javertim
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Hearn vs. CariouWho do you prefer?
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Erica
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Re: Hearn vs. Cariou | javertim wrote: | Who do you prefer?
I personally prefer Hearn, because his acting is more convincing and his vocal qualities are more dramatic. However, I've never SEEN Cariou, so I really can't judge him much in the acting area (other than what comes across through recording).
Just wondering.
And why is Hearn generally disliked among ST fans?
THANKS! 
Javertim |
I'm sort of in your boat, only in reverse. I've only ever heard the Len Cariou recording. I'm anxiously waiting for my local library's interlibrary loan system to find and retrieve a copy of the video of Hearn and Lansbury, so that I might see, hear and compare. Since Cariou was my first Sweeney, I wonder if I will have trouble accepting Hearn in the part. I've heard his voice in other recordings, and I agree his voice is amazing. But I'm just in LOVE with the Cariou version. We shall see.
As far as comparing the two, from what I've read Cariou was less of a singer but more of an actor. Having done Shakespeare, he portrayed Sweeney in a Shakesperian way, showing a man with a tragic fatal flaw, in Sweeney's case, the lust for revenge. He brought you into Sweeney's madness, it is said, and made you feel for this man who had been wronged. Hearn, on the other hand, although a stronger singer, pretty much played Sweeney as a madman monster in a somewhat two-dimensional way. I've also read that Cariou's Sweeney was actually more frightening on stage than Hearn's. Cariou could make the audience jump during "Epiphany", it is said, something that Hearn couldn't do. Sadly, I will only ever get to see Hearn's version. I wish there was a copy of Cariou doing the part.
I didn't think Hearn was generally disliked. I thought opinions were generally split. There are those who say Hearn was better, some who say Cariou. I've read more opinions siding with Hearn, actually. I was starting to feel I was in the minority liking Cariou.
Welcome to the Sweeney forum, btw. It was getting lonely here.
Erica
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Jenny
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George H!Hearn - lovely voice! He is wonderful in the '82 video! I love that tape! As a matter of fact, it is playing behind me right now as I type this.
He IS Sweeney 4 me! 
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Erica
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Re: George H! | Jenny wrote: | Hearn - lovely voice! He is wonderful in the '82 video! I love that tape! As a matter of fact, it is playing behind me right now as I type this.
He IS Sweeney 4 me! |
I would be interested to find out if anyone ...how shall I put this... heard one first but prefers the other one. I suspect that we will each prefer the one we heard first. If any of you are Dr. Who fans, you always prefer the Dr. you saw first. Same sort of deal, ya know?
Erica
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IAmMrsLovett
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I personally like Hearn much better, but like other people have said, that's because I have SEEN him do the role, but only HEARD Cariou. Although I do prefer Hearn's singing as well. I do think it's true that most Sweeney fans prefer Len Cariou, however. I regularly post on a Sondheim message board, and a poll between the two showed that Cariou was preferred by a LONG shot! Ah well. . .
Persephone
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Panacea
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Cariou vs. Hearn debateI had the privilege of seeing both Len Cariou and George Hearn perform as Sweeney Todd. In my memory, Cariou had by far the more commanding stage presence. He was a darker, more brooding Todd than Hearn. I have both the original album (yes, RECORDS - 2 OF THEM!) and the video with Hearn. Maybe because I've heard Cariou's voice so often and recall his intonations that I lean toward his version, although Hearn's voice had more formal training.
If I recall correctly, Cariou left the show as he could not keep up with the vocal demands.
For the record, because I saw both the original cast and the second casting, I also had the misfortune to see Dorothy Loudon as Miss Hannigan-Lovett. Okay, it was a Sunday matinee, but a matinee performance is no reason to turn in a sloppy mugfest as your acting contribution.
I also got a twinge seeing Victor Garber in "Titanic"; I still remember him as the young Anthony.
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Erica
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Re: Cariou vs. Hearn debate | Panacea wrote: | I had the privilege of seeing both Len Cariou and George Hearn perform as Sweeney Todd. In my memory, Cariou had by far the more commanding stage presence. He was a darker, more brooding Todd than Hearn. I have both the original album (yes, RECORDS - 2 OF THEM!) and the video with Hearn. Maybe because I've heard Cariou's voice so often and recall his intonations that I lean toward his version, although Hearn's voice had more formal training.
If I recall correctly, Cariou left the show as he could not keep up with the vocal demands.
For the record, because I saw both the original cast and the second casting, I also had the misfortune to see Dorothy Loudon as Miss Hannigan-Lovett. Okay, it was a Sunday matinee, but a matinee performance is no reason to turn in a sloppy mugfest as your acting contribution.
I also got a twinge seeing Victor Garber in "Titanic"; I still remember him as the young Anthony. |
You're just the sort of person I was just asking for in the Misc. forum--someone who'd seen both on stage. Thanks for your post. And thanks for confirming why Cariou left. I had suspected that Sweeney murdered his throat. You can just tell by the way he shouts that it's tearing it up. I still love it anyway.
You didn't get to see Lansbury and Hearn, then? Must have been quite late in the run.
Have you heard Lupone and Hearn? What did you think of that combination?
Erica
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Panacea
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Erica -- Sorry to miss your post on the other board but glad we connected here. I haven't heard the Lupone/Hearn version; I'm afraid I've been remiss in my theatre duties in recent years having exchanged costuming for building historic clothing for reenactors (hey, they pay better than actors!  ) Was Lupone/Hearn the concert version?
