lottielou22
|
CamelotI have seen 2 stage versions of Camelot plus the film of the stage version with Richard Harris (who, btw, was way too old to be Arthur) and none of them have had Morgan LeFay in them, besides mentioning her once. But I have read the name on character lists and seen a picture of the character in the album cover of my mom's record from the original cast. So, what exactly did she do in the story??
Also, do you think that so that there can be more female leads in the show, that Mordred can instead be Morgan Le Fay??
|
Pannic
|
There was a number in the original production called "The Persuasion," in which Mordred bribes Morgan LeFay with candy to trap Arthur in invisible walls, so he cannot return to the castle in time.
I believe that Lerner later cut the number, and replaced it with a conversation between Arthur and Mordred in the woods, where Arthur, angry, goes off hunting for the rest of the night.
|
Sweeney Hyde
|
Re: Camelot | lottielou22 wrote: | | Richard Harris (who, btw, was way too old to be Arthur) |
Them be fightin' words.
|
Apples2for10
|
| Pannic wrote: | | I believe that Lerner later cut the number |
Offhand, do you know why?
|
Sweeney Hyde
|
| Apples2for10 wrote: | | Pannic wrote: | | I believe that Lerner later cut the number |
Offhand, do you know why? |
He always hated it.
It's silly.
|
lottielou22
|
| Quote: | lottielou22 wrote:
Richard Harris (who, btw, was way too old to be Arthur)
Them be fightin' words. |
He was!! his oldness was distracting in its extremity!! I'm not saying that he did a bad job singing and acting-wise, and he was 100 times better as Dumbledore than Michael Gambon (which, I know, is totally unrelated but I felt the need to put that in there.) it's just that, couldn't he have played Merlin??
He was just too old. Okay, fine: In my opinion. 
|
Sweeney Hyde
|
| lottielou22 wrote: | | Quote: | lottielou22 wrote:
Richard Harris (who, btw, was way too old to be Arthur)
Them be fightin' words. |
He was!! his oldness was distracting in its extremity!! I'm not saying that he did a bad job singing and acting-wise, and he was 100 times better as Dumbledore than Michael Gambon (which, I know, is totally unrelated but I felt the need to put that in there.) it's just that, couldn't he have played Merlin??
He was just too old. Okay, fine: In my opinion.
|
He was only 51 when he played it on Broadway!
|
Salome
|
| lottielou22 wrote: | | Quote: | lottielou22 wrote:
Richard Harris (who, btw, was way too old to be Arthur)
Them be fightin' words. |
He was!! his oldness was distracting in its extremity!! I'm not saying that he did a bad job singing and acting-wise, and he was 100 times better as Dumbledore than Michael Gambon (which, I know, is totally unrelated but I felt the need to put that in there.) it's just that, couldn't he have played Merlin??
He was just too old. Okay, fine: In my opinion.
|
arthur ages from 30 to 55 in the course of the play. Harris was PERFECT in the broadway revival and in the film.
Please refrain from saying anything else against him. his Camelot is the reason why I am in theatre today.
and yes the morgan lefay scene and song was really inane and silly and Lerner hated it so..goodbye to it. Its rarely if ever done today with good reason.
|
Melindaisy
|
Camelot was my first show with the group I now perform with... I was in the pit. Our production utilized one actress to portray Morgan Le Fey and Nimue.... but she didn't sing much, only as Nimue, I think.
|
Salome
|
cutting the morgan/mordred song is a step in the right direction but the scene is just as silly as the song.
|
Apples2for10
|
| Salome wrote: | | cutting the morgan/mordred song is a step in the right direction but the scene is just as silly as the song. |
Still, "Seven Deadly Virtues" is pretty good.
|
Salome
|
thats not the song I mean. I mean "The Persuaion" which lerner himself deemed to be crap. and is.
|
lottielou22
|
Okay, I'll stop ragging on Richard Harris.
