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Barberous

Does Sweeney still care about Johanna by the end?

I'm leaning towards the 'yes'. These are a few reasons that might back up the 'yes' or 'no':

YES - Sweeney's love for, and interest in, Johanna always stays strong. The 'Johanna' quartet shows simply that he has no hope left of recovering her, and is trying to deal with that. His plot to lure the judge to his shop is killing two birds with one stone, enabling him to kill the judge AND, theoretically, be reunited with his daughter. He's obsessed with killing the judge BECAUSE he still loves Johanna. And without his love for his family staying strong, the show's ending doesn't work.

NO - The quartet, and Sweeney's plotting around Anthony's rescue of Johanna, indicate that Sweeney doesn't care about his daughter anymore. She becomes just bait to help him get to the judge. He's becoming less human, letting revenge consume him, etc. This is an important part of Sweeney's tragedy.

Wotcher reckon?
dolbinau

This is a good question, I personally would like to believe he was mainly after revenge and lost interest in his daughter - but I still get the impression he did care for her. In the movie it is more apparent he loses interest IMO, Sweeney says "we've got him" instead of "Johanna is as good as rescued" when Anthony reveals details about Fogg's asylum.
mastachen

I disagree that the quartet showed that Sweeney lost interest in her daughter. If anything, it showed that he is still constantly thinking about her, even while killing his customers.
ActingDude17

mastachen wrote:
I disagree that the quartet showed that Sweeney lost interest in her daughter.


You calling Sweeney a woman? Laughing

Nevertheless, I agree with you, Alex. Very Happy
Clarabelle

I think that he isn't interested in HER, but in the ideal of her. He does not know her. He isn't thinking about the fact she is a grown woman now- he remembers her as a baby and Lucy as a young woman, and wants her back but I don't think it is her as a tangible person he wants but what she represents. Hence why Anthony is clearly motivated by Johanna but Sweeney is more motivated by revenge.

A bit like when you break up with someone and you really miss them and say you want them back, but you know the relationship was crap, but you miss the ideal of it all, not the actual thing itself. Sweeney does not miss Johanna herself as he has never really known her as her.
Fantine

Very interesting thoughts.

I have only seen the movie yesterday but I think that if Sweeney had realised that the "boy" who he wanted to kill if it hadn't been for Mrs. Lovett's screams was actually Johanna, I feel that his killing spree would have ended at last and there would be a happy reunion.
le_moofin

Clarabelle wrote:
I think that he isn't interested in HER, but in the ideal of her. He does not know her. He isn't thinking about the fact she is a grown woman now- he remembers her as a baby and Lucy as a young woman, and wants her back but I don't think it is her as a tangible person he wants but what she represents. Hence why Anthony is clearly motivated by Johanna but Sweeney is more motivated by revenge.

A bit like when you break up with someone and you really miss them and say you want them back, but you know the relationship was crap, but you miss the ideal of it all, not the actual thing itself. Sweeney does not miss Johanna herself as he has never really known her as her.


I was going to post, but you pretty much took the words out of my mouth =D Great post!
Dots Parasole

I don't think Sweeney cares about anyone but Lucy by that point in the story. He never knew Johanna. I am sure he loved her on some level. Johanna was fuel for Sweeney's revenge. His enemy had his daughter. I personally think that "Epiphany" is Sweeneys breaking point. After that song he is just bonkers.
GinnyWeasley201

Oh he still cares.

when he sings "Goodbye Johanna, you gone and yet your mine."
to me just means....I haven't seen you in while. I think I won't, but you're still my daughter wheather or not you know that.
Joshua

That's a bigass signature you got there, bud.
ActingDude17

That's a bigass attitude you got, Joshua.
Joshua

ActingDude17 wrote:
That's a bigass attitude you got, Joshua.

Hmm, I wasn't aware! Arrow
Fantine

It IS way too big though.
Joshua

Fantine wrote:
It IS way too big though.














need...to...say...it........can't.......stop...


THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!


sorry.
fjays

Great call! haha
IndigoMedusa

I think Sweeney does still care about her. Keep in mind that it is the loss of his beloved Lucy and Johanna that drives him to do what he did...


"And I'll never see Johanna...
No I'll never hug my girl to me...
FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
       Musicals.Net Forums -> Sweeney Todd
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