I don't remember when Lansbury left the show. We did all go see the original cast quite soon after it opened; in fact, we were all laying in wait for it. We were all big Sondheim addicts in those days! None of us went to see it again until the leads had all changed over. We were sorely disappointed for our troubles, when we did!
One of the other posters made a comment about 'Epiphany' -- when Len Cariou sang the number, the hair on the back of your neck went up. He had an uncanny way of singling out audience members to beckon to. When Hearn did it, you were startled, but not the same way -- if that makes any sense! Throughout the production, Hearn just didn't have the same fire and intensity that Cariou had.
I will say that Betsy Joslyn, the second Johanna that I saw, I thought was actually better than the first (Sarah Rice?)
By the way, did you ever see the "Murder, She Wrote" episode with Len Cariou? He and Angela Lansbury wind up holding a razor in the final scene -- quite an inside joke!
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javertim
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| Panacea wrote: | | I will say that Betsy Joslyn, the second Johanna that I saw, I thought was actually better than the first (Sarah Rice?) |
Betsy is an amazing performer and an incredibly sweet person. I had the privelege of talking to her about her experiences in ST this past Saturday, and she was very nice.
Javertim
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Luke
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I ve never heard hearn do the role but I am tryinghard to find it. It doesn't sound like Cariou was losing his voice. If he did yell he should know how to do it wiht out wrecking his voice if he was shakespearean trained.
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IAmMrsLovett
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Re: Cariou vs. Hearn debate[quote="Panacea"]I have both the original album (yes, RECORDS - 2 OF THEM!) . . .quote]
Ahhh! I have the records as well. . .got them for only a few bucks at a used record/CD/cassette store near my old college. ::hugs her parents' old record player that actually still works::
Persephone
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Mandy of the Amoeba
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I've seen Hearn and only heard Cariou, so I have to say I tend to lean towards preferring Hearn. It's already been said that Cariou played the part darker, but somehow I think even if I had seen him as Todd, I would still prefer Hearn.....he's almost animalistic at times in his mania, and I love that in the character. It makes it easier to believe that he was once a happy man driven insane by grief. Plus, I love the way Epiphany makes me think of Jekyll and Hyde when he does it.....
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Paul W.
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I love them both,but Hearn fits more into the melodramatic,larger than life qualitites of a penny dreadful. He is and always will be Sweeney Todd,
However no one can play Frederick Eagerman in ALNM like Cariou!
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SlayerRob
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| Mandy of the Amoeba wrote: | | I've seen Hearn and only heard Cariou, so I have to say I tend to lean towards preferring Hearn. It's already been said that Cariou played the part darker, but somehow I think even if I had seen him as Todd, I would still prefer Hearn.....he's almost animalistic at times in his mania, and I love that in the character. It makes it easier to believe that he was once a happy man driven insane by grief. Plus, I love the way Epiphany makes me think of Jekyll and Hyde when he does it..... |
can't say if Hearn does that, cuz I haven't heard him, but I prefer Sweeney to be more a mesh of many feelings. I wouldn't think that the act itself would have destroyed all of his inner feelings and made him a complete animal, or he wouldn't have bothered returning.
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SlayerRob
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ok, I just saw the 1982 video with Hearn. He was pretty great
awesome video.
I wasn't a big fan of the concert version just released though. Let's see, the Anthony was singing way out of his range, and the whole miming thing got old to me and made me just want to see the real show.
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Borden
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Cariou by far. My heart is flutering just thinking about it.
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tonyb1981
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Cariou vs Hearn Hi Everyone.
Personally I love both actors. I became a fan of Sweeney when I one night I purchased the copy of the cassette cast recording of Sweeney Todd. At first I purchased it because I had a friend who told that since I enjoyed POTO that I would like Sweeney. Now back in 1997, I was POTO crazed, (I was the South Bronx and I never got axcess to this kind of music until my opportunity to go to a boarding school in MA). I listened to Sweeney cassette and although I enjoyed it, I didnot pay much attention to it at the time. (Big no no when listening to Sondheim). However, one late night, after the lightout time. I decided to listen to Sweeney again but this time pay full attention. Sleep did overcome me but not from bordum but from sheer exhaustion. However, I did listen to it as I slept (Big mistake). I was so moved by the tale that in a way, it was if I permited myself to attend the tale of Sweeney Todd. It was around 3:00 AM when I was awoken (I was still following the on and off again) from the sheer cry of "Oh NO....Oh my God!" When I heard that cry, it drove a stake through my heart. You could hear the anguish in Cariou's voice as he (Sweeney) realized that he killed his beloved Lucy (the Beggar Woman). Now, around 1997, I was an emotionally hurt kid. Perhaps living in the Bronx for most of my life, I became numb to human feeling but let tell you it was at the moment, in the darkness of my room--listening Lansbury (Lovett) excuse her actions to Todd...and Todd crying for Lucy....brought a tears to my eyes.
Anyhow, I became hooked after that. I loved Sweeney Todd: the demon Barber of fleet street ever since and once more I knew that Sweeney was a great show, when graduating senior stoled my cassette copy of Sondheim's classic of madness, passion and vengence.
Like many out there, I personally loved the OBC. However, Hearn's performance of Sweeney Todd on video (DVD April 20th) although wonderful performance, it actually does no justice.
