Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net
 


       Musicals.Net Forums -> The MdN Social Club
Matthew

Discussion Regarding "The F Word"

The six letter one.

Discuss.

Go.
dolbinau

Faggot?
Matthew

Yes.
Beagle On Stage

What about it?
Yakko

Why why would we talk about a term for someone who's gay or what the British call a cigerite?
kozafluitmusique

As much as I don't understand why there's a thread about mentioning it, I think the word itself is disrespectful.
Matthew

Some people are really anti the word being spoken whatsoever, others find it socially acceptable. I'm looking to see who sits where.
LaurelDP

Very, very few words make me cringe. I can barely go an hour without saying "d*ck" or "f*ck".
But this word really makes me cringe.
Buff Daddy

I thought you were talking about pork offal meatballs! My mistake.

Buff Very Happy
SmallTownIngenue

LaurelDP wrote:

But this word really makes me cringe.


Same here. I have seen how hurtful the word really can be when one is called that.
Beagle On Stage

I don't personally view it as obscene, but it does bother some people, and there's really no reason to go out of your way and say it. So I don't see what is to be gained by using it. It shouldn't have to be an issue, but as always there are people who say it just to be crude and others who get righteous about it.
Pannic

Pretty boring word to discuss. There are words that would make much more interesting topics of conversation.

Like sadism. The word refers to deriving pleasure from inflicting pain on others. The word comes from the Marquis de Sade, a rather controversial writer/philosopher/pornographer.

I'd rather discuss that than a bundle of sticks.
Mungojerrie_rt

Pannic wrote:
...a bundle of sticks.

Exactly what I was going to say.
Jman383

I cringe at the word too. It's funny though, as a gay person, the term has quite a few different meanings in our own "culture".

Usually, when a gay person uses the term, they mean it either as a joke (referring to ALL gay men), or someone (a guy) who basically IS a girl.

For example, if I were to say, "I can't stand faggots. They give us a bad name." I'm clearly referring to the uberly feminine men who are obnoxious and trashy.

With that said, I try my best NEVER to use the word, as I think putting it out there is just BEGGING for biggots to use it against us. I know plenty of people who think that being "afraid" of a name is a just a sign of weakness and insecurity, but I don't see it as fear, so much as a matter of respect.

One thing that DID piss me off, of course, is that I had a girl call me a faggot playfully, and when I told her not to call me that, even if it was jokingly, she said, "No, it's okay, I'm bisexual."

My face turned to this: Shocked and we got into a HUGE argument on the topic.
Beagle On Stage

I once saw a no smoking sign that showed the silhouette of a human head with a dangly pink earring, smoking a cigarette, with the caption, NO FAGS.
fjays

I don't really hate the word, I just dislike it.

But a word I do detest: Poofta. Ergh.. I hate it. So disrespectful, yuck yuck.
LaurelDP

I have no strong feelings about the word "fag".
"Faggot" still bothers the hell out of me, though.
Matthew

Pannic wrote:
I'd rather discuss that than a bundle of sticks.


Playing devil's advocate [hehe], of course there is the train of thought that the holocaust of homosexuals by the church by massive group burnings (as sticks) provides an interesting cultural etymology.
Jman383

^^ Duhz.
Beagle On Stage

/\ Sounds to me like someone thought that up after the fact and started spreading it around falsely. If it were true, witches and heretics would be called fags long before gays were.
dolbinau

I love the word: Faggotry.

USE:

"OMG that is SUCH faggotry right thar".

RE: Faggot I agree with the first definition on urban dictionary

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=faggot

I'd rather it be not used than used, however.
Beagle On Stage

Mama Rose wrote:
The word is just as bad as nigger, if you ask me. I can't think of anything more degrading. I don't think that it's appropriate even for gay people to say it.


If it's inappropriate to say, even member of those respective communities should not say it. I know someone is just going to shoot back that it's okay for them because it is empowering, but the truth is that any use of a word helps make society accustomed to it, and when people become comfortable hearing the word, they will say it. People who want to hold a sociopolitical stance MUST either be an active part of the solution, or shut up.
Jman383

Beagle On Stage wrote:
Mama Rose wrote:
The word is just as bad as nigger, if you ask me. I can't think of anything more degrading. I don't think that it's appropriate even for gay people to say it.


If it's inappropriate to say, even member of those respective communities should not say it. I know someone is just going to shoot back that it's okay for them because it is empowering, but the truth is that any use of a word helps make society accustomed to it, and when people become comfortable hearing the word, they will say it. People who want to hold a sociopolitical stance MUST either be an active part of the solution, or shut up.


