Mistress
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Anthony and Johanna-Happily Ever After?I'd always wondered if those two would stay together long after they eloped. My more morbid and realistic side has overruled the romantic side of me. I think that Anthony would probably abandon her soon after and return to the sea, and Johana would probably become a prostitute or something...what do you guys think?
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Salome
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I agree..there is no happily ever after in that world.
I dont even think they make it to the alter...the site of her father and mother dead on teh floor probably pushed Johanna even further into insanity than she already was.
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Mistress
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I don't know about that one...I mean to her, they were just random dead people, she had no idea they were her real parents, although I agree that seeing any dead bodies will push one over the edge...not to mention the entire scene with meat grinder filled with human body parts...actually I take it back, I could totally see Johana loosing it...especially after almost being killed by her own father, although she didn't know who he was.
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sopranodespair
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I would like to think they'd live happily ever after because they're just trying to get away from it all,but I think that's unlikely. I think Johanna would become insane, and Anthony wouldn't be able to handle it.
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pish123c
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What I love about that ending is that we don't know what happens to them. It has a Tennessee Williams quality to it in the sense that it really just leaves the audience hanging.
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YouGotsToLovett
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No, I don't think they'd live 'happily ever after'. Like everyone else said, she'd end up loosing it.
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Little_Nell
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I think that Johana would slowly become more and more introverted and can imagine her ending up just sitting staring off into space, in her own little world. Meanwhile, Anthony would loyally stay by her side, watching her descend into madness but continuing to adore her in an almost obsessional way. I imagine their future to be quite hopeless as a result of what has gone before.
Cheerful, eh?!
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pish123c
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| Little_Nell wrote: | I think that Johana would slowly become more and more introverted and can imagine her ending up just sitting staring off into space, in her own little world. Meanwhile, Anthony would loyally stay by her side, watching her descend into madness but continuing to adore her in an almost obsessional way. I imagine their future to be quite hopeless as a result of what has gone before.
Cheerful, eh?! |
This seems like the most realistic future for Anthony and Johanna if you ask me. Well done. 
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Joshua
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| pish123c wrote: | | Little_Nell wrote: | I think that Johanna would slowly become more and more introverted and can imagine her ending up just sitting staring off into space, in her own little world. Meanwhile, Anthony would loyally stay by her side, watching her descend into madness but continuing to adore her in an almost obsessional way. I imagine their future to be quite hopeless as a result of what has gone before.
Cheerful, eh?! |
This seems like the most realistic future for Anthony and Johanna if you ask me. Well done. |
Agreed. 
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ConverseSneaker
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| Little_Nell wrote: | I think that Johana would slowly become more and more introverted and can imagine her ending up just sitting staring off into space, in her own little world. Meanwhile, Anthony would loyally stay by her side, watching her descend into madness but continuing to adore her in an almost obsessional way. I imagine their future to be quite hopeless as a result of what has gone before.
Cheerful, eh?! |
I couldn't have said it better myself.
| Mistress wrote: | | I don't know about that one...I mean to her, they were just random dead people, she had no idea they were her real parents, although I agree that seeing any dead bodies will push one over the edge...not to mention the entire scene with meat grinder filled with human body parts...actually I take it back, I could totally see Johana loosing it...especially after almost being killed by her own father, although she didn't know who he was. |
I honestly think Johanna first started to lose it in the asylum. Would she have shot and killed someone if she had never stayed there?
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Little_Nell
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Actually, I feel a fanfic coming on... a very short one, but an idea is brewing nonetheless...! 
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Mistress
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I think it all stems from a need to escape. Johanna eloped with Anthony because she wanted to escape her home and the Judge, and she killed Fogg because because she was so desperate to escae the asylum.
But I do agree that all these events combined (the Judge's unwanted advances, the asylum, all the killing and bodies, nearly being killed herself) piled up to drive an already fragile Johanna over the edge. Maybe she won't necessarily retreat into herself, but I do think she will become more neurotic, nervous, and unstable. Maybe Anthony will grow bored of her and leave before that, maybe not, but nevertheless, I do believe Johanna will end up alone and destitutue and perhaps even unstable, somewhat like her mother.
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ActingDude17
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After the events in Sweeney, they are all each other has left. I don't see them leaving each other anytime soon.
You might say Anthony has his sailing career, but still.