One thing that people tend to forget is that the video was mostly late night rehersals with a couple of live performances. Also the cast were vocally tired during that performance. (Sadly the most obvious Jocylin's voice). Hearn, Lansbury, have shared fond memories of those recorded performances. Hearn was tired and his makeup (slightly heavyer layering for the video) did not help matters. In fact, Hearn told me at the New York Philharmonic cast signing of Sweeney Todd, that the makeup made him feel like he was at seven pounds heavyer and he could hardly open his mouth to sing all the words. He did say that he loved the performances and was proud and sad that the video copies was one of the most soughtout video performances on Ebay but that he wish the distributors would release the film. (what a difference four years makes).
I write this because some people who have only seen the video are a little put off by touring cast performance. However, many people who were there live, felt that it was sheer magic watching Lansbury and Hearn strut their stuff on stage. An older friend of mine (a professor) who saw the OBC and then the touring cast said that watching Mrs. Lansbury and Mr. Hearn was like watching two (and I "")"loveable demons."
Like many I have heard the OBC and have wondered why was Cariou not able to continue? I have read what many people have written about it and my sources indicate that it was one year contract, Cariou really put a strain to his voice and also the dust that was used in during the B-way show played a part. His doctor, apprently advised him not continue because of the srained vocals. Cariou, the professional that he is never complained about the dust nor did complained about a fall he apprently had during one of his "Ephinany" scene. Actually, Cariou did not fall but merely walked a little too fast and actually in the preserve (not for sale) copy of OBC of Sweeney, in the performing Arts Library in Lincoln Center, we can actually see Cariou walk so fast that he is about fall but pushes himself to the point where he jumps down from the staircase to the middle of the stage, (great actor, he is, he never loses his notes and intensity.) Also we can also see Cariou having some vocal trouble during the "A Little Priest" (dust from grave, not because he couldn't handle it).
Actually, Cariou did not fall but merely walked a little too fast and actually in the preserve (not for sale) copy of OBC of Sweeney, in the performing Arts Library in Lincoln Center, we can actually see Cariou walk so fast that he is about fall but pushes himself to the point where he jumps down from the staircase to the middle of the stage, (great actor, he is, he never loses his notes and intensity.) Also we can also see Cariou having some vocal trouble during the "A Little Priest" (dust from grave, not because he couldn't handle it).
Well thats my two cents. Well a little bit then my two cents but I felt that I should that with all of you. Some of this stuff is actually found in the book Sondheim and Co.
Or answer who I prefer...Cariou and Hearn. Hearn stays a little more closer to the pennydreadful urban legend and the idea of Sweeney Todd/ Benjamin Barker being a nobody...like another theatre history character...Willy Lowman.
Cariou played it like an Othello, a Macbeth, a Hamlet way (his Shakesperean training). However, ewon't forget the chills that crept down my spine when I saw Cariou in the preserve video during "My friends".....oohhooo creepy.
I get another kind of chills when I see Hearn in the touring cast video. The scene just before he introduces the Judge Turpin to his friend...the razor thus extracting his revenge. Also he really screams out Benjamin Barker as if the Barker side of Sweeney is coming forth from an unnatural sleep.
Hearn vs Cariou?
Cariou played more sexier the Hearn however, I really like Hearn.
I just don't know.
P.S.
Someone in another part of this forum wrote something uncalled for about Cariou having sex with Lansbury and he being replaced because she was not satisfied. Cariou was dating Glen Close at the time and he and Lansbury have been nothing more then friends and demon barber and pastry cook.
[/i]
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Mrs Badger
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| Quote: | | I would be interested to find out if anyone ...how shall I put this... heard one first but prefers the other one. I suspect that we will each prefer the one we heard first. If any of you are Dr. Who fans, you always prefer the Dr. you saw first. Same sort of deal, ya know? |
Well, the first Sweeney I saw was the opera singer Sir Thomas Allen. THAT was interesting...
I'm a Hearn person, definately, although this is based only on hearing Cariou. I know a lot of critics don't really like Hearn because he tends to be a little simplistic in his characterisation, but I love him regardless. I find him quite powerful in the part - just look at his eyes during "There's no place like London" and you'll see what I mean.
As I said, I've only heard Cariou, but I was dissapointed when I first listened to his Sweeney. In "A Little Priest", he sounds like he's woken up too early - he doesn't seem to be interested in what he's singing at all. Also compare his "at last my right arm is complete again" to Hearn's. Hearn seems to have much more of an impact when he says the lines, and I always feel that Cariou underplays the role in some places. His 'Epiphany' is great though.
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maryj
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Cariou is phenomenalI saw Cariou on August 1, 1979 - that must have been about six months into the run - and he did not seem to be in any greater vocal trouble than anyone else. I have a very distinct recollection of his rising through a trap door from beneath the stage in the last reprise - although elsewhere people suggest that the "grave" image was replaced early on. The mind will play tricks!
I am fascinated by the observations by a number of people about how attractive Cariou made the character - indeed, a very darkly romantic and sensual type, which makes his portrayal even creepier. But it also makes sense - Mrs. Lovett obviously had "a thing" for him - keeping his barber tools safe and waiting all those years. Cariou was able to make a song like "Pretty Women" truly beautiful - to remind you of the loving husband and father he had been before his mistreatment by the judge and beadle.