On another note, I would like to know if you guys think that the character Mordred could be replaced with Morgan LeFay. She's sing the same songs and be in the same scenes as Mordred was. Of course the dialogue would have to change a bit, but, do you think that it could work?? So that there would be more female parts.
I think it would. I'd like y'all's opinions on the matter, though.
|
Sweeney Hyde
|
1. The show is based upon T. H. White's book The Once and Future King. Based upon that...no.
2. A lot of people know the story of King Arthur and the round table and what not...they would know right away that...Morgana Le Fey is not his daughter.
3. A boy seems a bit more wicked and evil concerning the plot, to me anyways.
4. I doubt a woman in this time period would be trying to usurp her father...
|
lottielou22
|
I meant that she would still be his half-sister. She wouldn't change, she'd just take Mordred's place. But, I guess, she wouldn't be completely taking his place because she wouldn't be Arthur's offspring, but she could still feel that she had a right to the throne and she'd still be trying to overthrow Arthur and the round table.
| Quote: | | 3. A boy seems a bit more wicked and evil concerning the plot, to me anyways. |
I think that she could be pretty nasty, although it doesn't sound to me as though she was too bright the way that they originally had her in The Persuasion. her character would be more like Mordred's in her wicked evilness. I've always imagined her as being conniving and bad, anyway.
|
Sweeney Hyde
|
I say no.
To put LeFey in Mordred's place just to have another female part is...well...dumb.
|
Melindaisy
|
Plus, Mordred himself kills Arthur in battle..... so he's kind of essential.
And, as Sweeney says, many people are familiar with the Arthurian legend. So changing any character's part in the legend would unacceptable in my book. It is a shame that Morgan Le Fey's part in the legend isn't well handled in this musical. But one can't change it now.
Anyway, it's kind of like saying that 1776 only has two women's roles in it. Let's change some of the signers to be women's roles - so there would be more women's parts.
|
lottielou22
|
Thanks, guys. I see y'all's point, and it usually bothers me when girls play guys' parts (even the small parts, like girls playing the town boys in SBfSB in this one version I saw) but, kind of what I was getting at was if you were short on guys, it'd be better to make that change than, say, making Sir Lionel female?
Sorry for my persistence, by the way. Should I just drop the subject?
|
Salome
|
dont just drop the subject..drop morgan too. the role is written badly..the song sucks the scene serves no purpose.
Lerner cut it for a reason.
|
OzHair
|
Morgan le Fey was cut!?
Wierd. I've done the show three times in the past ten years (twice as Arthur  ), and every time, "The Persuasion" has been in the librettos we've used. And this was with three different companies, so they weren't just re-using the same dodgy copies every time.
Maybe it's just in the version we get licensed here in Australia?
|
playwrightmo
|
| OzHair wrote: | Morgan le Fey was cut!?
Wierd. I've done the show three times in the past ten years (twice as Arthur ), and every time, "The Persuasion" has been in the librettos we've used. And this was with three different companies, so they weren't just re-using the same dodgy copies every time.
Maybe it's just in the version we get licensed here in Australia? |
I caught about an hour of the semi-staged Licoln Center version that was aired on PBS earlier this week, and they did what I would assume was "The Persuassion" (I've never read the libretto, but it was a spoken "song" where Mordred is trying to convince Morgan to trap Arthur in the woods in exchange for chocolate . . . of course the chocolate was a giant Hershey's bar, which was kind of weird . . .). Of course, Morgan was played by Fran Drechser, so they may have decided to put it back in to give her more stage time.