I agree with this. No one should say it. It doesn't mean it will disappear, but like I said, if people feel the need to say it for "positive reasons", it's just begging for biggots to use it as well.
nabla

I find that i hear "fag" used a lot more than "faggot", although they're basically the same thing anyway.
I try not to use it because i know how hurtful it can be in certain contexts. But at the same time i know a lot of gays who use it pretty casually, it's that whole reclaiming it in a post-modern way thing
Quique

It really depends on how it's said but, generally, I find that most people who use it do so in an angry, resentful, or disgusted manner. That bothers me more than just hearing someone say it in jest.

I have a potty mouth, though mostly when nobody's around. I am far more considerate in the company of others.

I really like "c*nt." I don't go around saying it publicly but the reactions from others that have heard me say it really amuse me. I guess I just don't understand what is so shocking about it. Nothing stops people in their tracks or makes their jaws drop harder than that one little four letter word. Silly.
wicked_boy

IMO all words are just words... It's just the context in what they are used that makes them offensive.
Catherine

Yakko wrote:
Why why would we talk about a term for someone who's gay or what the British call a cigerite?


We don't call a cigarette a faggot. We call a cigarette a fag. =]

Yeah, we hardly use the word in that sense over here. I don't condone the use of it, it's pretty bad, but you hardly ever hear it.
christinadaae

Quique wrote:


I really like "c*nt." I don't go around saying it publicly but the reactions from others that have heard me say it really amuse me. I guess I just don't understand what is so shocking about it. Nothing stops people in their tracks or makes their jaws drop harder than that one little four letter word. Silly.


I really like that word too.
BroadwayBeast

^ I'll 3rd that one!
shakalakababy

I'll 4th it!

This f word makes me uncomfortable. It just brings to mind Matthew Shepard and other hate crimes.
nabla

fjays wrote:
I don't really hate the word, I just dislike it.

But a word I do detest: Poofta. Ergh.. I hate it. So disrespectful, yuck yuck.

I'll second this because somebody yelled it at me from a car today (second time in a month wtf? Am I absent mindedly rolling myself in glitter before i go out?) and it did not feel good.
dolbinau

I'm curious how they COULD tell..what are you wearing? lol.
Beagle On Stage

nabla wrote:
I'll second this because somebody yelled it at me from a car today (second time in a month wtf? Am I absent mindedly rolling myself in glitter before i go out?)


Critically look at your Ascot pics in the costume thread.
nabla

Ok that was meant as a semi-humourous side note (fail). I'm well aware that I come across as a total flamer, and i'm not ashamed of it, I don't think that's a bad thing. My main point is that some peoples behaviour is just plain wrong and unacceptable.
Matthew

Someone vulgarly yelled "STRAIGHT!" at my face as I was walking down the street. I was confused.
dolbinau

Matthew wrote:
Someone vulgarly yelled "STRAIGHT!" at my face as I was walking down the street. I was confused.


lol..I'll give you that Razz.
Beagle On Stage

Matthew wrote:
Someone vulgarly yelled "STRAIGHT!" at my face as I was walking down the street. I was confused.


What a bunch of ignorant heterophobes.
And All That Jazz

I hate that word. I hate the word "retard" more. I hear people say "that's retarded" or "that's gay" when they don't agree with something. Absolutely hate it.
Beagle On Stage

"Retarded" used in that context, however insensitive it may be, can be correct.
High-baritonne

And it also can show ignorance, prejudice and disrespect towards those who actually are retarded.

I don't mind if anybody call me gay, because it's true. But when people use it against each other, like here in Norway where the phrase "din jævla homo!", which means "you god damn homo!" is enough to make me kick them out of class, or whichever facility I'm in.
Beagle On Stage

High-baritonne wrote:
And it also can show ignorance, prejudice and disrespect towards those who actually are retarded.


Well like I said. It's insensitive, but it isn't in the same category as "that's gay," where it's just used as a slam in an unrelated situation.
High-baritonne

Of course not, that's why I used the "can" in the sentence. I know that people might be using the phrase "retarded" correct, my only concern is that most people who use the word doesn't know why, and therefor generally harass those who in fact are retarded.
Monsieur D'Arque

If it's such a bad word, and I admit that it is, let's ALL stop saying it, gays and straights.