I have only seen Hearn in the video - I sense that the camera was not kind to him - but he is perhaps a little more brutish. His violence seems more natural, as though he may have been a potentially violent man all along. Cariou made the violence seem like a distortion of his character, almost beyond his conscious control.
Both performances were memorable - my favorite is my first, the incomparable Mr. Cariou.
Did anyone see Cariou in Night Music (NOT the movie)? I bet he was superb opposite Glynus Johns!
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Perogo Ness
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Re: Cariou is phenomenal | maryj wrote: | | Cariou was able to make a song like "Pretty Women" truly beautiful - |
Pretty Women is beautiful even without Cariou.
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maryj
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Pretty WomenI was not suggesting that it is not a beautiful song. My point was that Cariou sings it like a love song, his voice is passionate and dreamy in quality. I have heard other performers who sing each Sweeney song with an undertone of harshness or anger.
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Perogo Ness
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It just depends on the choices made by the actor. Hearn sings it more like small talk.
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rampart519
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Re: Cariou vs. Hearn debate[quote="IAmMrsLovett"] | Panacea wrote: | I have both the original album (yes, RECORDS - 2 OF THEM!) . . .quote]
Ahhh! I have the records as well. . .got them for only a few bucks at a used record/CD/cassette store near my old college. ::hugs her parents' old record player that actually still works::
Persephone |
I actually bought the two record set back before CD's were even invented. As a young man I remember attending a weekely acting class. The instructor would have Sweeney playing on the record player when we arrived. This was my introduction to a Musical that I have been trying to convince everyon I know to put on for years. I am now 42 years old and am finally old enough to play the role of Sweeney. I hope someday I get the chance. I am currently playing Fagin in "Oliver!" which is my second favourite Character.
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dana_c
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i'm a BIG fan of hearn over cariou.... i did first hear cariou over hearn and i really love george hearn! we have both recordings with george hearn and i just like him more.... that's all i can say
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ByeByeBirdieFan89
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I think it's pretty ridiculous to compare them when you've only seen Hearn and not Cariou. What's the point?
Although I will say - it gets annoying when Hearn takes optional notes on the video, especially during EPIPHANY. Cariou's version is PERFECT, dark and so powerful. And what is up with the tempo of the song on the Hearn/Lansbury video.
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Salome
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Its called being in the moment. I hate it when an actor sings every thing lalalal exactly as written with no personality. Hearn had plenty of personality in the role. he is amazing.
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Erica
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| Salome wrote: | | Its called being in the moment. I hate it when an actor sings every thing lalalal exactly as written with no personality. Hearn had plenty of personality in the role. he is amazing. |
Poor guy. He had too much personality in the role. You're not supposed to get a laugh during "Alittle Priest" when you get to the part about the actor always arriving overdone.
Cariou was scary in the part. He sang it as if he were a ghost sometimes.
I just wish that they hadn't insisted on recording the OBC right away. He got some of the dirt from the grave down his throat, and it gave him laryngitis. He had no upper register. I've heard that he was much better once that cleared up. But we got the strained voice on the OBC, sadly.
I prefer a good actor to a good singer. I can live with the strained voice to get the good actor that Len is.
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what_the_heck013
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If memory served me correctly, Cariou is on the OBCR and Hearn is on the DVD, right? In that case, I haven't actually seen Cariou act, but I do prefer him on the OBCR.
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Erica
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| what_the_heck013 wrote: | | If memory served me correctly, Cariou is on the OBCR and Hearn is on the DVD, right? In that case, I haven't actually seen Cariou act, but I do prefer him on the OBCR. |
It is more a matter of HEARING him act, isn't it. Good point. I've seen Hearn, and only heard Cariou, but still prefer him.
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what_the_heck013
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I was listening to/watching my various copies of Sweeney and realized why I don't like the one with LuPone and Hearn. They are both louder and more boisterous than Lansbury and Cariou. Hearn belts loudly at times when Cariou might be more hushed, and in that situation Cariou's approach is better. Does this make sense? I think my main point is that Cariou is more in character.
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Erica
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| what_the_heck013 wrote: | | I was listening to/watching my various copies of Sweeney and realized why I don't like the one with LuPone and Hearn. They are both louder and more boisterous than Lansbury and Cariou. Hearn belts loudly at times when Cariou might be more hushed, and in that situation Cariou's approach is better. Does this make sense? I think my main point is that Cariou is more in character. |
Yes, it does. I've heard it said that Lansbury was playing her part broadly comedic while Cariou was playing his melodramatic. I wish I could have seen them on stage. It is said that there was a sort of tension between them, but a good one, as each played off the other. Hearn played Sweeney in a similar, almost comedic vein as Lansbury, and so the tension was gone. A nice man by all accounts, but just not scary enough for the part.
I think that's what I like the most about Cariou, what you said. He's more in character. He sounds as if he's singing from the grave at times, as in his "You. will. learn" as he speaks to Anthony at the beginning.
Cariou's way of performing is as if Sweeney is giving a performance from hell.
Eh, I could rattle on, and I'm not sure I'm being clear either.
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Salome
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you were watching a cvoncert version..check out the full production with hearn and lansbury....hearn is the perfect sweeney todd.
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Salome wrote: | | hearn is the perfect sweeney todd. |
YOU'VE NEVER SEEN LEN PLAY THE PART!! STOP SAYING THAT!