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Pannic
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Well, I, for one, would like to think that at least one good thing could come out of everything that happened... even if it is wishful thinking...
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mercurialasaka
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| Little_Nell wrote: | I think that Johana would slowly become more and more introverted and can imagine her ending up just sitting staring off into space, in her own little world. Meanwhile, Anthony would loyally stay by her side, watching her descend into madness but continuing to adore her in an almost obsessional way. I imagine their future to be quite hopeless as a result of what has gone before.
Cheerful, eh?! |
I think this is the most realistic scenario. Johanna was already a bit crazy to begin with (see the entirity of kiss me if you don't believe me) and I don't think Anthony would ever leave her; he'd probably feel the need to protect her and stay with her even as she became more detatched from the world. Plus I bet he feels somewhat responsible for her wellbeing since she has no one left and he's not the sort of guy to go and abandon someone he cared for like that. There really needs to be a story about this somewhere...if only I had the patience to write it.
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Mistress
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I still think that the hastiness of the elopment would prove to be their undoing. Honestly, I think Anthony would regret it, especially if he had to care for a mentally unstable Johanna, no matter how much he loved her.
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GinnyWeasley201
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In my story, (first of all in this story Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett live)
And Johanna figures out that Todd is her father and actually he tells her. but anyway....
Johanna and Anthony marry and have twin girls, Lucy and Julia. They then move to france. Johanna writes to her father, when Anthony is away. she tells Todd that her marriage is not going at all well.... blah blah blah
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YouGotsToLovett
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| mercurialasaka wrote: | | Little_Nell wrote: | I think that Johana would slowly become more and more introverted and can imagine her ending up just sitting staring off into space, in her own little world. Meanwhile, Anthony would loyally stay by her side, watching her descend into madness but continuing to adore her in an almost obsessional way. I imagine their future to be quite hopeless as a result of what has gone before.
Cheerful, eh?! |
I think this is the most realistic scenario. Johanna was already a bit crazy to begin with (see the entirity of kiss me if you don't believe me) and I don't think Anthony would ever leave her; he'd probably feel the need to protect her and stay with her even as she became more detatched from the world. Plus I bet he feels somewhat responsible for her wellbeing since she has no one left and he's not the sort of guy to go and abandon someone he cared for like that. There really needs to be a story about this somewhere...if only I had the patience to write it. |
I'm sure most of the Anthony/Johanna stories are filled with them being all happy junk >.< I didn't think the movie showed Johanna's 'sanity'.
I would so also, that being the most realistic scenario. Perhaps the years of isolation had made her a bit mad, as well.
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moongoddess82
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Maybe I just take this too seriously because of my background in psychololgy, but using the word "insane" or "mad" to describe any sort of social anomaly really bugs me.
Kiss Me shows a moment of paranoia, or anxiousess (but so does any teenager's over sensitivity to sounds coming from outside when they are alone at home, doing something they know their parents won't allow, who could be coming home any minute, and don't want to get caught). If it was made obvious that the gate sound was in her head, then alright, I might buy "delusional paranoia"- but it's possible that there was a neighbour's gate and Anthony's quick denial of it could simply be horny teenage boy trying to help her "get on with it already" and stop worrying.
I think it may depend on the production, but from what I've seen Johanna never sees the bodies or anyone actually being killed. She may possibly see the beggar woman and judge killed through a hole in the chest, going by the Lansbury/Hearn production (I've seen the revival but I used this production to be certain of what I'm talking about as it is clear on Youtube)... but realistically I can't see a hole showing her that much and neither victim exactly makes a sound that would traumatize someone.
The asylum may have had it's toll on her, no doubt... but we all react to these things differently and I don't think Johanna killing Fogg is necessarily proof that she is no longer of sound mind. She knew by now, having been shown freedom, what "prision" meant and she was desperate to get away from someone who probably beat her, molested her and otherwise made her life a living hell.
Humans are very resiliant and always remember that in many cases, "trauma" is relative... on the outside looking in (as people who have known parental love and had friends), we might believe that the kind of isolation she suffered would be horrible... but for someone who's never known any different, this may not be that traumatizing. The judge did not start seeing her differently until recently, so up till then he was probably a father figure for her who was very strict. He didn't lock her up until he caught her and Anthony.