And while we're on the subject of Morgan/Mordred/Arthur, I have a question about the relationship. In the version that I saw, Mordred kept referring to Morgan as his aunt, but in the liner notes for the OBC, Morgan is called Mordred's mother. From what I understand, Arthur is Morgan's half brother, and Mordred is his son, but Morgan and her husband have raised Mordred, so she would be the only mother figure he's had. And, by the way, Mordred was played wonderfully by Bobby Steggert. For those of you who don't recognize the name, he is probably best known as portraying Sam Grey on the soap opera "All My Children" (or at least that's where I know him from). It was strange, though, because they protrayed Mordred as sort of a Goth cross dresser, complete with a long, dark wig, a leather costume, and high heel-esque boots. Did anybody else see this version? It was a great production, complete with the New York Philharmonic orchestra, and an all-star cast including Marin Mazzie as Genny, and Christopher Lloyd as Pellinore. If you get the chance to see it, I highly recommend it!
|
Salome
|
First off Keeping morgan le Fay in "Camelot" s always a mistake.
2nd..
Arthur's Family..
Arthur has 2 half sisters..Morgan le Fay and Morgause of Orkney.
Morgause seduced arthur and they bore mordred.
Morgna is the other sister..the evil sorceress who stelas excalibur's scabbard so arthur cna once agian be vulnerable in battle.
|
LittleGavroche
|
| playwrightmo wrote: | | OzHair wrote: | Morgan le Fey was cut!?
Wierd. I've done the show three times in the past ten years (twice as Arthur ), and every time, "The Persuasion" has been in the librettos we've used. And this was with three different companies, so they weren't just re-using the same dodgy copies every time.
Maybe it's just in the version we get licensed here in Australia? |
I caught about an hour of the semi-staged Licoln Center version that was aired on PBS earlier this week, and they did what I would assume was "The Persuassion" (I've never read the libretto, but it was a spoken "song" where Mordred is trying to convince Morgan to trap Arthur in the woods in exchange for chocolate . . . of course the chocolate was a giant Hershey's bar, which was kind of weird . . .). Of course, Morgan was played by Fran Drechser, so they may have decided to put it back in to give her more stage time.
And while we're on the subject of Morgan/Mordred/Arthur, I have a question about the relationship. In the version that I saw, Mordred kept referring to Morgan as his aunt, but in the liner notes for the OBC, Morgan is called Mordred's mother. From what I understand, Arthur is Morgan's half brother, and Mordred is his son, but Morgan and her husband have raised Mordred, so she would be the only mother figure he's had. And, by the way, Mordred was played wonderfully by Bobby Steggert. For those of you who don't recognize the name, he is probably best known as portraying Sam Grey on the soap opera "All My Children" (or at least that's where I know him from). It was strange, though, because they protrayed Mordred as sort of a Goth cross dresser, complete with a long, dark wig, a leather costume, and high heel-esque boots. Did anybody else see this version? It was a great production, complete with the New York Philharmonic orchestra, and an all-star cast including Marin Mazzie as Genny, and Christopher Lloyd as Pellinore. If you get the chance to see it, I highly recommend it! |
I caught it as well, and while Bobby Steggert was totally awesome, his costuming I found to be terribly distracting and every five minutes, my dad would look up at the TV and say, "This is nothing like the original." 
Christopher Lloyd was amazing. Gabriel Byrne was eh. He has a pleasant voice, but all of his songs fell a bit flat in the acting department, and I couldn't help but picture him as Professor Bhaer in Little Women...
Guenevere, too, was really great, as was the man portraying Lance, his name escapes me. I found him to be a bit old though, I feel like part of the reason Genny falls for him is that he such a difference from Arthur, even in age. Oh dear, and I absolutely melted for his "If Ever I Would Leave You"
The whole Morgan Le Fay bit was fully kitsch. Which sort of bothered me, as I have this very solid picture of Morgan Le Fay in my mind. And it is far from Fran Drescher and a Hershey bar.
|
playwrightmo
|
Just in case you're not aware, Genny was played by Marin Mazzie. If you haven't heard of her before, and enjoyed her performance, you can also catch her on the Ragtime cast recording as Mother, the 1999 revival of Kiss Me, Kate as Lilli Vanessi/Katharine, and as Clara in the OBC of Passion.
|