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Erica
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| Salome wrote: | | you were watching a cvoncert version..check out the full production with hearn and lansbury....hearn is the perfect sweeney todd. |
Um, no. I saw the full production, not the concert. Granted, it was toward the end of the run when everyone was tired, and half the original cast wasn't there anymore.
But sorry, Len Cariou out does Hearn for me, and all I've heard is Len's voice. He's better at acting through his voice.
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BenjaminB
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Over the last few days, I listened to the original cast recording, watched the 1982 filmed stage show, and the concert version. I do like Hearn, but I like Cariou.
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EponineBarker
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I think Hearn is probably my favorite, but Cariou is a VERY close second. And to keep everyone happy, since I've never seen Cariou and I only seen the concert version, I am only going to compare them vocally.
One thing during "Epiphany" I thought Hearn was a bit more insane as Sweeney, whereas Cariou was more meanicing. Like one thing of Cariou's that I liked better was when he said "No one's in the chair, come on! COME ON!"
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Ghost
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| Quote: | | hearn is the perfect sweeney todd. |
Will you stop the pointless comments! They're convincing nobody.
Anybody with half-a-brain can make up their own mind about who they prefer.
I'm glad to see Cariou getting more and more respect for his performance. I't's very sad he wasn't featured on a commercial video recording of the show.
By the way, did you know that John Cullum was asked to originate Sweeney on Broadway but he refused the offer... bad move.
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Salome
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Cullum did indeed turn it down...too bad..He is so brillaint. Although his career didnt hurt because of it..its still a shame he never played the role.
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Ghost
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Cullum could have had a role of his lifetime with Sweeney, but you can't blame him. The show doesn't really look that promising on paper does it?
Cullum is still an all-time great but he really could have been another John Raitt or Alfred Drake had he originated Sweeney.
Still, I'm not complaining. Cariou was a fine choice for the role.
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Salome
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| Ghost wrote: | Cullum could have had a role of his lifetime with Sweeney, but you can't blame him. The show doesn't really look that promising on paper does it?
Cullum is still an all-time great but he really could have been another John Raitt or Alfred Drake had he originated Sweeney.
Still, I'm not complaining. Cariou was a fine choice for the role. |
Cullum is an all time great. Much moreso than John Raitt. Raitt only appeared in 2 Musicals on broadway..Carousel and Pajama Game. he to my knowledge never won a Tony.
Cullum's Two Tony career included such great musicals as !776,On a Clear Day,Shenendoah,On the 20th Century,Urinetown.
Not ot mention the factt hat Cullum is a giant of drama as well (exapmples being The Boys in Autumn,All My Sons,Hamlet, etc...)
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Sweeney Hyde
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I have an absolutly fantastic book on Broadway history that says of Cariou:
"Perhaps the show's near-operatic score was too demanding for singers withour vocal chords of steel, for although the role has never been as chillingly acted, Criou's singing voice never sounded quite the same after Sweeney, and indeed, in his next show, the flop Dance a Little Closer, he seemed to have lost it entirely."
from Broadway Musicals: The 101 Greatest Shows of All Time by Ken Bloom and Frank Vlastnik
I think that Cariou was the better actor, but Hearn had had been in the Opera before turning towards Musical Theatre. I think that each had their goods and bads. I only wish we could sombine their DNA to make Len Hearn! Someone with the stage presence and acting ability of Cariou and the operatic voice of Hearn to make a SUPER SWEENEY!
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Salome
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Ive seen both cariou asnd hearn on stage i love them both..but i find hearn a slightly better actor.
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bwayluvor31
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I can't judge Cariou's acting, only the OBC recording, but based on that, I don't think he had a powerful enough voice to really put passion into some moments, but maybe the visual made up for it.
I love Hearn (on both DVDs)! His voice is rich and he can sing his notes purely or add the growl too it that makes his Sweeney so menacing. I like his acting a lot too. He changed his overall Sweeney over the years though and I can't tell which one I prefer. His earlier Sweeney was very sad and heart broken, while his later Sweeney was very angry and a lot more revengeful.
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EponineBarker
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Can't we just say that they both were good?  I think that they both brought out something different in Sweeney.
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Sweeney Hyde
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EponineBarker is absolutely right...they both approached the character in a different way, which we all know is hard to do...however...it's still fun to talk about people's opinions on a particular actor's take on a character! 
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EponineBarker
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| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | EponineBarker is absolutely right...they both approached the character in a different way, which we all know is hard to do...however...it's still fun to talk about people's opinions on a particular actor's take on a character! |
Thank you. And you're absolutely right too, it IS fun to talk about people's opinions on a particular actor's take on a character! 
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Ghost
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Sweeney Hyde, that's book is just fantastic.
Yes, both are great.
Did you know that Hearn has stated, that when he got the role of Sweeney, he thought Cariou's performance was so brilliant all he could do was imitate him, even down to the fact that, even while being right-handed, Hearn played Sweeney left-handed, since Cariou is left handed.
I'm not saying Hearn's Sweeney was an imitation of Cariou though, his potrayal became very different.
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Da_Dark_Dude
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hearn is god
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EponineBarker
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| Ghost wrote: | Sweeney Hyde, that's book is just fantastic.
Yes, both are great.
Did you know that Hearn has stated, that when he got the role of Sweeney, he thought Cariou's performance was so brilliant all he could do was imitate him, even down to the fact that, even while being right-handed, Hearn played Sweeney left-handed, since Cariou is left handed.
