have Simba "marrying" his half-sister. Though they'd still be related, she'd only be his cousin - a bit less incestual, don't you think? Though, in the long run, I doubt Disney really cares whose daughter she is anyway.)

Fantine wrote:
It is a question never answered. There are two male lions in the pride: Scar and Mufasa. So our little Nala has a little problem.
Who conceived her? A lion that wasn't part of the pride? In nature, I believe that only the leading male lion is allowed to mate with the lionesses from his pride.

The idea that Nala is Scar or Mufasa's daughter doesn't really make sense to me. I suppose there is nothing to refute it, but there is nothing to prove it either. Just because we don't see any other lions in the pride, doesn't mean there aren't any.

In terms of their social structures, a pride of lions may have up to four lions (known as a coalition) that mate with the lionesses. A lioness may mate with more than one lion when she is in heat. We also don't know whether Nala is the cub of a lion that has been expelled from the pride or even if she is the cub of a nomadic lion.

I don't think there's enough evidence to identify who Nala's father is. So I'm not sure that it's a vaild point through which to interpret the events of the play/film.

Beagle On Stage wrote:
(It was originally planned for) Scar to come onto Sarabi because The Lion King is based on Hamlet.

Yeslek wrote:
The Lion King is based on Hamlet. Claudius doesn't go after Ophelia, he's all about Gertrude.

That's a bit reductionist in terms of the source material of The Lion King. Yes, Hamlet provides a great deal of the inspiration for the plot of the show/film.

However, another Shakespearean play, Henry V is also a source that has been used to derive narrative material. This is particularly evident in the characters of Scar and the three hyenas (the equivalents of Cambridge, Scrope and Grey).

Other "officially" named influences include the Bible, particlarly the stories of Joseph and Moses, and of course Disney's original "Circle of Life" film, Bambi. And that doesn't even broach the Kimba controversy.

Although Hamlet is arguably the more influential of the sources on the final product(s), one can't just pretend that it's a straightforward adaptation of the story in the same way that West Side Story is of Romeo and Juliet. For The Lion King, there is no simple framework for comparing the sources used for the show/film to the show/film itself.

Later days
David
kitty17794

Woah, old thread. Shocked

Disney has 'unofficially' said in a press conference (when the TLK dvd was released a few years back) that they never really put thought into Nala's father, but they imagined that it would be either Mufasa or Scar due to the way real lions are.
RainbowJude

Theories....

kitty17794 wrote:
Disney has 'unofficially' said... that they never really put thought into Nala's father, but they imagined that it would be either Mufasa or Scar due to the way real lions are.


They did. At the same press conference, the directors also joked that Roger Allers, the director-screenwriter, could be Nala's father.

I prefer the Down/Maxwell theory:

Down/Maxwell wrote:
Theory: Nala is not the daughter of Scar or Mufasa. Mufasa and Scar took over the Pride Rock Pride and Mufasa mated with all the lionesses including Sarafina (already pregnant by the previous ruler) and Sarabi. Nala and Simba were the result.

Known Film Facts
-Nala and Simba roughly same age
-Sarafina is Nala's mother
-Sarabai and Mufasa are Simba's parents
-Nala and Simba are betrothed
-Mufasa is the leader of the Pride Rock Pride (PRP)
-Scar and Mufasa are brothers
-Scar and Mufasa share a father (Ahadi)
-Nala is never refered to as a daughter of either Scar or Mufasa, nor is she refered to as a relative of Simba's.

Known Lion Facts
-Dominant brother breeds
-Incoming male kills previous males offspring
-Lionesses are related
-Lionesses, not lions, form the base of a pride
-Males change often
-Males tend to wander before finding a pride
-Males are forced out at 3.5 years
-Males can only take over pride after ousting previous male
-Lionesses may deceive incoming males into believing cubs born following a takeover are their own.
-Females will fight to protect their cubs.

Theory: Nala is not the daughter of Scar or Mufasa. Mufasa and Scar took over the PRP and Mufasa mated with all the lionesses including Sarafina (already pregnant) and Sarabi. The result was Nala and Simba, not related by birth.

Support: As Mufasa is the dominant brother; only he can mate with the lionesses. Because of this, Nala would have to be Simba's sister. If Nala were Mufasa's daughter, Scar would have killed her upon ascension to the throne. Nala was left alive, so she can't be Mufasa's daughter. Scar is not the dominant brother, so he cannot have sired Nala. It's never established the line of Ahadi/Mufasa/Simba has held pride rock for the entire line. Given that Scar and Mufasa would have been forced out of Ahadi's pride at 3.5 years, they would have wandered before getting their own pride.

Based on rules of succession, Mufasa and Scar would have assumed the lionesses of pride, but only Mufasa would be allowed reproductive rights. We only see two cubs in the movie suggesting that Mufasa has killed all the cubs currently in the pride at the time of his takeover.

And given the mortality rate of cubs, the lack of cubs at pride rock in the present time, makes sense.

Conclusion: Nala's father will remain anonymous, as neither Pride Rock Male could be here father.


Later days
David
kitty17794

Re: Theories....

RainbowJude wrote:
Mufasa and Scar took over the Pride Rock Pride


Not possible, as the TLK book series has their father Ahadi (and grandfather Mohatu) ruling the Pridelands, with the two brothers to later inherit it. So they weren't rogues who just came through and took over.

It is most likely, for the sake of keeping Disney clean, that Nala's father was a rogue. But who can ever know with Disney logic.
RainbowJude

Re: Theories....

Down/Maxwell wrote:
Mufasa and Scar took over the Pride Rock Pride

kitty17794 wrote:
Not possible, as the TLK book series has their father Ahadi (and grandfather Mohatu) ruling the Pridelands, with the two brothers to later inherit it. So they weren't rogues who just came through and took over.


I don't think that that is the implication of the argument.

Later days
David
wishicouldsing

All though this is all very interesting and fun to speculate, I don't suppose it's honestly all that important, seeing as how the story is the way it is no matter who happens to be the babydaddy.

Just a thought.
i'm_back

I recently saw the show, and I didn't think anything of Scar "coming on" to Nala. There weren't even gasps from the audience either. I think that this situation went along very well with the story line.
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