I think the point of my post is please stop throwing around these types of words and to look at symptoms instead of giving her an illness.
***end rant***
-sorry if this is not in the spirit of the thread
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Little_Nell
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There's no need to rant. Your knowledge would've sufficed and for the most part I found your post very interesting.
Apart from the ranting.
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Sweeney Hyde
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Well, in the "normal" production, and in the script for that matter, Johanna and Anthony enter the bake-house WITH TWO COPS. I've sort of always sort of kept it in the back of my mind that they had been caught. After all, Johanna did kill Jonas Fogg. Anthony has, more or less kidnapped her.
I dunno.
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Lawliet
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I'd like to think so, but I really do doubt its a happily ever after.
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Orestes Fasting
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| Mistress wrote: | I think it all stems from a need to escape. Johanna eloped with Anthony because she wanted to escape her home and the Judge, and she killed Fogg because because she was so desperate to escae the asylum.
But I do agree that all these events combined (the Judge's unwanted advances, the asylum, all the killing and bodies, nearly being killed herself) piled up to drive an already fragile Johanna over the edge. Maybe she won't necessarily retreat into herself, but I do think she will become more neurotic, nervous, and unstable. Maybe Anthony will grow bored of her and leave before that, maybe not, but nevertheless, I do believe Johanna will end up alone and destitutue and perhaps even unstable, somewhat like her mother. |
I agree with the need to escape, but I can't picture Anthony leaving Johanna or growing bored with her; he's sweet and steadfast to a fault, and would probably stay with her even if she did go completely bonkers. I think it would be more likely to happen the other way around: Johanna, having made good her escape, starts to lose interest in Anthony, or starts to see their marriage as one more trap. Anthony, wrapped up in his idealized image of Johanna to the point where he's blind to her actual problems, only wants to help but has no idea what's really wrong.
It always seemed to me that Johanna loved Anthony, or thought she loved him, as a means of escape rather than as a person. But then again, maybe sailing the world and seeing its wonders would keep her from feeling trapped.
(And if we're talking fanfiction, perhaps someone should write a crossover with The Count of Monte Cristo. The time periods are roughly concurrent, and Anthony and Johanna's plan to elope in France and travel the world would mix nicely with the Count's exotic voyages.)
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Mistress
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: | | Mistress wrote: | I think it all stems from a need to escape. Johanna eloped with Anthony because she wanted to escape her home and the Judge, and she killed Fogg because because she was so desperate to escae the asylum.
But I do agree that all these events combined (the Judge's unwanted advances, the asylum, all the killing and bodies, nearly being killed herself) piled up to drive an already fragile Johanna over the edge. Maybe she won't necessarily retreat into herself, but I do think she will become more neurotic, nervous, and unstable. Maybe Anthony will grow bored of her and leave before that, maybe not, but nevertheless, I do believe Johanna will end up alone and destitutue and perhaps even unstable, somewhat like her mother. |
I agree with the need to escape, but I can't picture Anthony leaving Johanna or growing bored with her; he's sweet and steadfast to a fault, and would probably stay with her even if she did go completely bonkers. I think it would be more likely to happen the other way around: Johanna, having made good her escape, starts to lose interest in Anthony, or starts to see their marriage as one more trap. Anthony, wrapped up in his idealized image of Johanna to the point where he's blind to her actual problems, only wants to help but has no idea what's really wrong.
It always seemed to me that Johanna loved Anthony, or thought she loved him, as a means of escape rather than as a person. But then again, maybe sailing the world and seeing its wonders would keep her from feeling trapped.
(And if we're talking fanfiction, perhaps someone should write a crossover with The Count of Monte Cristo. The time periods are roughly concurrent, and Anthony and Johanna's plan to elope in France and travel the world would mix nicely with the Count's exotic voyages.) |
Gaaah! I keep on changing my mind here. Now I think that you're right, that Johanna is more likely to leave Anthony than the other way around. I still believe that perhaps, she won't be completely insane but definitely a tad unstable. I'm still fighting with myself over whether she'll leave Anthony or stay with him...part of me says yes...she can't be contained for very long and will feel imprisoned by the marriage, but the other half of me says that she's as devoted to Anthony as he is to her, and she won't want to leave the comfort he provides her...and there's always the fact that she's only 15, and he supposed to be what? 30? That's a bit steep for a good marriage if you ask me.
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