I'm not saying Hearn's Sweeney was an imitation of Cariou though, his potrayal became very different. |
Now that interesting. Where did you hear that?
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Ghost
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It was mentioned on Sondheim.com's message board. It's probably from an interview with Hearn.
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | I have an absolutly fantastic book on Broadway history that says of Cariou:
"Perhaps the show's near-operatic score was too demanding for singers withour vocal chords of steel, for although the role has never been as chillingly acted, Criou's singing voice never sounded quite the same after Sweeney, and indeed, in his next show, the flop Dance a Little Closer, he seemed to have lost it entirely."
from Broadway Musicals: The 101 Greatest Shows of All Time by Ken Bloom and Frank Vlastnik |
The score had nothing to do with Cariou's vocal problems. If Ken Bloom had actually spoken with anyone associated with the original run he would have known why Cariou's voice was destroyed.
Those familiar with the 82 video of Todd with Hearn might think that Sweeneys entrance into the show (the crowd all standing around him and then running away revealing him) was the original way they did it. In fact, in the original production Cariou came up through the floor as if Sweeney were rising from the grave. There was dust and dirt sprayed to add to the effect. Cariou was breathing in this dust night after night and his vocals were severely damaged. His doctor told him he needed to quit the show but he refused. In fact he did not miss any performances. By the time his run was over it was too late. His voice never fully recovered.
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EponineBarker
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| The REAL Ciaron wrote: | | Sweeney Hyde wrote: | I have an absolutly fantastic book on Broadway history that says of Cariou:
"Perhaps the show's near-operatic score was too demanding for singers withour vocal chords of steel, for although the role has never been as chillingly acted, Criou's singing voice never sounded quite the same after Sweeney, and indeed, in his next show, the flop Dance a Little Closer, he seemed to have lost it entirely."
from Broadway Musicals: The 101 Greatest Shows of All Time by Ken Bloom and Frank Vlastnik |
The score had nothing to do with Cariou's vocal problems. If Ken Bloom had actually spoken with anyone associated with the original run he would have known why Cariou's voice was destroyed.
Those familiar with the 82 video of Todd with Hearn might think that Sweeneys entrance into the show (the crowd all standing around him and then running away revealing him) was the original way they did it. In fact, in the original production Cariou came up through the floor as if Sweeney were rising from the grave. There was dust and dirt sprayed to add to the effect. Cariou was breathing in this dust night after night and his vocals were severely damaged. His doctor told him he needed to quit the show but he refused. In fact he did not miss any performances. By the time his run was over it was too late. His voice never fully recovered. |
Darn. That's a bummer. He was good.
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Salome
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his voice didnt fully recover but..its still a strong voice and he has such a great quality.
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EponineBarker
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| Salome wrote: | | his voice didnt fully recover but..its still a strong voice and he has such a great quality. |
Has he recorded anything else besides 'Sweeney' or was his voice too damaged to do any other musicals, and such?
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Salome
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His voice is fine. I dont recall any recordings since sweeney but I have him on video tape from 1988 in the "Evening with Alan Jay Lerner" special. he sings "Come Back to me" from On A Clear Day and a trio "One More Walk Around teh Garden" from Carmelina with John Cullum and Hal LInden.
He also starred in the short lived broadway musical "Teddy and ALice" in 1992.
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Sweeney Hyde
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| Salome wrote: | | His voice is fine. I dont recall any recordings since sweeney but I have him on video tape from 1988 in the "Evening with Alan Jay Lerner" special. he sings "Come Back to me" from On A Clear Day and a trio "One More Walk Around teh Garden" from Carmelina with John Cullum and Hal LInden. |
Why didn't John Cullum sing "Come Back to Me"?
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Salome
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Cullum sang the title song.
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EponineBarker
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| Salome wrote: | His voice is fine. I dont recall any recordings since sweeney but I have him on video tape from 1988 in the "Evening with Alan Jay Lerner" special. he sings "Come Back to me" from On A Clear Day and a trio "One More Walk Around teh Garden" from Carmelina with John Cullum and Hal LInden.
He also starred in the short lived broadway musical "Teddy and ALice" in 1992. |
Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. It's a pity that after ten years of playing leading men in musicals/plays, he only won one Tony.
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Salome
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look at all the great stars who never won a Tony..
Ethel Merman
David Carroll
Raul Julia
Judy Kuhn
Melissa Errico
etc..etc..
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Sweeney Hyde
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^^Julie Andrews too...
I have come to the conclusion that the Tony's don't mean THAT much when it comes to which performance and which actor was REALLY the best. I mean, take the 1960 Tony's for instance. I really doubt that both Fiorello! and The Sound of Music were better than Gypsy. I also greatly doubt that Mary Martin did better with Maria Von Trapp than Ethel Merman did with Mama Rose, undoubtably one of the greatest roles ever created.
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Salome
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Fiorillo could easily give Gypsy a run for its money. its a great great show. now Sound of music?? ugh..i dont see how it got into that catagory.
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EponineBarker
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| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | ^^Julie Andrews too...