The episode of South Park in which Mr. Garrison over-embraces his right as a gay man to say "fag" is a prime example of what I mean by this.
actor

Beagle On Stage wrote:
I don't personally view it as obscene, but it does bother some people, and there's really no reason to go out of your way and say it. So I don't see what is to be gained by using it. It shouldn't have to be an issue, but as always there are people who say it just to be crude and others who get righteous about it.


You don't think that referring to gay people as "something which should be burned" is obscene?
Beagle On Stage

actor wrote:
You don't think that referring to gay people as "something which should be burned" is obscene?


As I have said and most sources have always agreed on, it's unlikely that the slang for gays is descended from the legitimate word. Even if it did, you're editorializing the original word.
Brother Marvin Hinten, S.

Beagle On Stage wrote:
actor wrote:
You don't think that referring to gay people as "something which should be burned" is obscene?


As I have said and most sources have always agreed on, it's unlikely that the slang for gays is descended from the slang for cigarettes.
'

No, much more likely that the "something which should be burned" refers not to homosexuals burned at the stake as heretics, but homosexuals who were dismissed by their towns and villages as "deviants" and who were burned as kindling ('faggots') before the actual heretics.
Beagle On Stage

I edited my post to include the kindling definition in addition to the cigarette slang.

Though maybe it does come from cigarette. Something three inches long that goes in your mouth. Rolling Eyes
Brother Marvin Hinten, S.

Editorializing the word or not, it's still a possible origin for the use of the word in connection to homosexuals.
actor

It has nothing to do with cigarettes Beagle (and that's a fag, not faggot).

A "faggot" is a "bundle of sticks for burning," refering to burning at the stake.
Beagle On Stage

You either didn't read the edited version of my post, or didn't want to acknowledge it.
actor

Well where else would the word come from? Did they just pull it out of their asses? Unless they're refering to gay people as meatballs Confused
Beagle On Stage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

Three or four alternatives right there. Though, of course, you'll stick with the one that lets you feel like a martyr.
actor

Rolling Eyes
wicked_boy

A point I'd like to make:

The group being discriminated will most of them insist that there's a major problem. However the "non - discriminates" (who don't discriminate, in this case straight people who aren't homophobic) will most of the time insist that the problem is getting better.

Well, that's not exactly the word's I'm looking for and the point I'm trying to make, but at 11 o'clock at night, that's the best you're gonna get from me... d'oh!

People can expand on it and help me make sense of it / try to get my words out.
Beagle On Stage

wicked_boy wrote:
The group being discriminated will most of them insist that there's a major problem. However the "non - discriminates" (who don't discriminate, in this case straight people who aren't homophobic) will most of the time insist that the problem is getting better.

Well, that's not exactly the word's I'm looking for and the point I'm trying to make, but at 11 o'clock at night, that's the best you're gonna get from me... d'oh!


Something along the lines of, the targets see themselves as continuing to be martyred while others see more objectively?
dolbinau

actor wrote:
Well where else would the word come from? Did they just pull it out of their asses? Unless they're refering to gay people as meatballs Confused


I don't think it necessarily matters that much where the word comes from, because I don't think anyone who uses the word today would explicitly be thinking "you deserve to be burned at the stake" or whatever...

The only thing I think is offensive about it is because it is used in an offensive way... I think looking deeper into the origins of the word is taking it a little too far considering how the word is used today.
High-baritonne

agreed! If we should stick to what everything meant before, then why should not everyone be happy to say; "Hey, I'm gay!"

Did gay came from the old meaning it has in "Glitter and be Gay" or "I Feel Pretty"?
Beagle On Stage

Quote:
Did gay came from the old meaning it has in "Glitter and be Gay" or "I Feel Pretty"?


Apparently, anything referring to homosexuality has a basis in being burned at the stake, so I'm guessing not.
High-baritonne

My point exactly.
wicked_boy

Beagle On Stage wrote:
wicked_boy wrote:
The group being discriminated will most of them insist that there's a major problem. However the "non - discriminates" (who don't discriminate, in this case straight people who aren't homophobic) will most of the time insist that the problem is getting better.

Well, that's not exactly the word's I'm looking for and the point I'm trying to make, but at 11 o'clock at night, that's the best you're gonna get from me... d'oh!


Something along the lines of, the targets see themselves as continuing to be martyred while others see more objectively?


You hit the nail. Smile
LaurelDP

So... did anyone see/is anyone watching South Park this week?

Heh, what timing.
       Musicals.Net Forums -> The MdN Social Club
Page 1 of 1