I have come to the conclusion that the Tony's don't mean THAT much when it comes to which performance and which actor was REALLY the best. I mean, take the 1960 Tony's for instance. I really doubt that both Fiorello! and The Sound of Music were better than Gypsy. I also greatly doubt that Mary Martin did better with Maria Von Trapp than Ethel Merman did with Mama Rose, undoubtably one of the greatest roles ever created. |
Good point. I guess your right. (It's still a bummer about Cariou, though.  )
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The REAL Ciaron
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| Sweeney Hyde wrote: | | I greatly doubt that Mary Martin did better with Maria Von Trapp than Ethel Merman did with Mama Rose, undoubtably one of the greatest roles ever created. |
Why would you doubt Mary Martin? Merman was NOT a good actress. She was wooden if anything. She had a big old voice but Martin could and did act circles around her. People involved with the OBC of "Gypsy" including Sondheim himself have commented on the fact that Merman really had no idea who Rose was. In fact, it wasn't until Angela Lansbury played Rose that both Sondheim and Laurents were happy with an actors take on Rose.
| Ghost wrote: | | did you know that John Cullum was asked to originate Sweeney on Broadway but he refused the offer... bad move. |
He was but Sondheim had Cariou in mind when writing the show. He did not bother to ask Cariou because Len was involved with another project at the time which fell through.
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actionjaxson91
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HearnHearn has much more emotion and he adds a certain "madness" to the role
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Ghost
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| Quote: | | Hearn has much more emotion and he adds a certain "madness" to the role |
Then again Sweeney is not about overflowing emotion and screaming, is it?
"Sweeney was smooth, Sweney was subtle..." you know...
To me, Sweeney should pretty cold and wooden almost up until "Epiphany". The problem with Hearn is that he is simply insane and screaming the whole way through, so his Epiphany doesn't really have the same impact as Cariou's had.
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EponineBarker
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| Ghost wrote: | | Quote: | | Hearn has much more emotion and he adds a certain "madness" to the role |
Then again Sweeney is not about overflowing emotion and screaming, is it?
"Sweeney was smooth, Sweney was subtle..." you know...
To me, Sweeney should pretty cold and wooden almost up until "Epiphany". The problem with Hearn is that he is simply insane and screaming the whole way through, so his Epiphany doesn't really have the same impact as Cariou's had. |
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I thought, (especially in the Concert version) that Hearn was subtle up to 'Epiphany'.
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actionjaxson91
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| EponineBarker wrote: | | Ghost wrote: | | Quote: | | Hearn has much more emotion and he adds a certain "madness" to the role |
Then again Sweeney is not about overflowing emotion and screaming, is it?
"Sweeney was smooth, Sweney was subtle..." you know...
To me, Sweeney should pretty cold and wooden almost up until "Epiphany". The problem with Hearn is that he is simply insane and screaming the whole way through, so his Epiphany doesn't really have the same impact as Cariou's had. |
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I thought, (especially in the Concert version) that Hearn was subtle up to 'Epiphany'. |
Exactly! Hearn had one point of screaming before his "Epiphany" and that was "At last my right arm is complete again!!!" Cariou said this with a definate flatness. It was boring and kindof a let down. I DO like Cariou, however, because he has a way of ignoring Mrs. Lovett until he ABSOLUTELY needs her. Hearn does this also but not as coldly as Cariou.
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javertim
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| actionjaxson91 wrote: | | EponineBarker wrote: | | Ghost wrote: | | Quote: | | Hearn has much more emotion and he adds a certain "madness" to the role |
Then again Sweeney is not about overflowing emotion and screaming, is it?
"Sweeney was smooth, Sweney was subtle..." you know...
To me, Sweeney should pretty cold and wooden almost up until "Epiphany". The problem with Hearn is that he is simply insane and screaming the whole way through, so his Epiphany doesn't really have the same impact as Cariou's had. |
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I thought, (especially in the Concert version) that Hearn was subtle up to 'Epiphany'. |
Exactly! Hearn had one point of screaming before his "Epiphany" and that was "At last my right arm is complete again!!!" Cariou said this with a definate flatness. It was boring and kindof a let down. I DO like Cariou, however, because he has a way of ignoring Mrs. Lovett until he ABSOLUTELY needs her. Hearn does this also but not as coldly as Cariou. |
I've never understood why anyone would scream the "at last my arm ..." line. Listen to the Beadle's passage just following that: "His voice was soft, his manner mild." That's definitely not the way Hearn approaches the line. Cariou does a much better job listening to the lyrics and using them to construct his character. And, at the end of the day, there is no contesting which is the better actor. Cariou is a master at what he does and I doubt I will ever see anyone play the part any better. I just wish more people would go out of their way to see his performance on the archival video at Lincoln Center. It would change your mind concerning the two performers -- I have no doubt of it.
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TychoBrahe
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Believe me, that would be great, but Lincoln Center is a little far; besides, don't you have to be Equity to be permitted to view the archived footage?
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javertim
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No, you just have to have a New York Public Library card ... But then I've made appointments and viewed videos without having to present my card.
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EponineBarker
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| javertim wrote: | | actionjaxson91 wrote: | | EponineBarker wrote: | | Ghost wrote: | | Quote: | | Hearn has much more emotion and he adds a certain "madness" to the role |
Then again Sweeney is not about overflowing emotion and screaming, is it?
"Sweeney was smooth, Sweney was subtle..." you know...
To me, Sweeney should pretty cold and wooden almost up until "Epiphany". The problem with Hearn is that he is simply insane and screaming the whole way through, so his Epiphany doesn't really have the same impact as Cariou's had. |
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I thought, (especially in the Concert version) that Hearn was subtle up to 'Epiphany'. |
Exactly! Hearn had one point of screaming before his "Epiphany" and that was "At last my right arm is complete again!!!" Cariou said this with a definate flatness. It was boring and kindof a let down. I DO like Cariou, however, because he has a way of ignoring Mrs. Lovett until he ABSOLUTELY needs her. Hearn does this also but not as coldly as Cariou. |
I've never understood why anyone would scream the "at last my arm ..." line. Listen to the Beadle's passage just following that: "His voice was soft, his manner mild." That's definitely not the way Hearn approaches the line. Cariou does a much better job listening to the lyrics and using them to construct his character. And, at the end of the day, there is no contesting which is the better actor. Cariou is a master at what he does and I doubt I will ever see anyone play the part any better. I just wish more people would go out of their way to see his performance on the archival video at Lincoln Center. It would change your mind concerning the two performers -- I have no doubt of it. |
You do have a point there about the lyric thing. But I usually try to compare the two, by voice acting only, since I've never seen Cariou do Sweeney.
But IMHO, I think they both bring out something different in Sweeney.
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The REAL Ciaron
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Re: Hearn | actionjaxson91 wrote: | | Hearn has much more emotion and he adds a certain "madness" to the role |
How many times did you see Cariou?
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Mistress
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ahhhhhhh! I must obtain a copy of the original cast recording...alas being only 18, born in '89 I didn't get to see Sweeny at all until I discovered the Hearn/Lansbury movie on Youtube. I saw a few clips and loved it and then rented it from my library and watched the whole thing. I thought Hearn was very much the scenery chewer, but I actually enjoyed that...but from what I've heard about Cariou, I think I'd probably like him better. Alas, I live in Canada and cannot view this archgval Lincoln Centre footage you have been speaking of, but I will definantly listen to the original cast recording and get a hint of what he was like. I'm also curious to hear Victor Garber sing (I'm used to thinking of him as Jack Bristow in Alias, I didn't even know he ahd a musicalk theatre career until recently).
Anyway, I am also anxiously waiting for tickets to go on sale for the National tour odf the revibal so i can see it with my cousin in Toronto when it comes to the Princess of Wales Theatre. I'm excited!
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Pelaphus
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I saw all the Broadway Sweeneys too, several times (I also saw the performance where the bridge collapsed, but that's another story) ...
Len Cariou brought to the table a brooding, dark intelligence, which is pretty much his general persona. He was wonderful, and his voice, though characteristically smoky, was just fine (until he blew it out near the end of his run, but I'll get to that). He was actually a very human and "realistic" center in the midst of all the Grand Guignol/Music Hall archetypes, and the contrast was very effective. Near the end of his run, though, either he desired or he was encouraged by Hal Prince, to take the role to a more Grand Guignol place, and he kind of lost the center, going for extremes with a lot of yelling and histrionics that simply weren't in his natural vocabulary, and those moments were uncomfortable to watch, because he wasn't in control. (It may have been a function of him straining as his voice was going, which can do weird things to a performer's equilibrium. And to be fair, it's a wicked role to sing eight times a week. Evita had her matinee alternates and Sweeney deserved one too.)
Hearn, on the other hand, because his vocal instrument is so much stronger (I don't mean aesthetically better, both were equally compelling, but a purer, more resonant and clearly more durable vocal technique), and because he'd spent his prior career as a regional and replacement/road go-to-guy (Sweeney was his breakout role, he hadn't been a star before), was more suited to embrace the Grand Guignol approach. Indeed, the reason I suspect Prince prodded Cariou in that direction is because Hearn ripped into it so vigorously right out of the gate. Hearn's triumph was finding ways to inject genuine humanity into a deliberately stylized approach. Like Cariou, though, he did get broader over the long haul. The difference is, he never seemed like he was reaching beyond his technique or straining, though he might have done with some reining in.
I happen to have loved Dorothy Loudon's Mrs. Lovett. Yes, I did see her play to the crowd when she knew she had one that would dote on her ... but to a "regular" house, she gave auntie Nellie a touching and slightly desperate vulnerability ... and when she was at the top of her game, she was every bit the equal of Angela and Patti.
Finally, I think Betsy Joslyn has gotten a bum rap owing to the video of her '82 performance as Johanna. It was the end of a tour, she had (as you know) done the role on Broadway, and she too had gotten broader. Also, I think the quality she brought to the role onstage didn't quite translate to the tube -- it was too big for the intimate medium, and probably would have needed some reconception or re-direction there wasn't time to get to. The amazing thing she'd done with it was exploit the humor: the role doesn't have a great deal of humanity, the aria aside, and Betsy gave it an interesting an unexpected color -- and she never "pitched out" the way she does on the vid ...she was also a terrific foil for Cris Groenendaal, because he too, with that kind of dopey boyishness he was so good at, popped out at you more than Garber did (again, not better, just a very different energy) and they seemed to be "getting each other's wavelength." (People who've only seen the vid and weren't around NYC then aren't hip to the fact that it was her universally lauded turn as a revelatory Johanna that made Joslyn a Broadway notable for quite some time: it led to her having the role of Nora in A DOLL'S LIFE, plus playing the witch in WOODS and a Celeste and Dot in SUNDAY.)
As a show, throughout its run, SWEENEY seemed to be in a constant state of discovery, which was reflected in small rewrites and changes (some bigger ones come the road tour, and a few after) and some of this was reflected as the casting sensibility went through subtle changes.
And it was a privilege to be there every time ...
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